Real Estate Crash thread

[XXX-er]

You're going to have a hard time if you ever move to Vancouver.



Attachment 413878

I was on the phone with some one who was obviously not Canadian so I asked buddy where he was calling from ? It was Bangalore and he said his name was ted so i asked if i was really expected to believe a guy from bangalore's name was TED and he said " it is today "

[BmillsSkier]

If that ice maker isn’t a Scotsman it’s crap, but I’m positive you know that.

I’d love to come see your work Fred, maybe that Viking range too.

[yeahman]

The whole anti-intellectual culture is so dumb. How dare you be smart and use your brain?

You might be surprised how much you have to use your brain on a construction site. It is often nonstop problem solving all day long. I've found it's way easier to fake it at a desk job. You know, take your shirt for a walk around the office a few times a day and BS with people. Hey let's go get a coffee, hey let's go to lunch. Now I'll sit at my desk and surf the internet, research my next weekend getaway. Maybe I'll get a few hours actual work done in an eight hour day. You know the drill right? I know people who've faked it for years like that, especially remote workers. Much harder to get away with that shit on a job site.

[rideit]

Based on that descriptive analysis, which one are you saying is dumber or smarter?

[Conundrum]

Which one is proud of their handshake?

[alpinevibes]

needs more knobs!

[schuss]

You might be surprised how much you have to use your brain on a construction site. It is often nonstop problem solving all day long. I've found it's way easier to fake it at a desk job. You know, take your shirt for a walk around the office a few times a day and BS with people. Hey let's go get a coffee, hey let's go to lunch. Now I'll sit at my desk and surf the internet, research my next weekend getaway. Maybe I'll get a few hours actual work done in an eight hour day. You know the drill right? I know people who've faked it for years like that, especially remote workers. Much harder to get away with that shit on a job site.

Man, the number of shovel leaners and morons just welding, cutting and rewelding their own dumb trash is not small. I've been in construction (albeit for a short period) and grew up as the son of a very hands-on architect on many a job site. Like I said before - I respect competent construction folk, regardless of which trade. Are there useless office workers? Absolutely, but I'm against all uselessness, and the work is often foundationally different. I can't count how many times I've been staring at the ceiling or a wall thinking through a tough problem, making no progress for days, only to figure it out and implement something that's basically worth hundreds of thousands to millions in insights (note - not tooting my own horn, just work for a large company so the money scales quickly on work improvement).
They're different work with different flows. In construction, 90% of the thinking has been done before the site has a shovel near it, be it production scheduling, materials or design work. In my world, that all happens all at once, so the pace is weird and different at times.
One thing remains the same though - not enough competent management.

[AdironRider]

Nobody is irreplaceable.

[XXX-er]

Seen it ^ happen a bunch of times in the big company, the tech guy with all the answers leaves and you wonder what the fuck we are gona do but somebody always stepped up

Small out fit the main man is the company

[schuss]

Nobody is irreplaceable.

To be irreplaceable is to be unpromoteable.

[rideit]

Nobody is irreplaceable.

Well, Jerry was irreplaceable.

[teleee]

In construction, 90% of the thinking has been done before the site has a shovel near it, be it production scheduling, materials or design work. In my world, that all happens all at once, so the pace is weird and different at times.

Man you have a very warped sense of construction, maybe dont talk about things you have no idea about? If one of my PM's sat and stared at the wall for hours trying to figure out a solution we would lose millions. I am sure you are good at what you do, but you have no idea what you are talking about.

[schuss]

Man you have a very warped sense of construction, maybe dont talk about things you have no idea about? If one of my PM's sat and stared at the wall for hours trying to figure out a solution we would lose millions. I am sure you are good at what you do, but you have no idea what you are talking about.

Really, so the architect didn't sit and think how to make a variety of treatments of large building with a hall or combinations of materials that would give a different feel or building envelope more in-line with the client's needs? PM's are implementers, not thinkers, generally. Though I'd imagine if you're doing a full WBS to figure out how to get a certain trade into a certain slot moving things around, that would likely take a while. I'm not talking about small scale detail work here, or sequencing knowns. I'm talking about the work in taking the unknown to known. I'd also bet in many cases you've lost days of real productivity because of people overlooking something or a delayed delivery. You can't honestly say your PMs do 100% efficient work 100% of the day. That's just fantasy. The best PM's I've known (software or construction) were often defined by their ability to sit through hours of bullshit to get to the truth of the work and who needed to do it so they could base their plans in reality.
In most of my cases, it was figuring out data flows and rules implementation for something that would integrate 20-30 sources of varying quality with a very tight set of system limitations, with the downside risk being a data breach where clients saw each others data, violating any number of worker/healthcare privacy laws in the process.

[Mustonen]

I DRIVE A DODGE STRATUS!

