Real Estate Crash thread

[Greenstateofmind]

I have a similar issue where my shithead neighbor and his crony scum bag maintance man buddy decided to extend the right of way right through my front yard while we were away. Besides berating the man in his front yard, I’m still trying to find a real estate lawyer that isn’t back logged in closings.

Good luck.

[Benny Profane]

your ignorance is showing. but I guess that happens a lot with you.

you obviously haven't been to NWA. it gets humid but it's really beautiful, has a fair bit if 2,000' elevation, a world class museum, a strong state university and, oh, a strong job market with Walmart and a robust startup sector. the pay-to-move-here program isn't about tax capture of wfh-ies, like it is in VT. it's about attracting talent for the local corps and startups.

but bless your heart nevertheless.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

I would be so proud to live in a place that can point to WalMart as it's pinnacle of business innovation. You first.

[Benny Profane]

Benny, do you understand the difference between gross profit and net profit / (loss)? According to Ubers audited financial statements, even in 2020 they had a gross profit of approx $6b or 50%. After other costs (r&d, sga, etc) they posted a net loss, as they always have. A company with a 50% gross profit rate is almost always viable unless they have significant fixed expenses. Uber does not. Uber has a fuck ton of r&d and other growth related expenses. As a worst case scenario, the company could lean out and post a profit. Now their stock price would plummet as a result because the market assumes they will eventually achieve massive growth. But, even if you assume a worst case scenario, Uber could go through bankruptcy, lean itself out and turn a net profit.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2021...s-rolling.html

"Part Twenty-Seven returns to an important question this series has discussed on multiple occasions—how can a company that has produced eleven years of horrendous financial results and failed to present any semi-coherent argument as to how it could ever achieve sustainable profitability, still be widely seen as a successful and innovative company? One aspect of that was discussed in Part Twenty-Six: the mainstream business press reports of Uber’s financial results are written by people who have difficulty reading financial statements and do not understand concepts such as “profitability.”"

[Mustonen]

Today I went and looked at a place near Duluth that checks every single box except one item is a disqualifier. Made an offer with 1 contingency on said item. Hiring a lawyer to hash out details. Hopefully shit comes together. Fucking unbelievable. Not posting beta about this property yet, but I guarantee RootSkier will be jelly AF. Has beachfront that does not have sharks.

maggot bonfires on the beach while watching big ships AMERICA, FUCK YEAH

Congrats, dude! Hope it works out. Duluth is a nice town and if I stay in this area (UP) the shore of Lake Superior is the long-term goal. Couldn’t make it happen this cycle as I have kids that go to school inland.

[Toadman]

A few years back, when I was still living in Seattle, I had drinks with my younger bro and two of his work colleagues who used to work for Walmart in Benton, AR. They had moved to Seattle after having attended the US PGA championship down in Tacoma. Said they fell in love with the Puget Sound on day one. They couldn't wait to get the hell out of AR. I mean they couldn't wait to get out of there. Literally took them less than 2 months after visiting Seattle to find jobs and get the heck out of Benton. Probably doesn't hurt to have the Walmart corp. gig on your resume. They know how to buy, move and sell tons of stuff.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective and life experiences. I'm sure someone from Southside Chicago would probably love to live in NW Arkansas.

[Meadow Skipper]

I'm sure someone from Southside Chicago would probably love to live in NW Arkansas.

Like Hillary?

(I know, she’s not from southside)

[AdironRider]

Harry,

I wish you luck on your easement quest, but I unfortunately do not think you will be successful. The current easement holder is using it, and I'd be willing to be has been for longer than the seller is letting on. Your real estate agent doesn't know shit about this more than likely and is just trying to get a deal done. Maybe they haven't been using it, but they typically only have to show use once every 10 years at a minimum, and in many states it can be much longer, to keep the easement active and fight off adverse possession type claims. Either that or they have started exerting presence once they figured out the property was selling. Either way, they have proof of use.

