Real Estate Crash thread

[XXX-er]

There seems to be a lot of mingling of 'workers' vs 'business owners' going on here.

It's easy to get rich as a developer (and easy to go broke). Same goes for running a fleet of skilled tradesmen doing plumbing/electrical/HVAC etc.

An employee carpenter that doesn't transition to PM or GC isn't going to break whatever their market pays. Around here that means sub-100k.

this^^ and so amortise the 200K-300k salary per year with the going broke in a down turn

And like any job you also have to wana do it and be good at it, my favorite is the guy who sez " hey look how much teachers make ( its not bad up here ) and all the time they get off to which i reply " yeah but you actualy have to take care of / teach kids would you want to take care of your kids all day ?

[The AD]

" yeah but you actualy have to take care of / teach kids would you want to take care of your kids all day ?

Seriously. Getting summers off doesn't offset that in my book. Kudos to teachers.

[Core Shot]

I take it you mean the lack of context is sad, right?

It needs no context.

All time low interest in buying a house. That’s fucked up. A steady three or five percent appreciation is one thing. Thirty plus percent is ridiculous.

There are non dentists in this world that might like to own a home.

Worker bees need housing.

[Bunion 2020]

when its too cold to pour concrete

And when is that?

I have watched sites pour at -10 F after burning thousands of dollars on diesel for ground heaters and then thousands more on labor to manage concrete blankets and that doesn't include the snow management.

There is a company here that was founded for the purpose of sewing these huge heavy duty tarps with pick points so that you lay them down prior to a storm and at the end you shovel the snow around the edges and hoist them with a tower crane or grade-all to remove as much as possible in one lift. They are doing very well.

Most sites I work around will frame in openings with 2x4s and rhino-hide until they can get the place dried in.

No wonder they are getting $600-1000.00 p/sq ft completed. Building custom homes at 8500' is quite the art.

Of course the entire pyramid could collapse at any point although the area weathered the 2007 crash pretty well.

[Ted Striker]

if the owner is doing the work whats the difference?

Scale, buying power, and markups.

[Mustonen]

There seems to be a lot of mingling of 'workers' vs 'business owners' going on here.

It's easy to get rich as a developer (and easy to go broke). Same goes for running a fleet of skilled tradesmen doing plumbing/electrical/HVAC etc.

An employee carpenter that doesn't transition to PM or GC isn't going to break whatever their market pays. Around here that means sub-100k.

Right. Here too. Plus $200k gross as a contractor/business owner is a lot different than $200k gross as a W2 employee who also has benefits.

I brought it up because it was stated earlier in this thread that in this market much less than $100k and it’s damn hard to afford a reasonable house in a place you want to live, and to actually be comfortable it’s closer to $200k. And then we started talking about how more kids should look into trades.

Look at median home price, and then look at the average electrician salary of under $60k/year. And then tell me why my kid shouldn’t set their sights on engineering or medicine or even business.

[XXX-er]

And when is that?

I have watched sites pour at -10 F after burning thousands of dollars on diesel for ground heaters and then thousands more on labor to manage concrete blankets and that doesn't include the snow management.

There is a company here that was founded for the purpose of sewing these huge heavy duty tarps with pick points so that you lay them down prior to a storm and at the end you shovel the snow around the edges and hoist them with a tower crane or grade-all to remove as much as possible in one lift. They are doing very well.

Most sites I work around will frame in openings with 2x4s and rhino-hide until they can get the place dried in.

No wonder they are getting $600-1000.00 p/sq ft completed. Building custom homes at 8500' is quite the art.

Of course the entire pyramid could collapse at any point although the area weathered the 2007 crash pretty well.

that should read " too cold to want to pour concrete instead of going skiing " I know you can deal with cold but it costs more and its you know ... cold

if the concrete isnt poured before it gets cold it won't be until spring

[old_newguy]

Lots of money to be made in the trades at the moment.

Rewind to 2008-2011 when the millennials graduated and things weren’t so nice looking.

I worked in construction for a few years. No way I would tell a female kid to go enter into that world of misogyny and racism if they had even half a brain.

[Skidog]

Not that these jobs are out there by the dozens (maybe they are), but I know my processors husband who does commercial building estimates (as in building it from the ground up) makes a solid $200k and there is no physical labor involved.
The GC's in my town are making waaay more than $200k, but their jobs are a big PITA.
There are so many careers that pay big, it is to bad the guidance counselors do such a shit job of exposing kids to everything that is out there. Maybe a new class for 10th graders, "Careers and Your Place in Them".

That takes away from the big business that is govt student loans though.

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[XXX-er]

I've seen a couple of girls on roofing crews localy

my tennants daughter was working at the tire shop and she is a 120lb wisp of a gal, which i mentioned to the manger who said well yeah but she got tough fighting with her brothers

[Skidog]

And when is that?

I have watched sites pour at -10 F after burning thousands of dollars on diesel for ground heaters and then thousands more on labor to manage concrete blankets and that doesn't include the snow management.

There is a company here that was founded for the purpose of sewing these huge heavy duty tarps with pick points so that you lay them down prior to a storm and at the end you shovel the snow around the edges and hoist them with a tower crane or grade-all to remove as much as possible in one lift. They are doing very well.

Most sites I work around will frame in openings with 2x4s and rhino-hide until they can get the place dried in.

No wonder they are getting $600-1000.00 p/sq ft completed. Building custom homes at 8500' is quite the art.

Of course the entire pyramid could collapse at any point although the area weathered the 2007 crash pretty well.

