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  1. #15001
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4matic View Post
    Because the arts are for losers.
    yeh totally realized that at one point so I grabbed a hammer and started swinging so people didn't think I was a pussy

    other than that, lots of good comments in the past page or three, plenty I could quote for there stellar thoughts

    why are jobs more dangerous in colorado? They are. As said, no licensing, no oversite, building costs are already stupid here and always have been so consumers are desperate to cut costs anywhere, so its labor, pretty much all the crews you see building in this state have no workers comp policy, none, so there is no concern for safety, it's a free for all, it blows my mind, but when I deep throat 50k in insurance costs a year that cuts into profit and I can't compete with uninsured companies I got a dozen guys all working as employees not this sub contractor employee 1099 bullshit that 80% of colorado contractors use

    I was looking at a structural issue at a condo buildling the other day and we were in a unit someone was doing work in, I gladly pointed out to the new big time contractor kid that all the drywall he removed had asbestos in it, next thing I realize is I remodeled the place years ago, dumb me, they don't call it dope for nothing, the owners kept asking for quotes and never took me up on them, finally found a cheap guy to demo asbestos for them

    the bs about your body falling apart at 40 because you work in the trades is dog shit, sure you see fat old tradesman but none of them took care of their bodies to begin with, they eat dog shit every day don't streatch and don't care drink heavily to numb the physical and metal pain but the same is true for office jockies look at your co workers just cause your an above average tgr poster you gotta remember that most people are a train wreck by 40 no matter what they do because pills and modern medicine will fix anything and you can treat your body like shit

    As for me, I think about going back to work someday, but I'm a pussy now, it's kind of scary, to actually have to work, I haven't done any real work in almost ten years now, I just get mad when I run out of printer ink, I sit a computer for 3-4 hrs a day and drive around and talk and point my finger all day and watch tens of thousands of dollars evaporate every week I do like to lift two sheets of 5/8 drywall at a time once in awhile load and unload them my fear is turning into a complete soft handed artist type

  2. #15002
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    We got old skiing carpenters up here, not much building done when its too cold to pour concrete so go skiing and they can build their own ski cabins
    It's never too cold to pour concrete, it just depends on how much you're willing to spend to do it.
    Relentlessly pursuing beauty in an irredeemably ugly world.

  3. #15003
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    Quote Originally Posted by liv2ski View Post
    Going into debt is dumb for a liberal arts education.
    I'm always surprised by these claims.

    Virtually everything the current tech or bio industries relies on came out of physics, bio, chemistry and math, liberal arts majors if there are any.

    That said, my son wants to be a physicist, but is simultaneously working on plans to get an electricians license.

    It's great to do art, but it usually requires being part of a large organization or bureaucracy which can suck. Having a trade like plumbing or electrical makes it easier to be solo, mobile or in a small business.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  4. #15004
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    Quote Originally Posted by liv2ski View Post
    No, because the arts are for people that live in a country that pays their education or here with Bank of Dad to cover it. Going into debt is dumb for a liberal or fine arts education.
    Let me guess.. Dogs playing poker?

  5. #15005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    Virtually everything the current tech or bio industries relies on came out of physics, bio, chemistry and math, liberal arts majors if there are any.

    That said, my son wants to be a physicist, but is simultaneously working on plans to get an electricians license.
    FWIW, that's the trade I would point people toward above any other. Clean work (for the trades), pays well, and tends to attract folks with a little more going on upstairs. Wiring a commercial building takes a bit more brain power than making sure that you don't have leaks and that all your shit is flowing downhill.

    That being said, I hope he's comfortable with heights and big ladders.
    Relentlessly pursuing beauty in an irredeemably ugly world.

  6. #15006
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    High water mark?Name:  IMG_5684_20210612_141225.jpeg
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    ride bikes, climb, ski, travel, cook, work to fund former, repeat.