[Mustonen]

All Collars Matter

[Flounder]

Ah yes, a good architect vs contractor discussion. As some one up thread pointed out, incompetents are in every field. I went to work for an architect and was told I would be overseeing construction of a senior living facility that was just starting construction. First day I had to break it to the boss that the plans didn’t meet Vermont code or ADA. No idea how they managed to pull permits, obviously an incompetent reviewer. Spent the first couple of weeks reworking plans without delaying construction. I should have quit that first day but I stuck it out for 18 months working for that moran.

Two years ago on my own house we were adding dormers. There is one area where 3 different rooflines come together. I had all framing modeled in 3d because I knew it would be tricky. When they were getting ready to frame, I met the superintendent to go over how it needed to be framed. He told me I didn’t know what I was talking about and he could frame it much easier. He screwed around for an entire day making no progress and wasting lots of wood trying to frame it. The next morning he asked to look at the framing model and for me to go over it again. It was framed properly 2 hours later exactly how I told him it needed to be done the day before. Glad I had I fixed price contract instead of T&M.

There are people that should be smart that are idiots and there are those you think would be idiots that are super smart. It’s a basic fact of life.

[schuss]

Yep, my favorite was always when plumbers put toilets or sinks in the wrong place in the bathroom to make their job easier as most contractors would let it go and many architects barely visited sites. My dad would reliably say "interesting choice on the plumbing here", plumber would make up some bullshit about why they did that way, dad would nod and say "shame you have to rip it out and do it how the plan says on your dime now".
Cue either defeated look or adult throwing a toddler tantrum.

[alias_rice]

I DRIVE A DODGE STRATUS!

Yeah but I bet you had to finance your waterbed.

[teleee]

Yep, my favorite was always when plumbers put toilets or sinks in the wrong place in the bathroom to make their job easier as most contractors would let it go and many architects barely visited sites. My dad would reliably say "interesting choice on the plumbing here", plumber would make up some bullshit about why they did that way, dad would nod and say "shame you have to rip it out and do it how the plan says on your dime now".
Cue either defeated look or adult throwing a toddler tantrum.

So your favorite is when somebody has to spend hard earned money to re do something. Nice!
Mine happens to be when the Owner, Designer, Inspectors, Contractor even the public all work together as a team to make sure everyone has a positive experience. But thats just me. Maybe the heavy civil world is different

[Mustonen]

Yeah but I bet you had to finance your waterbed.

You do not talk to me that way! I am a division manager!!!

[schuss]

So your favorite is when somebody has to spend hard earned money to re do something. Nice!
Mine happens to be when the Owner, Designer, Inspectors, Contractor even the public all work together as a team to make sure everyone has a positive experience. But thats just me. Maybe the heavy civil world is different

When someone is given a plan and deviates from it because they don't feel like doing the work - sure.

I think your teamwork thing is better too, but it's rare you see all parties pull together like that.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Sounds like Schuss's Dad hired some hacks!

I think I should be excited that nobody wants to do my job. I'm not sure why. I only know what I know but I see a bunch of smart, happy, well paid workers on my jobsites. I pretty much everything Telee says is true about custom home building. But yeah, go team khaki's, just don't bitch when your contractor sends you the bill.

[teleee]

Sounds like Schuss's Dad hired some hacks!

I think I should be excited that nobody wants to do my job. I'm not sure why. I only know what I know but I see a bunch of smart, happy, well paid workers on my jobsites. I pretty much everything Telee says is true about custom home building. But yeah, go team khaki's, just don't bitch when your contractor sends you the bill.

Maybe the workers picked on him when he tagged along to jobsites? I’m not sure what is rare about not working as a team…
I have had one project in the last 5 years where that wasn’t the case. And yep it was partly out fault.
In the heavy civil design build world if you don’t work as a team pretty soon you won’t be working period.


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[Foggy_Goggles]

Oh, and I've never seen a plumber arbitrarily change the locations of a shitter in 25+ years of doing this. There are shitbags that are bad at their jobs everywhere. Quit with the bullshit backstepping. This ain't physicists vs. grave diggers. People chose their professions for all types of reasons. To categorize the average white collar worker as more intellectual that the average blue collar worker is stupid.

[teleee]

Oh, and I've never seen a plumber arbitrarily change the locations of a shitter in 25+ years of doing this. There are shitbags that are bad at their jobs everywhere. Quit with the bullshit backstepping. This ain't physicists vs. grave diggers. People chose their professions for all types of reasons. To categorize the average white collar worker as more intellectual that the average blue collar worker is stupid.

And its fucking offensive. Yea I very seldom get out on the job site anymore, my days are spent on zoom calls, flying to meetings and answering a constant stream of emails and corporate paperwork bullshit, but I never lost track that the guys who make it all work are out on a bridge somewhere with a set of bags on.


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