Real Estate Crash thread

[Mustonen]

Good point. Someone who is in the office, assuming the boss is there too, will have a definite leg up on the brownie nose points. Assuming they want to climb the ladder and can actually brown nose the boss.

And assuming they aren’t a weirdo.

Which is probably why WFH is working so great for McPhee. ETA:

Seriously, though, face time breeds trust and rapport, brownie points notwithstanding. You can do it without being in person but it’s harder and can depend heavily on the other person.

[dunfree]

the crippling fear of change reeks in here

millenials always get mad when you tell them their reinvention of the wheel ain’t new.p, and more than half of this wfh shit is pretending this shits new.

And if your zoom meetings suck it’s because your corporate culture sucks and in person meetings probably sucked too.

[skaredshtles]

He's under contract in Dallas for $600k, so he'll be coming out ahead.

I don't think he is. Although maybe Dallas is equally shit-holey to where he's coming from?

[skaredshtles]

millenials always get mad when you tell them their reinvention of the wheel ain’t new

And Boomers get mad when you tell them progress will keep... progressing, regardless of whether or not they trust "The Cloud."

[schuss]

My guess is that a lot of you arguing for WFH are somewhat established in your careers, probably late thirties and beyond. You forget your need for socialization and mentoring early in your work life, just to figure it all out. That's still needed, and cant be done on zoom, so you're going to see a return to urban office life for that reason alone, along with young people at that stage love the party scene of a cool city. So, I wouldn't relax and think your perfect life will last forever close to skiing and biking. There's a smarter, younger, more ambitious hire back at the home office who interacts with the boss every day, and they want your job.

Do you realize how kids socialize these days? Minecraft, Fortnite, etc. are much more reliable. Everpresent connection is the norm. In person is great, but plenty of substitutes. As for confidence? Nope, just see the balance sheet benefits, just like with cloud computing. Why pay for facilities when you can outsource the office space cost to your employees and call it a benefit? Why pay city salaries and force hellish commutes when you can pay people less and live in a lakehouse as an exec? It's only the preening egotists who NEED everyone back in the office. Communication capabilities will only improve, not reduce. Just wait for the augmented reality presence stuff to get better.
Shit like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd2GK0qDtRg
Is where we're going. There's plenty of stuff that sticks in-person, but office work? No point except the occasional large design session.

I'd also agree that zoom happy hours suck, but then again work happy hours sucked in person too. Gee, let me pretend to have fun while watching my intake like a hawk. Good times. Why have that bullshit and office stuff when instead you can take the team to a resort every quarter and save money?

[sirbumpsalot]

To be fair, most meetings are worthless.

True, but when you are WFH and there is no impromptu in person meetups....meetings are that much MORE important IMHO.

[skaredshtles]

<snip> when instead you can take the team to a resort every quarter and save money?

...

[Mazderati]

A lot of general rehashing of WFH pros and cons. Of course there are downsides. Do the upsides outweigh or at least balance out the downsides? For most people, yes.

[Toadman]

And Boomers get mad when you tell them progress will keep... progressing, regardless of whether or not they trust "The Cloud."

I have a work colleague who is either the very tail end of the boomer gen or the first of the Gen X crew. He likes to go into the office. He says the internet at home sucks, and it probably does because he's in the hinterland of central Oregon. But some boomers had a hard time adjusting to WFH. The millenials and younger Gen X'ers just ate it up and surprised all the senior mgmt at just how productive everyone can be. Speaking of which, I'm off to one of those awesome video conf. calls!

[dunfree]

And Boomers get mad when you tell them progress will keep... progressing, regardless of whether or not they trust "The Cloud."

Closer to boomer than me, What’s that have to do with the important business* questions no longer being tech shit?

*business meaning making money, not the latest meme stock bullshit.

[Mustonen]

True, but when you are WFH and there is no impromptu in person meetups....meetings are that much MORE important IMHO.