My wife's family holds easements to their lake house and it is a constant fight against their neighbors that bought in a decade or so ago. It isn't hard to fight, but they have to at least once a year. At least in Maine, where their property is, the law sides with the easement holder almost 100% of the time, regardless of the super basic wording someone put down in the 1800 or whenever it was recorded (like theirs in 1807 before Maine was even a state and has carried over from when it was part of Massachusetts). You are doubly screwed if they are actively using it. That is going to make it all but impossible to remove. They use theirs to maintain fire protection and maintenance truck access to their camp, which is grandfathered in and sits right on the water and is otherwise inaccessible other than a couple hundred yard long foot path. They use this once maybe every couple years to get a plumbing truck down there or the like, but is critical to keeping the camp maintained and serviceable. They have to document it every time with a photo and a newspaper showing the date.

Your best bet is going to be to buy the people out of their easement. Otherwise if it is recorded and they have proof of recent use, you are going to spend a bunch of money on a property you do not own yet, and probably for nothing. If the easement holder is being a total dick about it already, I'd honestly look at a different property or get ready to live with it. You are effectively trying to take someone's property away, and you can imagine how you would feel about that.

[RockinB]

Adiron- I agree with most of what you said but every state has its own set of standards and laws when it comes to easements and use. Harry’s attorney should be well versed in MN law and hopefully be able to give him a clear understanding about what rights his neighbors have/don’t have. I deal with these exact situations often. I’ve seen hundreds of recorded easements that don’t meet the legal requirements and have seen judges rule against the ‘owner’ of the easement. If the neighbor is using this easement currently, it’s more than likely going to take a judge to change anything.

I recently purchased a piece of dirt and the title company missed a 60’ county road easement that was never utilized. I found an old unrecorded survey during my own records search that showed it and told the title company to pump the breaks until there was clarification on the status of this easement. They ended up sending someone to the courthouse for a couple of days to dig through the commissioners notes until they found the minutes showing that the easement was abandoned. I told them I wouldn’t close on the land until they could confirm this.

[AdironRider]

Yeah, if it was expunged or similar at some point that would certainly change things. I'd also be a dollar this guy is selling for reasons associated with the douche neighbor using his easement dickishly, or that is one of the straws that broke the camels back so to speak. I only know Maine, but I can't see it being all that easy/different otherwise what is the point of having an easement in the first place.

Property sounds cool though so may be worth the fight.

[skiballs]

A few years back, when I was still living in Seattle, I had drinks with my younger bro and two of his work colleagues who used to work for Walmart in Benton, AR. They had moved to Seattle after having attended the US PGA championship down in Tacoma. Said they fell in love with the Puget Sound on day one. They couldn't wait to get the hell out of AR. I mean they couldn't wait to get out of there. Literally took them less than 2 months after visiting Seattle to find jobs and get the heck out of Benton. Probably doesn't hurt to have the Walmart corp. gig on your resume. They know how to buy, move and sell tons of stuff.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective and life experiences. I'm sure someone from Southside Chicago would probably love to live in NW Arkansas.

Benton is not the same as Bentonville.
I went to the university of Arkansas back in the early 80’s. When old Sam used to drive around in his beater 1960 f-100. It was an interesting place back then. I haven’t been back, but I hear it’s crowded and full of douche bags now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[muted reborn]

So your solution is to get rid of most tourism in Teton valley? And you’re asking who that is a problem for? Why don’t you also “cancel” all second home ownership too, that will surely solve some problems right? I mean sure you’ll crash the local economy but take it from Stalin, you can’t have a revolution without starving a few peasants.

Oh, I was providing a solution here? Ha. But yep, I'm fine with all that very dramatic interpretation of what will happen. Thank you for taking my comment very seriously! I lived around there before Air BnB existed, it was a nice quiet community with workers who commuted to Jackson and things were affordable. If it goes back to that time, Hotels can be built, people/businesses can adjust, and we all know it's never going to happen anyways. It would be wonderful though.

[AdironRider]

Idaho has passed legislation basically making it impossible to regulate airbnb's, at least to the point where you could get rid of them.

