Real Estate Crash thread

[Name Redacted]

No snowmobile or Sprinter van in his driveway.

No snowmobile or Sprinter van in his driveway.

I don't own either of those, nor do I have a STR property, or a trust fund. I'm just a guy living in one of the most expensive areas in the US trying to get by with a full time job, and a couple of side hustles.

Maybe I'm effected by the shit we are talking about a lot more than some dipshit boomer in CT who is salty because he had to cancel his 6th ski trip to Italy because of the inconveniences presented by a global pandemic. So instead he tries to stir up shit on internet forums to get attention because no one will pay attention to him IRL.

[Meadow Skipper]

Foggy_Goggles is making a lot of sense.

[Name Redacted]

Dude you are as close to an online friend as I have around here so I'm not trying to bust your balls. I sit in all kinds of meetings, am the Treasurer of my Water District and President of my HOA.

Not once has anyone been able to present an argument about treating STRs as a commercial entity other than, it is bad for my pocket book. Your shtick is no different. You trotted out an article touting the challenges that had no challenges.

I'm no public policy expert but I've been around the block enough times with mountain town politics to know the game. These big fish in a little pond put up just enough of a fight that they wear down the opposition.

I'm pretty stubborn but I'm pretty open to changing my mind. The fact that the government has historically been pretty shitty at financial management is a weak sauce argument against any change in tax policy.

I'm just saying that charging commercial property taxes on residential properties because they are rented out as STRs is a slippery slope. Rezoning a property is a pretty big deal to the bank who holds the note on that property. (That was in the article). It also probably isn't a small amount of paperwork for the city or county to completely rezone a shitload of properties interspersed throughout residential neighborhoods.
Where do you draw the line? how many days can someone rent their place out before their entire property is completely rezoned? Why aren't LTRs taxed as commercial? etc etc. Lodging taxes are a far simpler way to go about it, and that's already being done.

Would it be nice if everything went back to where it was before internet sites allowed people to rent out their homes more easily? Sure, those were the good old days when my broke ass could still afford a little ski vacation to another town every once in a while. But you can't tax us back to the good old days. You'll just raise the bar and only the really rich people will be able to visit your town for more than a day trip.

[Benny Profane]

I don't own either of those, nor do I have a STR property, or a trust fund. I'm just a guy living in one of the most expensive areas in the US trying to get by with a full time job, and a couple of side hustles.

Maybe I'm effected by the shit we are talking about a lot more than some dipshit boomer in CT who is salty because he had to cancel his 6th ski trip to Italy because of the inconveniences presented by a global pandemic. So instead he tries to stir up shit on internet forums to get attention because no one will pay attention to him IRL.

Oh no, that was going to be my first ski trip to Italy.

Glad you used the word hustle, before I had to.

I really cant believe that, as mentioned, little commercial hotels have been allowed to operate in zoned residential neighborhoods without a fight from town councils and mayors, but, to be cynical , shows us how much they are owned.
But, I'm part of that problem, too, because in both of those month stays in Italy I Airbnb'd a nice apartment a local middle class person could have lived in year round. It was a good deal, both times.

[skifishbum]

im kinda surprised the bbi scholarship of worthy maggots foundation
didnt considers you in the awarding of this years goin to ski yurp recipients

[Benny Profane]

I'm just saying that charging commercial property taxes on residential properties because they are rented out as STRs is a slippery slope. Rezoning a property is a pretty big deal to the bank who holds the note on that property. (That was in the article). It also probably isn't a small amount of paperwork for the city or county to completely rezone a shitload of properties interspersed throughout residential neighborhoods.
Where do you draw the line? how many days can someone rent their place out before their entire property is completely rezoned? Why aren't LTRs taxed as commercial? etc etc. Lodging taxes are a far simpler way to go about it, and that's already being done.

Would it be nice if everything went back to where it was before internet sites allowed people to rent out their homes more easily? Sure, those were the good old days when my broke ass could still afford a little ski vacation to another town every once in a while. But you can't tax us back to the good old days. You'll just raise the bar and only the really rich people will be able to visit your town for more than a day trip.

No, you see, if you stop the STR thing, it will revert back to the housing economy that existed just a dozen years ago, when condo owners rented long term (usually six months in ski towns) or, short term would be a month or two, like the two places I rented in Summit that don't exist on my market anymore. Still not addressing the ski industry worker issue fully, but, it would help a lot. And, trust me, my landlords at the time were making out ok, especially considering the age of the places.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Thanks for the answer. I'll respond to that tonight but the short answer is that it is actually not that hard. The homeowner declares the # of days that they rented (less that 30) and the assessor enters that into the system.