  7. #15007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Also, who's to say that home construction may eventually be disrupted by technology, therefore eliminating once lucrative trades? Like that hasn't happened somewhat already?
    3D printers.

  8. #15008
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    Quote Originally Posted by climberevan View Post
    High water mark?Name:  IMG_5684_20210612_141225.jpeg
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    Nah, we've been seeing triple digit prices for sheets of plywood around here for months.
    Relentlessly pursuing beauty in an irredeemably ugly world.

  9. #15009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    Entry level journey folks are making that in the Puget Sound area. Certified electrician are making in excess of $200k/year here. One of the local tv stations did a story on this last year, interviewing electrical contractors who can't get enough electricians.
    Anecdotally, sure. Anecdotally some lawyers make 8 figure salaries. Thatís not a good reason to go into law school, though, because that isnít reality.
    focus.

  10. #15010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    Anecdotally, sure. Anecdotally some lawyers make 8 figure salaries. That’s not a good reason to go into law school, though, because that isn’t reality.
    What's this reality stuff ? How much does it cost?

    Anyway, the fact that several electrical contractors in the Puget Sound can't staff up for their projects to the extent it warranted a news feature story is a bit more than anecdotal.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  11. #15011
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    Real Estate Crash thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    What's this reality stuff ? How much does it cost?

    Anyway, the fact that several electrical contractors in the Puget Sound can't staff up for their projects to the extent it warranted a news feature story is a bit more than anecdotal.
    Itís only relevant if they were offering $200k with no takers, though.
    focus.

  12. #15012
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    Quote Originally Posted by liv2ski View Post
    No, because the arts are for people that live in a country that pays their education or here with Bank of Dad to cover it. Going into debt is dumb for a liberal or fine arts education.
    you ever think about the amount of art involved to get a bottle of beer into your hand, art on the label on the beer case the artists singing on a beer commercial ?

    all that stuff doesnt just happen it takes artists
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  13. #15013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    It’s only relevant if they were offering $200k with no takers, though.
    Exactly. Those guys making $200K aren't journeymen, so they've been pulling wire full time for 10+ years to be making that kind of money. And they probably spent a number of years making less than $50k with shitty/nonexistent benefits to get there.
    Relentlessly pursuing beauty in an irredeemably ugly world.

  14. #15014
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    you ever think about the amount of art involved to get a bottle of beer into your hand, art on the label on the beer case the artists singing on a beer commercial ?

    all that stuff doesnt just happen it takes artists
    In America, those tasks get farmed out to the business owner's wife/gf, who does them without compensation. I've seen it firsthand several times.

    And the end result of that attitude toward art and artists is a country and society that are reprehensibly ugly in every way, shape and form. America!
    Relentlessly pursuing beauty in an irredeemably ugly world.

  15. #15015
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    so mrs Coors does it eh ?

    the writing jingles, label &case art

    I'd like to see you run that one past mrs glademaster,

    you be eating takeout pizza and sleeping in the garage tonight
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  16. #15016
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    It’s only relevant if they were offering $200k with no takers, though.
    They offered no experience $60k with training and benefits with guaranteed $50/hour after 2 years and claimed over $200k for their full cert guys.

    There's lots of IT/software jobs around here that pay less than $60k. So it's relevant.

    Admittedly, this is in the greater Puget Sound where construction is going bananas.

    The point being that despite the glamor of the tech industry, there are ways to make a buck and have a future here in the trades.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  17. #15017
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_newguy View Post
    Bunion, are you doing erosion control or something?

    In a broad sense yes.

    Part of my service is to prevent erosion. Basically I help builders/developers in minimizing the total pollutants leaving job sites and muddy water is considered a pollutant.

