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Thread: Real Estate Crash thread
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01-26-2022, 10:15 PM #19701
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01-26-2022, 10:24 PM #19702
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01-26-2022, 10:28 PM #19703Hucked to flat once
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I just don't see how little hotels can operate in areas zoned residential. Many people talk about private property rights regarding STRs. AirBB didn't exist when I bought my single family home in a residentially zoned area. Now there are three (out of state owners) out of seven houses on my little street that are STRs. I don't really like it. Not the end of the world but at the same time, other commercial entities that wouldn't cause more issues are not allowed. I'm curious when my residentially zoned property rights will be under consideration to protect actual zoning law enforcement in an R7 historic district. I can't paint my house certain colors because of historic contribution considerations but an out-of-state investor can operate commercial business in an area that never had a hotel nor historically consisted of anything but single family dwellings. I guess it's time to fire up the typewriter and get some letters into the city council...or at least fire something up. See you in the spirit world Fred.
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01-26-2022, 10:31 PM #19704
I managed to get a well drilled on my lot last week at 11,000 ft in Park County CO right at 6 months after having my septic design and permit in hand. I made initial contact with my driller last April and stayed in periodic contact with him. I figured he would not be able to get to us until spring or even later, but he called last week and said he would be there the next day. From what I gather six months is a very good turnaround in todays climate. I was about 1/12 on drillers who would even consider drilling in our area. The few who got back to me said we were 30-min to 2 hours away and they had all the work they could handle within 20 minutes of where they are based so they were not interested.
Since 2019 only a few more than 1/3 of well permits issued by the state in our area have been logged with the state as constructed.
We have a solid producing well that will produce 10-15 gallons per min at 100 ft deep.
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01-26-2022, 10:37 PM #19705
STR owners want their cake and to eat yours too and not pay for the cake. All these people coming into Touron Town USA are putting a strain on the system. The way cities deal with these Tourons is by putting a tax on things like hotels, motels, rental cars and in some cases sporting events. So why should STR owners not put some skin in the game? The way I see it, is these Tourons come into Touron Town USA and use the public services. They certainly drive on the roads and create traffic, pollution and other touron trash that needs to be dealt with. Just because they spend a few hundred bucks on food and beverage and another few hundred bucks for recreational activities, doesn't mean that can't be taxed a few bucks to help maintain those services while staying in an STR instead of a hotel/motel.
Taxes solve all sorts of problems. The people who avoid paying taxes create all sorts of problems for those of us who end up picking up the tab."We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch
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01-26-2022, 10:38 PM #19706
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01-26-2022, 10:41 PM #19707Hucked to flat once
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01-26-2022, 11:13 PM #19708
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01-27-2022, 06:22 AM #19709Registered User
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Real Estate Crash thread
I don’t have a problem with taxing STR’s.
I just think the tax, should be the same as Hotels.
I also think a 100 room Hotel should pay a much larger licensing fee, than a guy that rents out a studio occasionally.
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01-27-2022, 07:05 AM #19710Registered User
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In many places they already are taxes like hotels with lodging tax, I have even said many times that STRs should be taxed more for lodging.
Once again, I wasn't advocating against the lodging tax, I was talking about property taxes which is what the article I linked was about. Taxing STR properties as commercial is a little more complex than a lodging tax. It can have a lot of unintended negative consequences.
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01-27-2022, 07:25 AM #19711
What are we fighting about again? So yeah, the fact that the Federal Government has been ineffectual my entire life seems like an excuse for the haves to keep on keepin' on.
That linked article basically says, "wah...it might be difficult" as the negatives. Are you guys against zoning? Ever had a municipality approach a gravel pit in your back yard? The follow the rules is difficult and might cost me money is complaint of every half ass business everywhere. Put on your big boy pants and realize that regulatory volatility has been part of the game forever.
Double check me on this but in Colorado isn't the Lodging Tax statutorily required to go back into that industry for marketing and such, can't go to the general fund?
Anecdotally, these are the type of events that are actually happening. 2 young second year teachers get there rented condo (shared) sold out from under them for an STR. They couch surfed for a bit but then both throw in the towel and bounced.
Six figure jobs are not getting filled because there is a rental housing shortage at any price. Families do not want to move to town and take a flier an a million dollar place.
The cost of housing is having this circular effect where people like me have to bid jobs so high in order to cover our labor costs that the resulting product is for the wealthy only.
NIMNY Second Homos and Wealthy WFHrs fight against every higher density project AKA apartment buildings whilst the puffy coat do gooder crowd argues that families of four at 80% median income are entitled to quartz counters and a heated garage. You get deed resticted properties with snowmobiles and RVs outside.
Its fucked. Its fucked everywhere. If you are OK with that and you are just trying to get yours, at least just own it. Its not my style. I don't like to see people hurting. Dysfunction has massive side effects including mental health.
