Real Estate Crash thread

[Danno]

My language was a bit broad, I'll give you that. I will say that pensions for city/county (i.e. municipal level) government employees are largely a thing of the past, and that didn't just happen in the last few years. I can't speak for state/federal folks.

Municipal folks in AZ (maybe all, not sure, but definitely some) have a pension program. I have friends who work for Maricopa Cty and City of Flag and they both have a pension.

[Conundrum]

Danno, shhhh, we can't be patently false with real examples.

[RootSkier]

Montana has it for all local government employees too, and it is the exact same program as for state employees.

Maybe glade is just bummed he picked the wrong state.

[AdironRider]

Maybe Glaze is just referencing the percentage the employee is required to have withheld? In that sense, Wyoming is the last holdout requiring only 3.5%ish. Most other pensions are going to require well above that.

But that is still a pension, and guaranteed. So, as with most topics, he's just salty he doesn't have it on easy street yet as a 30 something.

[El Chupacabra]

Montana has it for all local government employees too, and it is the exact same program as for state employees.

Maybe glade is just bummed he picked the wrong state.

Same for Nevada.

[Conundrum]

7% from the employee, 12% from the employer here. I'm sure that's what he meant.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Glade can speak for himself but in Colorado, I don't think most county employees have PERA (pension). They get a 401(a) with high matching (something like 6%) with quick full vesting (something like 3 years).

[glademaster]

Montana has it for all local government employees too, and it is the exact same program as for state employees.

Maybe glade is just bummed he picked the wrong state.

I disagree, as someone who has been offered two public sector jobs in MT, and who reviewed the details of the compensation package thoroughly.

The other important thing to remember is that many places that have pension (or pension-like) programs only have those programs for people who have been with the organization since a certain year. In some public sector jobs, your retirement package is going to look very different if you started working there in 1990, 2005 and 2020.

I don't consider employer matching contributions to be a pension.

Glade can speak for himself but in Colorado, I don't think most county employees have PERA (pension). They get a 401(a) with high matching (something like 6%) with quick full vesting (something like 3 years).

This. Those programs are not "pensions" and are quite common in the public sector now. Is it still a nice retirement benefit? Absolutely! Is it a pension? No.

[Danno]

I don't even know my percentage, but it sure as fuck ain't 3.5%!

[Foggy_Goggles]

7% from the employee, 12% from the employer here. I'm sure that's what he meant.

Holy fuck! What does the pension benefit looks like? How long to serve, what percentage of salary etc.?

[Danno]

I don't consider employer matching contributions to be a pension.

I have a defined benefit plan, and to fund that plan I have to pay a % and my employer does too (somewhere in the range of 10% each). I don't pay into Social Security as a result. You can call it something else if you like -- a defined benefit plan is the formal term -- but pretty much everyone I know calls it a pension. :shrug:

As I noted in an earlier post, they definitely change the rules from time to time regarding payouts, eligibility, etc, and sometimes they grandfather people in and sometimes they don't. But the basic bottom line still exists here for all state employees and teachers.

[Toadman]

This is patently false and hasn't been true for most public sector workers for close to 30 years now. Wyoming is one of the last remaining places with a true pension program for municipal level public employees.

Anchorage, AK public employees still have pensions. AFAIK, the Oregon PERS is still solvent and operating too.

[AdironRider]

If there is a defined benefit it is what anyone else would call a pension in any reasonable discussion.

[AdironRider]

Holy fuck! What does the pension benefit looks like? How long to serve, what percentage of salary etc.?

Those numbers don't seem super far out of whack. Wyoming may only require 3.5% of the employee, but they require the county (or school, town or library that also qualifies) put in 14.5% or so. Almost any pension plan is going to require upwards of 18-20% total to remain solvent, those guarantees cost money.

[Conundrum]

Holy fuck! What does the pension benefit looks like? How long to serve, what percentage of salary etc.?

It's actually pretty sweet and not bankrupt like a lot of states. For Glade-it is a guaranteed pension. Have to work for a persi eligible employer for at least five years and you're vested and will receive a guaranteed benefit-probably pretty low and I'm not sure what amount. They use the rule of 80 for public safety and 90 for everyone else so years worked plus age for maximum amount. Let's say you start teaching at age 30 and teach until 60, you're golden with full benefit. I don't know all the details. I know my mom retired at 60 from teaching. Also had some type of retiree healthcare program that got her to Medicare at 65. Between her pension and SS, she's pulling in about $6k/month. She owns her house outright so she's doing pretty well on a public pension plus SS.

