Real Estate Crash thread

[snowaddict91]

Totally. I moved to CO straight after high school and it wasn't hard to figure that part out. I've showed cool people around the hill and I've left douchy people standing at the top of the lift.

[skaredshtles]

It's all relative. The person I interviewed for my podcast this morning was in Aspen for a year in the late 60's and thought it was too crowded then...

Yep. Once you've been somewhere for 25 years, I think it's just how it works.

So it goes. -Kurt Vonnegut

[liv2ski]

If you guys think skiing is crowded, try surfing in So Cal. That has become funkin nutz over the years and now, nobody works, so the lineups are crazy and at any good peak, guys are getting pissed.

[365wp]

At Winter Park, the sell out locals will guide you to the stashes.

Woah, that's an interesting outcome of the gig economy. Sounds like MJ is a little different from 15+ years ago, when we used to roll up and walk past the campers in the front row cooking breakfast.

We considered the Seattle, Portland, UT, Denver, and the WP/Grand Lake regions before moving to VT a couple years ago. Still think we made the right call. I wanted to be under an hour to the mountain, even if the average snowfall is a little lower at 300". I'd also say our work commutes went from 90min each way to 15min each way, but nowadays that's not such a big deal.

[yeahman]

Pulled my first errant driver of the season out of the ditch yesterday, Oct. 27, a new record. "She just arrived from California" said the trooper who had stopped to help. We smiled at each other. He drove her car while I pulled...he said thanks, she said nothing. Welcome to Montana lady.

[fastfred]

T
I'm gonna grab a beer and walk the dog. I wonder if any of the AirBnBrs are gonna get pissy because I don't have a leash?

LOL that was good everyone gets pissy when they see my dog not on a leash this early summer he tore ass through downtown chasing a fox I thought I was going to get cruxified by a mob I yelled once hey get back here he always comes back just on his own time

we can all sit back and bitch about how it once was a good friend used to open the door of his place in town 25 years ago and let his dog out the dog in the morning and the dog would be waiting at the ski/bike shop when he got to work a couple hours later the good old days are long gone people suck balls for the most part and the cool people just shadows in the shit storm that has become ski town living

pack up and leave I got a list of places you can go but thats my sercret list for now I deal with it make money and buy sprinter vans

[SKIP IN7RO]

she said nothing. Welcome to Montana lady.

See you next Tuesday.

[Toadman]

Woah, that's an interesting outcome of the gig economy. Sounds like MJ is a little different from 15+ years ago, when we used to roll up and walk past the campers in the front row cooking breakfast.

We considered the Seattle, Portland, UT, Denver, and the WP/Grand Lake regions before moving to VT a couple years ago. Still think we made the right call. I wanted to be under an hour to the mountain, even if the average snowfall is a little lower at 300". I'd also say our work commutes went from 90min each way to 15min each way, but nowadays that's not such a big deal.

Does that 300" include the 50" of man made? Or is that natural? I didn't think anywhere but Jay Peak got over 300" out East.

[neufox47]

Observing it or talking about it? I've mostly moved on but it makes me sad...like I said...I'm just one more transplant that got here before the next guy. What is truly surprising is how good we had it for so long. Now it is over. I'll figure something out, not too worried.

People have been saying that to one degree or another since the “west was won”. 20, 40, 60 years from now people will probably be saying the same thing.

[ötzi]

I mean there's a shitload of people and it's a fucked-up time. Of course things are changing. But no reason to stay in a place that makes you sad, maybe buy a Sprinter like Fred said and spend some time finding somewhere else.

Foggy though, that flat emotional feeling isn't really how things should be. I'm not saying you're depressed, but that's a classic symptom. I'm sure I'm way off base and sorry but just sayin.

[365wp]

Does that 300" include the 50" of man made? Or is that natural? I didn't think anywhere but Jay Peak got over 300" out East.

Yeah, Jay wins, say 355" average . Stowe is around 305-314" according to a couple sites I found. Our home mountain is a little lower, and doesn't have as much snow making coverage, but is less crowded.

[babybear]

Yeah, Jay wins, say 355" average . Stowe is around 305-314" according to a couple sites I found. Our home mountain is a little lower, and doesn't have as much snow making coverage, but is less crowded.

don’t forget to minus a couple dozen of those inches when the January rains come.

[Foggy_Goggles]

I mean there's a shitload of people and it's a fucked-up time. Of course things are changing. But no reason to stay in a place that makes you sad, maybe buy a Sprinter like Fred said and spend some time finding somewhere else.

Foggy though, that flat emotional feeling isn't really how things should be. I'm not saying you're depressed, but that's a classic symptom. I'm sure I'm way off base and sorry but just sayin.

Thanks for thinking of my but that it not my challenge in life. My rant was more focused on that change to the mountain west has developed too much inertia. I do my part to shepard it a little bit but if you get in the way you will just be run over. A not so subtle change has been that we are no longer a community that serves tourists. We are a community that serves second home owners and wealthy retirees and work from homers and trust funders and so on. 20+ years ago the mindset was "you better be nice too the goobs because they are the ones that keep the lights on". The us vs. them was very defined. Now the us vs. them much more nebulous. It is still awesome, just different and less awesome.

[glademaster]

I just prefer to drag those fuckheads through a keyhole whenever they want to remodel their house. "We're not happy, until you're not happy."