My hood has 3 adu's going up currently, on top of the 6 that already exist, all planned to be airbnb'd. That is a lot of airbnb activity for a hood with only 18 houses. I don't fault my neighbors for doing it, the money is to good to pass up, but I'm not going to miss it when I move in September.

[MontuckyFried]

I want a lawyer to get that improperly recorded easement declared invalid. RE Agent says she thinks this will work based on the way it is worded. But yeah, I’m hiring a lawyer before I start spending staks of Benjamins.

Good luck, man. Hate to say it, but Adiron might be right. You're doing the right thing by seeking a lawyer's input on this one. Don't listen to your RE agent. I've learned through the years that most agents are full of shit on these matters, have zero clue what they're talking about with title law, and just want to get a deal done. There was a sick piece of property off the Gallatin (probably still for sale) that was going for a fair price, but upon digging into it, ends up there were some MAJOR easement issues I couldn't get past. I did my own homework, running title from its origins to present, was well versed on MT law on the matter, and at the end of the day, I couldn't get anywhere with the THREE parties involved. I had to deal with the Feds, the State, and the lumber company who originally clearcut and ransacked what is now the YC. Needless to say, I was glad I did my own homework because I could've gotten totally boned on the deal. So I bailed before it even started. Still wish I was able to pull it off, but I don't think I could have afforded the legal battles. Oh well. Best of luck! Sounds like a sweet place. Just don't fall in love with the deal if you can't past the easement issue.

[Kevo]

Idaho has passed legislation basically making it impossible to regulate airbnb's, at least to the point where you could get rid of them.

My hood has 3 adu's going up currently, on top of the 6 that already exist, all planned to be airbnb'd. That is a lot of airbnb activity for a hood with only 18 houses. I don't fault my neighbors for doing it, the money is to good to pass up, but I'm not going to miss it when I move in September.

Yeah, counties and municipalities can't outright prohibit STRs in Idaho, but they can be regulated for health/safety or to "protect the integrity of residential neighborhoods". STRs can also be taxed by counties and municipalities, and the state has a system set up so that AirBnB/VRBO can collect all levels of lodging and sales tax and then the state remits the revenue to the counties and municipalities that have applicable lodging/ sales taxes enacted.

Sandpoint and McCall have both enacted restrictions on the number of STRs within city limits. There are no more than 35 non owner occupied STRs allowed in Sandpoint. Someone told me Driggs is looking into similar restrictions.

The amount of people locally who keep saying "the state of Idaho made it so STRs can't be regulated" is pretty high, but that's not true. The law itself is fairly brief and very easy to understand.

[AdironRider]

Which is all fine and dandy if you live in Driggs/Victor city limits, but out here in the county, its not as easy as you say. I also said "they can't be regulated away". Sure tax the shit out of them, but the owners don't care and at 300+ a night the people renting them aren't going to care about the increased cost either. They literally have to drive hours to IF or pay even more to stay in Jackson.

You have 700+ property owners all making money on these already which represents over 20% of current housing stock, and they aren't exactly going to be like, oh well it was good while it lasted.

That's a lot of headwind to go against.

FYI Sandpoint has carved out a rather large exemption for "waterfront neighborhoods". https://www.sandpointidaho.gov/your-...tal-permitting

"Waterfront developments in a residential zone of 10 units or more are exempt from the notification requirement and are not counted towards the 35 unit limitation."

That like what, half of Sandpoint being exempt? Also, if it is anything like Jackson, where they claim they are illegal outside of resort overlays, but a simple search will show about 100 non-conforming ones operating at full occupancy, I have doubts about enforcement.

[altasnob]

Regarding the easement, so you hire a lawyer, file a lawsuit, win, get an order saying neighbor can't drive in your front yard (and neighbor doesn't appeal). What happens when the neighbor keeps doing it? You then have to pay lawyer more money to go get a contempt order form the court, which says neighbor has to pay you money as punishment. Ok, now how do you collect that money? What if the neighbor has no money to pay you? As others have said, much better if you wan work something out with neighbor (that is binding now, and in the future) without having to resort to the expensive court system.