    That's when I learned that people are crazy. The homeowners couldn't wait a few months for things to get more reasonable.
    QFT, everything here is based on when the homeowners want to move in with X-mas, July 4th and Turkeyday being the big 3. Snow removal is big business and if you have a contained spot to dump snow and a couple of trucks to haul and dump you can make good $$$.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

  18. #15018
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    Back in the day I bought a T-shirt at Likely paddlefest, my GF the teacher & spelling nazi pointed out that Likley was mis-spelled which I point out to the organizer, buddy said he got really busy so he let the guy in the tattoo shop take care of it
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  19. #15019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    They offered no experience $60k with training and benefits with guaranteed $50/hour after 2 years and claimed over $200k for their full cert guys.

    There's lots of IT/software jobs around here that pay less than $60k. So it's relevant.

    Admittedly, this is in the greater Puget Sound where construction is going bananas.

    The point being that despite the glamor of the tech industry, there are ways to make a buck and have a future here in the trades.
    Your protestations notwithstanding, thatís still pretty anecdotal and youíre still grasping at outliers. Google says median electrician salary in that area is around $80k, whichÖ sure. Iím not saying that the trades arenít a valid career path, but to my point and to the thread, it isnít looking good as a path to home ownership given current trends. How much does a 2000 square ft 3 bedroom home cost in puget sound?
    focus.

  20. #15020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    In a broad sense yes.

    Part of my service is to prevent erosion. Basically I help builders/developers in minimizing the total pollutants leaving job sites and muddy water is considered a pollutant.


    .
    thats cool ^^ locally we have a sawmill where they designed the drainage so all the runoff from a mill and log yard goes thru a meandering pond full of rushes & cattails before going into the Bulkley river
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  21. #15021
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    From https://www.comparably.com/salaries/...-in-seattle-wa

    Salary Ranges for Union Electricians in Seattle, WA
    The salaries of Union Electricians in Seattle, WA range from $35,879 to $173,907 , with a median salary of $75,369 . The middle 57% of Union Electricians makes between $75,369 and $108,139, with the top 86% making $173,907.


    https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...le_WA/overview
    Median Seattle house price is $765k.

    Assuming a $600k loan at 3%, monthlies are around $2800.

    If a kid starts out as an electrician, ends up in their 30s making $8k/month as an employee, no where near the top end of the data, that's well into the ballpark for a loan. Plus, they're set up to start their own contracting company.

    So, I still think there's an argument for it.

    Then there's this ad:


    Journeyman/Journeywoman Plumber
    apex mechanical
    Seattle, WA
    $75 - $95 an hour
    .
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  22. #15022
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    Until tech learns to run on something other than electricity, there will be a need for electricians.
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  23. #15023
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    Quote Originally Posted by climberevan View Post
    High water mark?Name:  IMG_5684_20210612_141225.jpeg
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    Who the fuck is buying this plywood at those prices? Fuck BTC, buy OSB!
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  24. #15024
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    They offered no experience $60k with training and benefits with guaranteed $50/hour after 2 years and claimed over $200k for their full cert guys.

    There's lots of IT/software jobs around here that pay less than $60k. So it's relevant.

    Admittedly, this is in the greater Puget Sound where construction is going bananas.

    The point being that despite the glamor of the tech industry, there are ways to make a buck and have a future here in the trades.
    Glamour? Tech industry?


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  25. #15025
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    Right. Here too. Plus $200k gross as a contractor/business owner is a lot different than $200k gross as a W2 employee who also has benefits.

    I brought it up because it was stated earlier in this thread that in this market much less than $100k and itís damn hard to afford a reasonable house in a place you want to live, and to actually be comfortable itís closer to $200k. And then we started talking about how more kids should look into trades.

    Look at median home price, and then look at the average electrician salary of under $60k/year. And then tell me why my kid shouldnít set their sights on engineering or medicine or even business.
    I donít know where you get electricians for $60k a year. Sometimes I think those stats are weighed down by people saying Iím an ďxĒ who really arenít. The average accountant salary is less than $60k according to Google but I pay fresh out of college accountants $50-60 and most people on staff make $100+.

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