Real Estate Crash thread

[MontuckyFried]

I've always felt Bozeman has no soul.

Nailed it. Maybe I get too caught up in the UM vs MSU war (GO GRIZ!!!) since UM's my wife's alma mater, but I've spent time on both campuses and surrounding areas and the "vibe" is incomparable. Missoula has way more charm if you ask me (although its been a while since I've been there so maybe somebody can give me an update). MSU feels so sterile and blah, as does the town. Like a typical Californian suburb plopped in the middle of a cow pasture between some nice mountains.

[yeahman]

Missoula is more crowded than it used to be but it still has an awesome vibe with the great downtown and the river running through it, etc. Heading over there tonight to meet friends at Cranky Sam's, a new brewery downtown, and ogle at all the beautiful women.

[MontuckyFried]

Missoula is more crowded than it used to be but it still has an awesome vibe with the great downtown and the river running through it, etc. Heading over there tonight to meet friends at Cranky Sam's, a new brewery downtown, and ogle at all the beautiful women.

Yeaaaaah. Glad it's still good. Tubing the river with a cooler of beer on a hot summer's day, floating through downtown. Just the best. Suck on THAT, Bozeman.

[altasnob]

I see Bozeman growing faster, as a percentage-wise, of any place in the West for the rest of our lifetimes, regardless of how expensive it gets there. It just has all the attributes. While Montana St aint no Cal Tech, it is tech and engineering focused. Quick flights to all the places rich people already live. Two ski top 30 ski areas with reliable snowpack within a short drive. Yellowstone club and hobbie ranches to attract the super elite. A climate most people feel is desirable. Buildable land not confined by mountains and water. There is no other mid-size town in the West that checks all the boxes like Bozeman. Best case scenario for the rest of the West is to continue the Bozeman hype machine so it absorbs most the the growth.

[yeahman]

I see Bozeman growing faster, as a percentage-wise, of any place in the West for the rest of our lifetimes, regardless of how expensive it gets there. It just has all the attributes. While Montana St aint no Cal Tech, it is tech and engineering focused. Quick flights to all the places rich people already live. Two ski top 30 ski areas with reliable snowpack within a short drive. Yellowstone club and hobbie ranches to attract the super elite. A climate most people feel is desirable. Buildable land not confined by mountains and water. There is no other mid-size town in the West that checks all the boxes like Bozeman. Best case scenario for the rest of the West is to continue the Bozeman hype machine so it absorbs most the the growth.

Yeah, sucks to be Bozeman, I feel for the longtime locals there. Problem from my perspective is that being only 100 minutes away we inevitably get some spillover from that hype machine. It's only going to get worse. Oh well.

[muted reborn]

Haha. Right? Why would an AT&T data center need a teller window? Something fishy about this place. The front being a convincing façade is actually kinda genius.

That's not a teller window, there's no slot to exchange anything.


You guys shitting on Bozeman as never being cool: THAT WAS THE POINT. In the nineties it was a small sleepy cow town with incredible beauty and one of the coolest ski areas in NA very close by. People drove through and couldn't see what the locals saw. If you wanted a cooler town, go to Missoula. Then all the local downtown places turned from machine repairs, mom and pop stores, to art galleries and douchey bars by 2005, and the newcomers came and said 'wow no soul here!'. Yeah, they are catering to you guys. Cause and effect.

Yeah, Bridger is the soul of the community, if that's not enough too bad. And all the old quiet neighborhoods are very peaceful and calm to live in. I can't comment on all the new subdivisons that are just weird. Things changed 20 years ago, not last year.

And Bozeman is still special. I miss skiing with the local kids and seeing them grow up to be cool humans. I miss the community badly, not the town itself.

[dunfree]

Anyplace with “soul” got fucked over decades ago, but then again, soul got culturally plowed under in the early 00s.

[altasnob]

Back in the late 90s, half my high school class in Oregon went to college in Montana since the two states shared in-state tuition. The hard-core skiers picked Bozeman but complained all the chicks chewed tobacco and thought it was funny the dorms came with gun safes. The prissy Oregon girls picked Missoula because it had a better shopping mall and a good creative writing program. My friend who went to Bozeman took a bunch of photos of his weed and got it developed at Walmart (pre-digital camera days). The employee at Walmart turned him into the cops and the DEA got a search warrant for his dorm room, busted in the door, and seized all his weed and his camera (thinking he was dealing, he wasn't). Times have changed.

[AdironRider]

I've only spent a morning in Missoula but had breakfast at a place that was not only a breakfast joint, but had a full bar (that was packed at 8:30 in the morning), and a full gambling hall. If that ain't Montana I don't know what is.

Bozeman just seems like a lump of hipsters semi-close to recreation.

[WMD]

Powder Magazine's first "Best Little Ski Areas that Rock" in 1994 was the beginning of the end for Bozeman. It focused on The Ridge and said "every hardcore skier in North America should see and ski it." That got all the college students to start choosing Bozeman, and put Bridger on the ski map. https://www.powder.com/stories/class...le-areas-rock/

Bozeman does tick a lot of boxes and it will continue to grow rapidly. Close to Yellowstone, MSU has become a top tech school receiving lots of research grants, great fishing, 2 world class ski areas, nearby recreation, busy airport, freeway access, and lots of room to expand. It could easily become the next Boise.

I used to love it there but I'm glad I got out. When people ask if I miss it, I say I missed it even before I moved away. It is not even close to the same town it was in the 1990's.

All that said, Missoula has always had a better vibe and more soul. Just shittier skiing.

[Harry]

In the nineties If you wanted a cooler town, go to Missoula.