This. All the things that happened by accident at the water cooler need to be a little more deliberate. Even if it’s tedious, it serves a purpose.

So what does the potentially marginal stickiness of WFH have to do with the real estate market this summer? Am I gonna be able to find a house for less than a meeeelion dollars? God I hope so....

[skaredshtles]

Closer to boomer than me, What’s that have to do with the important business* questions no longer being tech shit?

*business meaning making money, not the latest meme stock bullshit.

Come on, man... everyone agrees that *all* the "important business" questions are tech shit.

[365wp]

Just as H-1B restrictions are a great excuse for companies to save money using contractors in other countries, WFH will be a great excuse for companies to save money on office space. If there will be an eventual market downturn due to COVID economics catching up with us, that will add to the lack of demand.

There's a potential disruption here: start a franchise that converts vacant office space into residential living. Corner office? More like corner bedroom, amirite?

[dan_pdx]

I don't know about you guys, but large WFH meetings have become rather worthless. Typically dominated by the rudiest people in the groups and very hard to interrupt since the microphone muxes the dominant voice and without verbal cues, its hard for people to interrupt.

I have discussed this with others in the company and they also agree that little gets done in the meetings and many just decide to not put in their opinion, deferring to a later 1:1 or an email.

Not much solution for our company however since we've been a nationwide mainly remote company for years....but I can see traditional companies wanting in face meetings. Advantage to the Hybrid model IMHO.

On the flip side, my company has had remote workers since pre-pandemic, but the majority (don't know exactly, but maybe >90%) worked in an office. Apparently the remote workers felt like second-class citizens at meetings, as the only people not present in person -- they're loving things now that there's an even playing field. It does suggest there are benefits to in-person presence that might raise challenges in our WFH future, whatever exactly that looks like.

[schuss]

Come on, man... everyone agrees that *all* the "important business" questions are tech shit.

It's memey, but actually true. What industry ISN'T seeing major gains with meaningful tech (not the stupid shit)
Construction - laser levels, 3d printing, sensor meshes on air quality etc., new materials
Manufacturing - 3d printing (metals), rapid prototyping tools, computer design and analysis
Retail - mass customer preference/stocking awareness and adjustment. "check the back" from a smartphone. order for curbside pickup, contactless payments
trucking - autonomous driving is the big one

Everything has an aspect of tech these days.

[MontuckyFried]

You guys are missing the big picture with the WFH issue. It's NOT that WFH is going to go away. It's that companies are going to wise up to the fact that they don't have to pay Silicon Valley wages to their workers who chose to move to Ohio to take advantage of cheaper housing markets.

[Benny Profane]

As opposed to the old system where they did the exact same thing except in a physical office.

It wasn't exactly the same thing. Are you going to tell me that squares talking to each other on a screen is the same as day to day physical interaction? C'mon, man. That's scary to think of, living in a world like that. No lunches, no drinks, no bullshit in the kitchen room. That's how people form relationships. That's not over.

[RoooR]

You guys are missing the big picture with the WFH issue. It's NOT that WFH is going to go away. It's that companies are going to wise up to the fact that they don't have to pay Silicon Valley wages to their workers who chose to move to Ohio to take advantage of cheaper housing markets.

Most companies that have been doing WFH for a while already have regional pay scales and if they're corporate enough it's pretty transparent. The variation isn't as huge as you think. We'll probably pay a good data scientist $115k in LA and like
$90k in Phoenix. Usually these only apply for ICs though. Once you're a director its the same everywhere.

[sirbumpsalot]

You guys are missing the big picture with the WFH issue. It's NOT that WFH is going to go away. It's that companies are going to wise up to the fact that they don't have to pay Silicon Valley wages to their workers who chose to move to Ohio to take advantage of cheaper housing markets.

