Real Estate Crash thread

[liv2ski]

I think that you misunderstood, he says "No Decreased Density Rezones"

But I agree, a lot of Foggy's ideas cannot be accomplished without raising taxes on the locals, which would have to be put to a vote, and if passed, would hurt locals even more. F-that. Need to figure out how to take money from the tourists, and 2nd homeowners, w/o hurting the locals. Lift ticket taxes, resort fees, STR taxes and licensing, etc.

However, taxing STR properties as commercial can open up a whole world of problems. Unintended, very bad, problems. El Paso county is trying it out, let them be the guinea pigs.

My town is a big tourist destination and the town raises a fuck ton of revenue from lodging occupancy tax, so there you go.

[Benny Profane]

I think that you misunderstood, he says "No Decreased Density Rezones"

But I agree, a lot of Foggy's ideas cannot be accomplished without raising taxes on the locals, which would have to be put to a vote, and if passed, would hurt locals even more. F-that. Need to figure out how to take money from the tourists, and 2nd homeowners, w/o hurting the locals. Lift ticket taxes, resort fees, STR taxes and licensing, etc.

However, taxing STR properties as commercial can open up a whole world of problems. Unintended, very bad, problems. El Paso county is trying it out, let them be the guinea pigs.

How about taxing the corporations that benefit from the workers being more mobile? If it's in anybody's interest, it's their's.

[Bunion 2020]

^^^ Holy fuck, a blind squirrel found an acorn. Great idea.

[Name Redacted]

Oh? I'm interested in the whole STR thing ever since the house next door became an STR. What are the problems you see around taxing them as commercial?

Here's an article about what would happen if CO started assessing STRs as commercial and taxing them:

https://coloradosun.com/2021/10/14/s...bill-colorado/

[Name Redacted]

How about taxing the corporations that benefit from the workers being more mobile? If it's in anybody's interest, it's their's.

Explain how that would work exactly. Summit county taxes a financial firm in NYC for letting their worker work remotely, and the worker spends the winter and summer in Breck, shoulder seasons in MX. Or Does NY tax the firm? Or is it a federal tax?

[mud]

^ That seems fair, You want to turn your home into a motel then pay the same taxes as the local inn.

[skaredshtles]

Here's an article about what would happen if CO started assessing STRs as commercial and taxing them:

https://coloradosun.com/2021/10/14/s...bill-colorado/

Looks good to me. Property taxes in Colorado are already absurdly low. And why *not* charge commercial rates if the property is being used commercially? It seems like and open/shut case.

Which means I'm probably not considering some important other stuff.

[Name Redacted]

You guys like the sound of the banks calling the notes on thousands of homes because overnight they are classified as commercial? I doubt that would have any unintended negative consequences.

Or stay anywhere other than your home for less than $750 a night?

[abraham]

And turning residences into businesses as short term rentals hasn't caused any issues anywhere. Especially not Colorado.

[liv2ski]

Occupancy tax of 12% is $36 bucks more a night, so how did you arrive at $750 a night?

[dan_pdx]

Looks good to me. Property taxes in Colorado are already absurdly low. And why *not* charge commercial rates if the property is being used commercially? It seems like and open/shut case.

Which means I'm probably not considering some important other stuff.

I felt the same way. Probably comes down to whether you own an STR or just live in neighborhoods that have them

[Name Redacted]

Occupancy tax of 12% is $36 bucks more a night, so how did you arrive at $750 a night?

Not sure where you got 12%.

[liv2ski]

12% is what the hotels charge in town for nightly occupancy tax to the town.

[Self Jupiter]

.

[Benny Profane]

Explain how that would work exactly. Summit county taxes a financial firm in NYC for letting their worker work remotely, and the worker spends the winter and summer in Breck, shoulder seasons in MX. Or Does NY tax the firm? Or is it a federal tax?

Works in NYC. Subways roll, schools everywhere, some excellent, public hospital system, and low property taxes. If you want to do business, grease the wheels.

[Skistack]

Any tourist-based economy that isn’t rolling in tax dollars is doing it wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Name Redacted]

12% is what the hotels charge in town for nightly occupancy tax to the town.

And that’s about what STRs are already paying. We are talking property taxes. Which is what the article was about.

[skaredshtles]

You guys like the sound of the banks calling the notes on thousands of homes because overnight they are classified as commercial? I doubt that would have any unintended negative consequences.