Crazy that a couple of teachers could work the public sector, buy a house, and have nice retirement. Unfortunately, my dad passed prior to retirement so that sucks for her. I will say they taught in outlying rural areas to be able to afford their first house. They didn't look at distance to ski hills, good dining etc. They just went where they could afford to live and work. They didn't upgrade houses on debt throughout their lives either. Different market and different generation.

[old_newguy]

Anchorage, AK public employees still have pensions. AFAIK, the Oregon PERS is still solvent and operating too.

Oregon PERS has an unfunded liability of over $25 billion dollars and the payments to keep the system solvent are eating local and county governments lunch. I believe some of the original investment returns assumed 8% growth year over year.

But yes, it is still around. New entrants enter into a much less generous system than the Tier 1/2 participants who are retiring right now.

[glademaster]

I don't have anything better to do, but I also don't feel like continuing this semantic argument, so agree to disagree.

But yes, it is still around. New entrants enter into a much less generous system than the Tier 1/2 participants who are retiring right now.

This is very true. As someone who started in the public sector in 2016, the retirement options available to me are very different from what was available 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

[Conundrum]

WA has PERS too. Not sure who all it covers.

My question is, if glade is such a valuable public employee, how does he find the time to post here all day? I don't mind using my employer's time like I do but I'm not taxpayer funded.

[Benny Profane]

Are these "pensions" managed by the employee in any way? Choice of funds. etc.?

[Foggy_Goggles]

I'm the Treasurer for my local municipal water district. The finances look pretty sweet under the auditor takes into consideration our unfunded portion of COPERA. But yeah, that does fall under Real East as the audited financials are considered by the bond underwriters and do contribute to higher interest rate on municipal debt. Which almost doesn't matter in the land of Entitled Yoga Moms with Sweet Puffy Coat Collections because we really don't pay shit it property taxes but we make up for it with bitching and legal weed.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Jeez..."defined benefit" vs. "defined contribution". One is generally called a pension, the other one isn't. They are both "Retirement Plans". Suze Orman would like to have a word with you, and oh...don't forget to return that call about your car's warrenty.

[glademaster]

WA has PERS too. Not sure who all it covers.

My question is, if glade is such a valuable public employee, how does he find the time to post here all day? I don't mind using my employer's time like I do but I'm not taxpayer funded.

Since you asked, I took today off because I have a million things to do regarding the house I'm buying. So I'm using PTO today. If you want to be a real twat, you can look at my post history and figure out how much I post between 8am and 4pm on weekdays, but I hope for your sake you have something better to do.

Are these "pensions" managed by the employee in any way? Choice of funds. etc.?

IME, yes. Employees also have a choice of how much they want to contribute. Employers will match that up to a certain %, but the employee can contribute a greater % than that if they so choose. Employee contribution was capped at 10% in WA, I think my employer kicked in a 5.4% or 5.8% match.

[Foggy_Goggles]

IME, yes.

That answer is making it worse.

Check the fucking title work. Check the state well permit. Have a well guy look at the the system. Check the fucking survey. Don't use the realtors home inspector. What else do you need to know.

[Conundrum]

Back to real estate...congrats on your new house!

Benny-the Idaho PERSI fund does not offer choices to employees to direct funds and it is 90% funded on a 20 year amortization schedule. About $18B currently in the fund. PERSI then offers an additional 401k option that is voluntary for employees and they can direct funds there. It is a state sponsored pension fund for public employees that is not bankrupt like a lot of states.

[Yonder_River]

This is patently false and hasn't been true for most public sector workers for close to 30 years now. Wyoming is one of the last remaining places with a true pension program for municipal level public employees.

Sure it is. I'm exposed to a lot of it through my job. It certainly isn't what it used to be and now folks are being dropped into pers 3 and such, but a fair amount of cities, counties, ports and most definitely state level workers are in it. Utilities as well. In fact, most utilities' cost of benefits as a percentage of payroll is around 50 to 80%.