I really think some of the haters don't even know what community is. They don't know what a friendly neighbor is. They don't know how to wave and smile. They don't even know how to say thank you when you pull them out of the ditch. They are losing touch with being human so they have invented a new game called "Look at me with my toys and free time and World Class Mountain Life". Its all they know. But they ain't happy.
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01-27-2022, 07:26 AM #19712It can have a lot of unintended negative consequences.
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01-27-2022, 07:51 AM #19713Registered User
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01-27-2022, 07:51 AM #19714
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01-27-2022, 08:01 AM #19715Hucked to flat once
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01-27-2022, 08:02 AM #19716
sure seems bunny has his finger on the pulse of most everything
cept live females"When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
"I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
"THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
"I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno
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01-27-2022, 08:02 AM #19717
Dude you are as close to an online friend as I have around here so I'm not trying to bust your balls. I sit in all kinds of meetings, am the Treasurer of my Water District and President of my HOA.
Not once has anyone been able to present an argument about treating STRs as a commercial entity other than, it is bad for my pocket book. Your shtick is no different. You trotted out an article touting the challenges that had no challenges.
I'm no public policy expert but I've been around the block enough times with mountain town politics to know the game. These big fish in a little pond put up just enough of a fight that they wear down the opposition.
I'm pretty stubborn but I'm pretty open to changing my mind. The fact that the government has historically been pretty shitty at financial management is a weak sauce argument against any change in tax policy.
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01-27-2022, 08:05 AM #19718
I'd say STR's are fine to treat as commercial if they're used as STR's more than 50% of the year. You may also want to put occupied vs. STR days to force some level of adherence rather than letting it sit empty midweek, as people would try to game that pretty quick. Enforcement would be difficult, but likely not impossible.
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01-27-2022, 08:06 AM #19719Registered User
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I don't own either of those, nor do I have a STR property, or a trust fund. I'm just a guy living in one of the most expensive areas in the US trying to get by with a full time job, and a couple of side hustles.
Maybe I'm effected by the shit we are talking about a lot more than some dipshit boomer in CT who is salty because he had to cancel his 6th ski trip to Italy because of the inconveniences presented by a global pandemic. So instead he tries to stir up shit on internet forums to get attention because no one will pay attention to him IRL.
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01-27-2022, 08:16 AM #19720
Foggy_Goggles is making a lot of sense.
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01-27-2022, 08:21 AM #19721Registered User
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I'm just saying that charging commercial property taxes on residential properties because they are rented out as STRs is a slippery slope. Rezoning a property is a pretty big deal to the bank who holds the note on that property. (That was in the article). It also probably isn't a small amount of paperwork for the city or county to completely rezone a shitload of properties interspersed throughout residential neighborhoods.
Where do you draw the line? how many days can someone rent their place out before their entire property is completely rezoned? Why aren't LTRs taxed as commercial? etc etc. Lodging taxes are a far simpler way to go about it, and that's already being done.
Would it be nice if everything went back to where it was before internet sites allowed people to rent out their homes more easily? Sure, those were the good old days when my broke ass could still afford a little ski vacation to another town every once in a while. But you can't tax us back to the good old days. You'll just raise the bar and only the really rich people will be able to visit your town for more than a day trip.
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01-27-2022, 08:21 AM #19722
Oh no, that was going to be my first ski trip to Italy.
Glad you used the word hustle, before I had to.
I really cant believe that, as mentioned, little commercial hotels have been allowed to operate in zoned residential neighborhoods without a fight from town councils and mayors, but, to be cynical , shows us how much they are owned.
But, I'm part of that problem, too, because in both of those month stays in Italy I Airbnb'd a nice apartment a local middle class person could have lived in year round. It was a good deal, both times.
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01-27-2022, 08:26 AM #19723
im kinda surprised the bbi scholarship of worthy maggots foundation
didnt considers you in the awarding of this years goin to ski yurp recipients"When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
"I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
"THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
"I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno
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01-27-2022, 08:33 AM #19724
No, you see, if you stop the STR thing, it will revert back to the housing economy that existed just a dozen years ago, when condo owners rented long term (usually six months in ski towns) or, short term would be a month or two, like the two places I rented in Summit that don't exist on my market anymore. Still not addressing the ski industry worker issue fully, but, it would help a lot. And, trust me, my landlords at the time were making out ok, especially considering the age of the places.
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01-27-2022, 08:36 AM #19725
Thanks for the answer. I'll respond to that tonight but the short answer is that it is actually not that hard. The homeowner declares the # of days that they rented (less that 30) and the assessor enters that into the system.
Re: loans and zoning If you are in violations of terms and agreements that you already entering into, tough shit. My fixed income homie say the mortgage market loves STRs as in provides an income stream other than your paycheck. They know what up, they invented the game. They ain't gonna bite off their own nose. "Wanna Cookie" as they say. Nobody's portfollio likes OREOS.
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