[Mazderati]

First order of business after getting into the club is keeping people out of the club.

[Benny Profane]

don’t forget to minus a couple dozen of those inches when the January rains come.

And the December, February, March and April rains, too.

[yeahman]

See you next Tuesday.

Had to Google that one. Lol

[babybear]

And the December, February, March and April rains, too.

I'm still excited for my poconos trip as soon as this pandemic lightens up

and I never minded skiing in the rain when I lived in VT- the snow was softer

[goldenboy]

A not so subtle change has been that we are no longer a community that serves tourists. We are a community that serves second home owners and wealthy retirees and work from homers and trust funders and so on. 20+ years ago the mindset was "you better be nice too the goobs because they are the ones that keep the lights on". The us vs. them was very defined. Now the us vs. them much more nebulous. It is still awesome, just different and less awesome.

That's about the most succinct way I've ever heard someone put it.

[Foggy_Goggles]

First order of business after getting into the club is keeping people out of the club.

That is an intellectual cop out that gets thrown around by tone deaf outsiders. It perpetuates the stereotype of the town "just got better 'cause I showed up" go getter. Or you could say, "before joining a club, I suggest observing the club from a distance. Have an honest discussion with yourself about if your goals and ideals align with those in the club"

Or you could just go to the first meeting, tell everyone there that that are doing it wrong, tout all the experience gained elsewhere, act like the fucking second coming and just generally wipes your ass with the throw pillows. This is usually shortly followed by some rant about how the locals ain't friendly and fuck this place.

Fundamentally, it comes down to a question of what is a community and what right a community has to define itself.

[altasnob]

I much rather live in a community that serves work from homers, trust funders, retirees, ect, than an community that serves tourists. At least the former care about building a community. Tourist towns are kitschy and full of low paying jobs that don't provide a living wage.

Leavenworth, WA, probably the biggest tourist town in WA, is going through this phenomenon. The old time residents make their money off the tourists (it's a Bavarian themed town with no connection to Germany). There are plans to build an amusement park right where the Class 6 Wenatchee River rumbles into town (an awesome site at high water in the Spring). The long time locals support this because it will bring in more tourist. The new, wealthy, transplants oppose. I have friends that recently moved there (one a doctor in town, the other commutes to Wenatchee). There is a proposal for a new swimming pool and community center funded by a property tax increase. The long time locals oppose. The new transplants want it. I imagine this sort of dichotomy popping up all over.

[hawkgt]

That is an intellectual cop out that gets thrown around by tone deaf outsiders. It perpetuates the stereotype of the town "just got better 'cause I showed up" go getter. Or you could say, "before joining a club, I suggest observing the club from a distance. Have an honest discussion with yourself about if your goals and ideals align with those in the club"

Or you could just go to the first meeting, tell everyone there that that are doing it wrong, tout all the experience gained elsewhere, act like the fucking second coming and just generally wipes your ass with the throw pillows. This is usually shortly followed by some rant about how the locals ain't friendly and fuck this place.

Fundamentally, it comes down to a question of what is a community and what right a community has to define itself.

This is interesting foggy, thanks for sharing. You mention the first meeting, do you feel local politics is to free with the development? Too commercially focused? Is it really just $$$ from second owners showing up for a few weeks a yr to bitch.

I dont have a solution, I'm in the burbs now but past homes were in a great community that supported 2nd homes (lake homes) and tourists. Definitely a us vs them depending on where around the lake, I had a great community that was nearly all full time home owners, alot of contractors and retires. Never locked my door, all the kids hung out together, neighbors just show up to shoot the shit or help out, it was great. That time in life ended and eventually ended back in CO by choice. I miss the community you mention of....

edit: cant type

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

Fundamentally, it comes down to a question of what is a community and what right a community has to define itself.

Foggy, I may be way wrong on this, but don't you work in construction? Do you pick and choose your jobs to not support/work for/profit off these newcomers? Same with Goldenboy. Clearly you're profiting off newcomers. Yet you're supporting an us vs. them attitude and bemoaning change in your community. Is the thought just that you guys have already lost/your community is toast so you're just gonna make your money and bitch about newcomers until you can get out?

[fastfred]

a buddy who does property managment said he'd take a texan over a front range property owner any day

[Foggy_Goggles]

I've got as many anecdotes as the day is long but I gotta get back to work. Style matter, life is more about executions than concepts. I'm not anti-development, I simply feel that the true cost of development needs to be born by those that benefit from the development vs. some, "it'll be great for everyone, just hook me up!" businesses model that is frequent. The water district that I am Treasurer for has been in a many year negotiation to provide service to a long time platted subdivision. Our stance is, "the viability of your business venture is not our problem". We go out of pocket zero $. But we have no backs to scratch, no developers, realtors, excavation contractors etc. on the board. It doesn't usually go down like that.

The community/culture thing is weird. He is an example for those that know the area. Rocky Mountain Moonshine/Liquor Barn used to be a gas station. About 15 years ago they finally took out the islands and bollards where the pumps used to be. People still park like it is a gas station and you were pulling up to the pump. If you roll in on a Friday afternoon when the contractors are grabbing a 12 and park nose it like every other person in the world, you'll get blocked in. Every local in the store will smile at each other as the out a towner goes outside and tries to figure out what is going on. Does that make us assholes or is that just the way we do it? How do you think that person is gonna park next time?