Re: loans and zoning If you are in violations of terms and agreements that you already entering into, tough shit. My fixed income homie say the mortgage market loves STRs as in provides an income stream other than your paycheck. They know what up, they invented the game. They ain't gonna bite off their own nose. "Wanna Cookie" as they say. Nobody's portfollio likes OREOS.

[Benny Profane]

Thanks for the answer. I'll respond to that tonight but the short answer is that it is actually not that hard. The homeowner declares the # of days that they rented (less that 30) and the assessor enters that into the system.

Re: loans and zoning If you are in violations of terms and agreements that you already entering into, tough shit. My fixed income homie say the mortgage market loves STRs as in provides an income stream other than your paycheck. They know what up, they invented the game. They ain't gonna bite off their own nose. "Wanna Cookie" as they say. Nobody's portfollio likes OREOS.

Another excellent argument that this is a commercial RE issue that local politicians or even state level have to address.

[skiballs]

sure seems bunny has his finger on the pulse of most everything
cept live females

Did Hilary die?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fastfred]

Breck to Aurora and back, no wonder you’re so salty, vibes.
How much are the trailers, in that trailer park, just north of the ski shop on the corner?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

cake walk of a drive during the week only rough spot was i70 central project down to about 50mph and the 225 merge exit area just gotta be paying attention around there
80 the whole way stopped in idaho springs through on the way home to tighten the load and buy some meth

the one trailer has been for sale for 10 years it was listed around 400k this summer it's down to 200 something now lot rent is around 1500 month she was short terming it for awhile until the locals got pissed and threw a fit cause thats against the trailer park rules

I just don't see how little hotels can operate in areas zoned residential. Many people talk about private property rights regarding STRs. AirBB didn't exist when I bought my single family home in a residentially zoned area. Now there are three (out of state owners) out of seven houses on my little street that are STRs. I don't really like it. Not the end of the world but at the same time, other commercial entities that wouldn't cause more issues are not allowed. I'm curious when my residentially zoned property rights will be under consideration to protect actual zoning law enforcement in an R7 historic district. I can't paint my house certain colors because of historic contribution considerations but an out-of-state investor can operate commercial business in an area that never had a hotel nor historically consisted of anything but single family dwellings. I guess it's time to fire up the typewriter and get some letters into the city council...or at least fire something up. See you in the spirit world Fred.

the problem with small towns and small town resorts is you gotta be careful what you say and do I've learned the hard way over the years
everyone has their fingers in everything and everyone knows everyone
I was fumming still am about a bunch of bullshit around here
then I get a phone call and I realize I got to shut the fuck up and keep my head down cause if I make waves people will black ball me quickly

everyday I want to go start pointing out all the bullshit back handed crap and garbage that goes on around here but if I do I won't be able to have my cake too and the only way to succeed around here is to be given a piece of cake

that's why the only people bitching up a storm are the 1-3 year done and gone locals and the retirees who usually don't even have legal residency here but like to be pretendalocals

[simple]

Now imagine if you had to hustle like that in the big city. Mountain kids ain't got the stamina to keep up with the big dirty dogs who play the game 24/7. They don't get to go chill on the slopes and throw frisbees around at lunch. Knocking down apartment buildings and having oysters with a state senator on the same day.

[Benny Profane]

Now imagine if you had to hustle like that in the big city. Mountain kids ain't got the stamina to keep up with the big dirty dogs who play the game 24/7. They don't get to go chill on the slopes and throw frisbees around at lunch. Knocking down apartment buildings and having oysters with a state senator on the same day.

Yeah, but, on the other hand, you have all sorts of regulations and laws in the RE industry you have to dance around, and so many more palms to grease.

My buddy is a landlord in Denver, moved there in his twenties away from the NYC market his father made his fortune in. Loves it. No rent control, just pretty much operates freely. He's doing very well.

[climberevan]

the one trailer has been for sale for 10 years it was listed around 400k this summer it's down to 200 something now lot rent is around 1500 month she was short terming it for awhile until the locals got pissed and threw a fit cause thats against the trailer park rules

It's at least a little ironic that trailer park rules manage to prohibit STR but towns/states are too gutless to even tax what are obviously hotels as such.

I'm prohibited from operating, say, a public facing welding or autobody shop on my residential property; why should a mini-hotel get a special exception?

[Benny Profane]

Or, hey, try opening a trailer park down the road in some of these neighborhoods and just sit back and enjoy the tumult.

[BmillsSkier]

I'd like to hear more about what made Fred's friend so mad he hit the e-brake on Imperial Chair.

[fastfred]

It's at least a little ironic that trailer park rules manage to prohibit STR but towns/states are too gutless to even tax what are obviously hotels as such.