[skaredshtles]

<snip> Sure tax the shit out of them, but the owners don't care and at 300+ a night the people renting them aren't going to care about the increased cost either.

Then someone should sack up and tax the shit out of them. I mean... if nobody cares, it's free money being left on the table.

[Kevo]

Which is all fine and dandy if you live in Driggs/Victor city limits, but out here in the county, its not as easy as you say.

Nevermind you have 700+ property owners all making money on these already, and they aren't exactly going to be like, oh well it was good while it lasted.

Per the law, counties have the same power to regulate numbers and health/safety considerations as municipalities. Bonner County (Sandpoint) already has some pretty strict regulations on their books and enact fines for anyone who isn't compliant.

Teton County could easily impose similar regulations. As for regulating numbers, Teton County could start a permitting system similar to Bonner County's and cap the numbers. Sandpoint basically said "we won't permit any new STRs after a certain date" and that was that.

[AdironRider]

Then someone should sack up and tax the shit out of them. I mean... if nobody cares, it's free money being left on the table.

Id say that is the future.

Meanwhile some guy is posting another tiny house for rent for 1475 a month. No actual utilities and off grid you shit in a bucket and admits the solar is useless in the winter. Claims that is "his cost". Yeah if you want to be paid back in like under a year I suppose. He'll still have it rented in like a day.

[Jax]

Tourism will continue to exist even if str's get regulated because HOTELS. They sustained tourists for generations. Ain't nobody gonna kill tourism, just put the tourists back where they belong, in the damned commercial districts.

#makeneighborhoodsgreatagain

[AdironRider]

Per the law, counties have the same power to regulate numbers and health/safety considerations as municipalities. Bonner County (Sandpoint) already has some pretty strict regulations on their books and enact fines for anyone who isn't compliant.

Teton County could easily impose similar regulations. As for regulating numbers, Teton County could start a permitting system similar to Bonner County's and cap the numbers. Sandpoint basically said "we won't permit any new STRs after a certain date" and that was that.

Heh, you must be new here.

[altasnob]

There are no more than 35 non owner occupied STRs allowed in Sandpoint.

Not exactly true. The way I read their code, if you live your place more than 6 months a year, you can STR your place the rest of the time with no restriction (so the 35 cap rule doesn't apply). If you live less than six months (non-owner occupied) then there is a cap of 35 in all residential zones in the city with a bunch of exceptions. Only applies to residential zones (so if you are outside of this, no restrictions). Also doesn't apply to structures with more than 10 units or more on the water close to downtown (most of the large condo complexes in Sandpoint are on the lake, and fit this description).

And guess what, Sandpoint's housing prices are skyrocketing just as fast as Teton Valley.

https://www.sandpointidaho.gov/your-...tal-permitting

[altasnob]

Bonner County (Sandpoint) already has some pretty strict regulations on their books and enact fines for anyone who isn't compliant.

It doesn't appear Bonner County caps the number of STR in anyway. You just need a permit. So if you are outside city limits of Sandpoint, there is no limit on how many STRs there can be.

I have no problem with taxing STR, making them apply for permits, requiring proper insurance, and fining for non-compliance. My beef is arbitrary caps that create random winners and losers, similar to rent control in San Francisco, which has been a colossal failure per any economists' analysis (yet still is popular with the masses and remains). Best way to limit STRs in a community? Build more hotels. Build hotels with kitchens (people want to cook their own meals). If hotel prices are cheap enough, Benny will chose that over a STR. No amount of regulation or caps will prevent the demand from tourists to tourist in these communities.

[RootSkier]

Harry, I hope it works out. I'm now a national member at Northland Country Club in Duluth and will be spending time there regularly. You gonna close by September? I'll be there the 8th.

And as a lawyer who litigates easements waaaaay too much, I highly recommend all you jokers pipe down. If there is an area of law more state- and fact-specific than easements, I'll eat Benny's chamois.

[RootSkier]

And I just re-read Harry's post and it says "near Duluth." That can only mean one of two things: North Shore or 🧀 head land. Praying for the former.