I think I may have mentioned it earlier, but bro in law deals with it all the time.

Oh yeah we need to dry this in until we can get permits for rest of build cause we need the space. Ok....$75k for a wall. 2 months later $20k to remove it and he re sells most of the material.

Just came back from a store Reno job with a truckload of wood they were going to simply toss. Ahhh nope, take that shit home. We are lucky my family has a 10k sq ft barn for storage.

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[Bunion 2020]

yeah but she got tough fighting with her brothers

Truer words never spoken.

[Mustonen]

That takes away from the big business that is govt student loans though.

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That certainly employs some people. I think that’s a good thing. But nobody’s getting rich off of it and the government doesn’t make a profit on those. I think your cynicism, while appropriate, is misdirected.

[old_newguy]

Bunion, are you doing erosion control or something?

[climberevan]

And when is that?

I have watched sites pour at -10 F after burning thousands of dollars on diesel for ground heaters and then thousands more on labor to manage concrete blankets and that doesn't include the snow management. .

I built a house in Gunnison in 2005 or 6 and it was -20F the morning we poured the foundation. IIRC the ground heater was about $1500/day, and we'd been running it for like 10 days already to even be able to dig. The mud was freezing so fast that the top of the forms would be slushy before we could get blankets back on it. When we framed it we had to keep our compressor inside of a job box with a space to heater covered with blankets to keep it running. Etc, etc.

That's when I learned that people are crazy. The homeowners couldn't wait a few months for things to get more reasonable.

(That house was like the 5th one those people had had built and they said it was the first one without a floor squeak anywhere. I was pretty proud of that.)

[Ted Striker]

Any conversation of student loans has to include marketability of said education. Taking on a six figure debt to be able to aptly present treatise on Chaucer, and how his work was informed by Saxon and old English rather than French, is not a good idea.

[4matic]

Any conversation of student loans has to include marketability of said education. Taking on a six figure debt to be able to aptly present treatise on Chaucer, and how his work was informed by Saxon and old English rather than French, is not a good idea.

Because the arts are for losers.

[skiballs]

That certainly employs some people. I think that’s a good thing. But nobody’s getting rich off of it and the government doesn’t make a profit on those. I think your cynicism, while appropriate, is misdirected.

Oh really, the guy that started Salle Mae has a golf course that only a few people play. It’s a very nice track.


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[m2711c]

[liv2ski]

Because the arts are for losers.

No, because the arts are for people that live in a country that pays their education or here with Bank of Dad to cover it. Going into debt is dumb for a liberal or fine arts education.

[Ted Striker]

Because the arts are for losers.

Well, that makes me a loser.

[Buster Highmen]

Look at median home price, and then look at the average electrician salary of under $60k/year. And then tell me why my kid shouldn’t set their sights on engineering or medicine or even business.

Entry level journey folks are making that in the Puget Sound area. Certified electrician are making in excess of $200k/year here. One of the local tv stations did a story on this last year, interviewing electrical contractors who can't get enough electricians.

[fastfred]

Because the arts are for losers.

yeh totally realized that at one point so I grabbed a hammer and started swinging so people didn't think I was a pussy

other than that, lots of good comments in the past page or three, plenty I could quote for there stellar thoughts

why are jobs more dangerous in colorado? They are. As said, no licensing, no oversite, building costs are already stupid here and always have been so consumers are desperate to cut costs anywhere, so its labor, pretty much all the crews you see building in this state have no workers comp policy, none, so there is no concern for safety, it's a free for all, it blows my mind, but when I deep throat 50k in insurance costs a year that cuts into profit and I can't compete with uninsured companies I got a dozen guys all working as employees not this sub contractor employee 1099 bullshit that 80% of colorado contractors use

I was looking at a structural issue at a condo buildling the other day and we were in a unit someone was doing work in, I gladly pointed out to the new big time contractor kid that all the drywall he removed had asbestos in it, next thing I realize is I remodeled the place years ago, dumb me, they don't call it dope for nothing, the owners kept asking for quotes and never took me up on them, finally found a cheap guy to demo asbestos for them

the bs about your body falling apart at 40 because you work in the trades is dog shit, sure you see fat old tradesman but none of them took care of their bodies to begin with, they eat dog shit every day don't streatch and don't care drink heavily to numb the physical and metal pain but the same is true for office jockies look at your co workers just cause your an above average tgr poster you gotta remember that most people are a train wreck by 40 no matter what they do because pills and modern medicine will fix anything and you can treat your body like shit

As for me, I think about going back to work someday, but I'm a pussy now, it's kind of scary, to actually have to work, I haven't done any real work in almost ten years now, I just get mad when I run out of printer ink, I sit a computer for 3-4 hrs a day and drive around and talk and point my finger all day and watch tens of thousands of dollars evaporate every week I do like to lift two sheets of 5/8 drywall at a time once in awhile load and unload them my fear is turning into a complete soft handed artist type

[glademaster]

We got old skiing carpenters up here, not much building done when its too cold to pour concrete so go skiing and they can build their own ski cabins

It's never too cold to pour concrete, it just depends on how much you're willing to spend to do it.

[Buster Highmen]

Going into debt is dumb for a liberal arts education.

I'm always surprised by these claims.

Virtually everything the current tech or bio industries relies on came out of physics, bio, chemistry and math, liberal arts majors if there are any.

That said, my son wants to be a physicist, but is simultaneously working on plans to get an electricians license.

It's great to do art, but it usually requires being part of a large organization or bureaucracy which can suck. Having a trade like plumbing or electrical makes it easier to be solo, mobile or in a small business.