I'm prohibited from operating, say, a public facing welding or autobody shop on my residential property; why should a mini-hotel get a special exception?

in the next ten years summit county will have forced all these types of business out. Currently they are on track to demo 2 trailer parks this summer. Every bleeding heart is crying for these now displaced people. Even though trailerthorne as been trying to remove the trailer parks for twenty years now. They couldn't be happeir, replace shitty trailers with 800k condos fuck yeah. As for industrial/commerical areas currently they are turning a blind eye but as soon as some new local who doesn't like that shit starts complaining its game over. Because most of these businesses do not conform to any of the zoning laws. The word I got is that the powers that be are aware, but also know they will crush many businesses if they start enforcing the rules, so they look the other way. Currently there are four locations around and in breckenridge that allow industrial/commercial use, I'm in one of them and you have to watch your back, the other three are in the county, not the city, eventually they will get swallowed up and forced to change. Either by selling out to developers or being forced to clean up and follow zoning rules by the gov't. selling out to developers seems to be the way things are headed cause money is important

[fastfred]

I'd like to hear more about what made Fred's friend so mad he hit the e-brake on Imperial Chair.

not my story to tell
but you'd think mr ounce a week would be one chill dude instead it only brings him down a small bit
he got his pass pulled and someone else was fired

[TAFKALVS]

It is simple to me. Residential neighborhoods should be neighborhoods.

Tax unoccupied 2nd/3rd/4th SFH at a very high rate. Sliding scale, the more property you hold, the bigger the %.

Tax SFH owned by an LLC or Trust or Corp at a much higher rate.

Rent high density condos out all you want. The more efficient use of space makes it okay. Build as many of them as you can. Take a nod from euros, nothing wrong with a 20+ story building in a mountain town. Its an efficient use of space, and doesn't need to be ugly. Put a parking garage in the basement.

Rent your ADU above the garage all you want.

Rent your investment condo all you want.

But houses should be homes.

[BmillsSkier]

not my story to tell
but you'd think mr ounce a week would be one chill dude instead it only brings him down a small bit
he got his pass pulled and someone else was fired

Damn, that had to be one hell of a tantrum.

It's been my experience that pretty much everyone on that side of the mountain is pretty chill to begin with. And they have impeccable taste as evidenced by the amount of props I got on my CR Johnson pro models during a pow day over the holidays in the 6 Chair line.

[mmmm...pow!]

This whole conversation just played out in North Tahoe the other day. The county board of supervisors who are supposed to "represent" us, are made up of four people from the Sac suburbs, and one who lives here but has been in charge of various tourism boards over the years. On top of a petition signed by 1600 people (a fairly decent chunk of our full time population here), several dozen people spoke out against STRs, while maybe five spoke out in favor. Those five obviously being owners/managers of STRs. The best solution the board has come up with is a recommendation to increase the number of STRs by 10%, to roughly 35% of all residential housing in the area, and tack on an extra hour to quiet time, and make it harder for people living onsite to rent their homes when they are the only people that should actually be allowed to. So basically a giant "fuck you" to the hundreds of locals who spoke out against STRs, and likely hundreds more who couldn't make the meeting because they were working one of their 2 or 3 jobs just trying to get by. No definite decision made yet, but not hard to see where it's going.

[TAFKALVS]

This whole conversation just played out in North Tahoe the other day. The county board of supervisors who are supposed to "represent" us, are made up of four people from the Sac suburbs, and one who lives here but has been in charge of various tourism boards over the years. On top of a petition signed by 1600 people (a fairly decent chunk of our full time population here), several dozen people spoke out against STRs, while maybe five spoke out in favor. Those five obviously being owners/managers of STRs. The best solution the board has come up with is a recommendation to increase the number of STRs by 10%, to roughly 35% of all residential housing in the area, and tack on an extra hour to quiet time, and make it harder for people living onsite to rent their homes when they are the only people that should actually be allowed to. So basically a giant "fuck you" to the hundreds of locals who spoke out against STRs, and likely hundreds more who couldn't make the meeting because they were working one of their 2 or 3 jobs just trying to get by. No definite decision made yet, but not hard to see where it's going.

Lemme guess, all the "for" are boomers, except for one 30 something "investor" who leveraged to his eyeballs and can't have the music stop or he defaults.

[Benny Profane]

Well, you know, if it's an elected position, time for the Gen Xers and Millennials to get out and campaign or stfu.

[Timberridge]

Benny's bringing the heat today.

[BmillsSkier]

Someone spiked the Werther's Originals.

[Benny Profane]

Fucking Bomb Cyclone isn't going dump shit on Vermont.