I wouldn't recommend simply switching it one day. Phase it in over a few years so that people that have *commercially* purchased property can decide how they want to handle the new rules.

Or stay anywhere other than your home for less than $750 a night?

Sounds like we're already there, in most resort communities...

[sirbumpsalot]

Employees are already supposed to be taxed in the state in which they perform the work unless its a temporary situation (like a business trip). If you become a remote worker from NYC in summit county you are required to inform your employer, get approval from them, and have withholding and unemployment taxes withheld from that state and ultimately honestly file in each state the money earned or the % of the year you were a resident. There are rules for defining "primary residence" in each state.

Reason you are to get approval is that your employer may not have legal tax authority to have employees in that state...but its not hard to get. Some employers however do not wish to do this.

Sure employees cheat this system all the time...but thats on the employee. If you know of someone you CAN report them to that states IRS office anonymously and even collect money that is collected from them in the end.

[Name Redacted]

Employees are already supposed to be taxed in the state in which they perform the work unless its a temporary situation (like a business trip). If you become a remote worker from NYC in summit county you are required to inform your employer, get approval from them, and have withholding and unemployment taxes withheld from that state and ultimately honestly file in each state the money earned or the % of the year you were a resident. There are rules for defining "primary residence" in each state.

Reason you are to get approval is that your employer may not have legal tax authority to have employees in that state...but its not hard to get. Some employers however do not wish to do this.

Sure employees cheat this system all the time...but thats on the employee. If you know of someone you CAN report them to that states IRS office anonymously and even collect money that is collected from them in the end.

But wouldnot you have to tax all of the employees in the state more? Can you really descriminate against WFHers? And in CO it would have to go to a vote. Good luck with that.

[Benny Profane]

A lot of this works in Vermont.

[Kevo]

Employees are already supposed to be taxed in the state in which they perform the work unless its a temporary situation (like a business trip). If you become a remote worker from NYC in summit county you are required to inform your employer, get approval from them, and have withholding and unemployment taxes withheld from that state and ultimately honestly file in each state the money earned or the % of the year you were a resident. There are rules for defining "primary residence" in each state.

Reason you are to get approval is that your employer may not have legal tax authority to have employees in that state...but its not hard to get. Some employers however do not wish to do this.

Sure employees cheat this system all the time...but thats on the employee. If you know of someone you CAN report them to that states IRS office anonymously and even collect money that is collected from them in the end.

+1. It's really easy to get a state employer identification number (it took 1-2 days in OR and ID for my company during the pandemic) and most modern payroll systems can easily be adjusted to allow for a worker in a new state so long as you have the state employer ID for tax purposes.

Conundrum made a good point a few pages back that employers don't pay corporate taxes in the states where employees work remote, but I've never worked for a private company whose highest level legal entity was based in the state where the corporate HQ was. Every company was based (on paper) in Delaware or Nevada or some other low corporate tax state.

[Name Redacted]

You guys just want to tax the shit out of everything don’t ya. And you really think that the benefit to society will be greater if you do and you’ll not see any of the consequences. “Yeah tax that guy out of business!” “Tax that guy because he ain’t from here!” Where does it stop? What are the consequences? It certainly is t black and white.

[sirbumpsalot]

+1. It's really easy to get a state employer identification number (it took 1-2 days in OR and ID for my company during the pandemic) and most modern payroll systems can easily be adjusted to allow for a worker in a new state so long as you have the state employer ID for tax purposes.

Conundrum made a good point a few pages back that employers don't pay corporate taxes in the states where employees work remote, but I've never worked for a private company whose highest level legal entity was based in the state where the corporate HQ was. Every company was based (on paper) in Delaware or Nevada or some other low corporate tax state.

Lets not focus only on the "EVIL GREEDY CORPORATIONS"....two play at that game:

I know of a person who works for a company in OREGON (10-13% tax rate), lives in CA full time as a covid WFH (similar tax rate) and owns property in WA and have listed their "primary residence" as WA with their employers and pay 0% state taxes and even haven't been to their WA place in well over a year or more.

This will all end soon as they are called back to work on site....but still...and I not naive to be convinced that this is a one-off.

[summit]

Taxing as commercial should be per diem for STR, not for owner occupied or LTR days.

ie, if I rent my primary residence out 2 weeks a year while I'm on vacation, then I pay 4% commercial and 96% residential rates.

If some owner STRs half the year and LTRs for 6 months in the summer, then 50/50.