My company is already doing that. We've had CA new hires ask for a "premium" for living in a high cost state, however we tell them...sorry we are a remote company and we don't bill the customer based on YOUR location. If we did, he'd ask for someone in Alabama...and that person would exist. Over the last year we've hired some people in really interesting and remote places...and they didn't just move there because of the WFH Covid situation....they already had agreements with their previous companies to work remote there, but then yeah....the first to get laid off or pushed into crappy projects due to being away from the home office. I see the trend going that way.

[skaredshtles]

You guys are missing the big picture with the WFH issue. It's NOT that WFH is going to go away. It's that companies are going to wise up to the fact that they don't have to pay Silicon Valley wages to their workers who chose to move to Ohio to take advantage of cheaper housing markets.

Seems like this will be a *good* thing?

[schuss]

You guys are missing the big picture with the WFH issue. It's NOT that WFH is going to go away. It's that companies are going to wise up to the fact that they don't have to pay Silicon Valley wages to their workers who chose to move to Ohio to take advantage of cheaper housing markets.

Honestly, it's a win-win for most people, as the cost of living differences usually smoke any pay differential you're getting, especially when commute time and housing quality are factored in. Regional pay scales have been a thing for decades in big corporate, and most senior management is bonus comp as the big driver, which isn't adjusted but ultimately should put it on them to produce or succeed.

@Benny - how many of your work friends became real friends? I have some, but most are friendly "acquaintances", and in competitive firms you don't have lots of time to sit around and bullshit. It's hard enough to keep my lunch from getting scheduled over as it is. Also, the last thing I want to do when I get out of work is talk more about work. I'd rather hang out with people that want to talk skiing or biking.

[mcphee]

And assuming they aren’t a weirdo.

Which is probably why WFH is working so great for McPhee. ETA:

Seriously, though, face time breeds trust and rapport, brownie points notwithstanding. You can do it without being in person but it’s harder and can depend heavily on the other person.

lol. 98% of my time is on site in the shop. The other 2% is if a procedure needs done using a 3D model which I only use if I can't get good pics/video, ran out of time with the machine, or can't get hands on the iron.

millenials always get mad when you tell them their reinvention of the wheel ain’t new.p, and more than half of this wfh shit is pretending this shits new.

And if your zoom meetings suck it’s because your corporate culture sucks and in person meetings probably sucked too.

IME, the virtual meetings have eliminated a lot of the bullshitting. Our meetings are finally done on time or early and way more productive.

Let's get back to what this thread is really about: crying about what we can't have or salivating over other's misfortune.

[sirbumpsalot]

Seems like this will be a *good* thing?

Well first we need to convince people to move to Ohio....

Over the past 5 years I have seen more people moving from high cost west coast states to Tenn, TX, NV to take advantage of no/low income tax states given their remote position in the company. Surprisingly we just had a guy move from AZ to Kansas which surprised me. Maybe WFH will revitalize the fly over states?

Could bump up home prices there, and ease those in West Coast states, but remains to be seen.

[dunfree]

Retail - mass customer preference/stocking awareness and adjustment. "check the back" from a smartphone. order for curbside pickup, contactless payments

Everything has an aspect of tech these days.

that’s kinda my point. Every retailer offers curbside pickup these days, the differentiator isn’t so much the tech, it’s their retailing which includes how they integrated tech into their business.

most places will offer some flavor of wfh, for some roles, with success varying on company culture & industry. Corps were moving engineers & programmers & backend out of Silicon Valley long before covid19 to varying success, this shit ain’t new.

[XXX-er]

i did some stick bitch work for an engineer who had run projects with multiple stakeholders mutiple consultants billing lots of $$$ back in the day, he said the way to make it all happen fast/on time was to take all the chairs out of the room, some people thot he was hard ass but he was an engineer for fucksake there wasnt any fucking around and he paid on time



stodgy old IBM has been doing WFH for their country HW tech suport/ software support 20-25 yars, they are just taking phone calls

my kid told me he is working in Texas from Alberta, no immigration hassles that way