While your point is very true, in the 90’s Missoula had 4 operating timber mills within the city limits, and 2 more major mills just outside the city limits. 2 of the mills inside the city limits featured teepee burners running 24/7. Anyone who complains about forest fire smoke has no idea what Missoula was like in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s. I remember having to use my headlights at noon on a springtime day because of those mills.

Missoula definitely had a cool vibe back then, and still does. But it has definitely changed for the better over the years.

** 25 year Missoula resident **



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[Toadman]

I see Bozeman growing faster, as a percentage-wise, of any place in the West for the rest of our lifetimes, regardless of how expensive it gets there. It just has all the attributes. While Montana St aint no Cal Tech, it is tech and engineering focused. Quick flights to all the places rich people already live. Two ski top 30 ski areas with reliable snowpack within a short drive. Yellowstone club and hobbie ranches to attract the super elite. A climate most people feel is desirable. Buildable land not confined by mountains and water. There is no other mid-size town in the West that checks all the boxes like Bozeman. Best case scenario for the rest of the West is to continue the Bozeman hype machine so it absorbs most the the growth.

About 10k new peeps over a 9 year period, 27% growth. That's pretty healthy. If that trend continues for the next 10, things could get interesting.

[Benny Profane]

I see Bozeman growing faster, as a percentage-wise, of any place in the West for the rest of our lifetimes, regardless of how expensive it gets there. It just has all the attributes. While Montana St aint no Cal Tech, it is tech and engineering focused. Quick flights to all the places rich people already live. Two ski top 30 ski areas with reliable snowpack within a short drive. Yellowstone club and hobbie ranches to attract the super elite. A climate most people feel is desirable. Buildable land not confined by mountains and water. There is no other mid-size town in the West that checks all the boxes like Bozeman. Best case scenario for the rest of the West is to continue the Bozeman hype machine so it absorbs most the the growth.

Quick flights? To where?

[Benny Profane]

Back in the late 90s, half my high school class in Oregon went to college in Montana since the two states shared in-state tuition. The hard-core skiers picked Bozeman but complained all the chicks chewed tobacco and thought it was funny the dorms came with gun safes. The prissy Oregon girls picked Missoula because it had a better shopping mall and a good creative writing program. My friend who went to Bozeman took a bunch of photos of his weed and got it developed at Walmart (pre-digital camera days). The employee at Walmart turned him into the cops and the DEA got a search warrant for his dorm room, busted in the door, and seized all his weed and his camera (thinking he was dealing, he wasn't). Times have changed.

Did your friend send his home porn to the local one hour processing kiosk, too?

My guess is he didn't graduate high in his class. Maybe he's a state senator now?

[skaredshtles]

Quick flights? To where?

Direct flights to LA, San Fran, Seattle, Denver, Chicago, New York...

[Benny Profane]

Direct flights to LA, San Fran, Seattle, Denver, Chicago, New York...

One flight a day from NY at nearly a thousand? Unh uh. Nope. Maybe from L.A. and Seattle,but, not the east. Hey, maybe a home market can survive at those price levels in a city that's essentially a backwater, but I doubt it. I'd cash in now

[concretejungle]

One flight a day from NY at nearly a thousand? Unh uh. Nope. Maybe from L.A. and Seattle,but, not the east. Hey, maybe a home market can survive at those price levels in a city that's essentially a backwater, but I doubt it. I'd cash in now

Bless your heart.

This place is essentially Boulder twenty years ago, when I went to college there, minus the controlled growth.

[altasnob]

Competitors to Bozeman for medium-size town with most growth % in next 50 years are places like Bend, Bellingham, Wenatchee, Missoula, Coeur D'Alene, Grand Junction. Compared to places like this, Bozeman is well connected to the East.

[Benny Profane]

Bless your heart.

This place is essentially Boulder twenty years ago, when I went to college there, minus the controlled growth.

Well, you better get to work on a new zillion dollar airport with three runways that can land in a snowstorm and have international flights depart and arrive, if you want that Boulder thing to happen.

[SKIP IN7RO]

by 2065

{Within a few decades, the connect-the-dots corridor of Idaho Falls/Bonneville County, Idaho (currently 110K people) -Rexburg/Madison County, Idaho (40K)-Driggs/Victor/Teton County, Idaho (10K)-Jackson Hole/Teton County, Wyoming (24K)-Afton/Star Valley/Lincoln County, Wyoming (20K)-Pinedale/Sublette County, Wyoming (10K) will hold its own greater Salt Lake City equivalent of sprawl. Cody/Park County will hold a Bozeman-sized population. The Upper Yellowstone River Valley, between Gardiner and Livingston, will also be approaching Bozeman of today. Further, Billings/Laurel will be spilling into Red Lodge.}

[toast2266]

Competitors to Bozeman for medium-size town with most growth % in next 50 years are places like Bend, Bellingham, Wenatchee, Missoula, Coeur D'Alene, Grand Junction. Compared to places like this, Bozeman is well connected to the East.

Exactly.

And part of Bozeman's draw is that it's not right next to a major metropolis (unlike Boulder). Sure, that means it can't piggyback off of a larger city's infrastructure, but t's not like it's hard to fly into / out of Bozeman.

[skaredshtles]

One flight a day from NY at nearly a thousand? Unh uh. Nope. Maybe from L.A. and Seattle,but, not the east. Hey, maybe a home market can survive at those price levels in a city that's essentially a backwater, but I doubt it. I'd cash in now

Bless your heart.

[Dantheman]

2021 is peak-Bozeman? LOL

[Toadman]

I thought all the Cali transplants will move back to Cali after the first winter in Bozeman? I guess we need to wait and see...

[AdironRider]

I honestly thought like half of them would bail on Teton Valley after their first winter but they seem to just be convincing all their friends to move here also instead.