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  1. #16476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    They did quite well during WW2, and, thank the lord, because that's basically how we beat Hitler and the Japanese, by just throwing plane after plane and ships at them long after they lost their capacity to do the same. But, hey, war is money.
    That and they got the Russians to throw a couple million bodies at the problem as well.
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  2. #16477
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    That helped.

  3. #16478
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Dude, we can't even get half of the people to wear masks and get vaccinated during a plague.
    Yeah - that's why I'm probably not going to hold my breath that we'll put 21st century infrastructure on the federal "important list of things to get done."

    Ah, well - I guess I can always emigrate to Italy, right?

  4. #16479
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    China, dude, if shiny new trains are important. But Europe is pretty cool, too, Downtown to downtown. Fuck, you can ride a high speed from London and Paris to the base of Les Arc, and then there's another train running up the side of the mountain to the villages.

  5. #16480
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    There is absolutely no doubt.

    It's really a shame that we dumped/still dump all that money into roads instead of rails, though...
    Yep - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/...ia-2021-07-20/

    Rode one of those fancy high speed Commie Chinese trains a few years ago. Pretty impressive. Went from the Equivalent of LA to SFO in about 3 hours 30 minutes. Probably take almost 3x that time on Amtrak.
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  6. #16481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    China, dude, if shiny new trains are important. But Europe is pretty cool, too, Downtown to downtown. Fuck, you can ride a high speed from London and Paris to the base of Les Arc, and then there's another train running up the side of the mountain to the villages.
    Yup. We rode the rails back in '99 all over Europe. Shit - we even rode the train *above* the Arctic Circle in Norway.

    So the whole "can't do it here 'cause there's a lot of empty space" argument rings hollow to me.

  7. #16482
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    There is absolutely no doubt.

    It's really a shame that we dumped/still dump all that money into roads instead of rails, though...
    we dumped money into cars. The roads followed. The vast majority of between city trips in 1916 were by rail; by 1940 (preww2 for us) ~90% were by car. Highways followed. You’d need to go back 100 years to change because we built almost everything for cars.

    the “it’s empty” argument seems to ignore the minimal needs of bumfuckistanis to do anything but suck tax dollars, shitpost, and rant about gay transsexual whale abortionists I.e they ain’t going anywhere

  8. #16483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadman View Post
    Yep - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/...ia-2021-07-20/

    Rode one of those fancy high speed Commie Chinese trains a few years ago. Pretty impressive. Went from the Equivalent of LA to SFO in about 3 hours 30 minutes. Probably take almost 3x that time on Amtrak.
    Yep - we rode the train a couple summers back from Venice to Florence... I think it was about 2-1/2 hours with stops in Padua and Bologna IIRC.

  9. #16484
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    we dumped money into cars. The roads followed. The vast majority of between city trips in 1916 were by rail; by 1940 (preww2 for us) ~90% were by car. Highways followed. You’d need to go back 100 years to change because we built almost everything for cars.
    Which, in hindsight, was probably a mistake, eh? So what do we do? Just keep throwing money at auto infrastructure? Or accept that it was a mistake and move in a different direction?

    Those questions are all rhetorical, for the record...

  10. #16485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadman View Post
    Yep - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/...ia-2021-07-20/

    Rode one of those fancy high speed Commie Chinese trains a few years ago. Pretty impressive. Went from the Equivalent of LA to SFO in about 3 hours 30 minutes. Probably take almost 3x that time on Amtrak.
    I've ridden some Chinese high speed rail - nice. They've built like 10k miles of high speed track since 2010ish. We can't even get LA - SF built after hosing money at it. And they have a goddamn maglev as their airport train in Shanghai. Ever taken the PATH train to get to Newark airport? No wonder we're losing.

  11. #16486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    The woman I’m currently seeing is a model of Spartan-ism. I’m like the old guy with the garage full of shit.
    A model of Spartan-eity?



    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    Yup. We rode the rails back in '99 all over Europe. Shit - we even rode the train *above* the Arctic Circle in Norway.

    So the whole "can't do it here 'cause there's a lot of empty space" argument rings hollow to me.
    We can't do it here because there aren't enough people to pay for tickets in the empty areas and subsidizing the train lives would be either socialism (bad!) or crony capitalism due to lobbying (differently bad!).

  12. #16487
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan_pdx View Post
    I've ridden some Chinese high speed rail - nice. They've built like 10k miles of high speed track since 2010ish. We can't even get LA - SF built after hosing money at it. And they have a goddamn maglev as their airport train in Shanghai. Ever taken the PATH train to get to Newark airport? Goddamn, no wonder we're losing.
    Property rights are also basically not a thing there, so I think we need to have some perspective other than "we are losing".
    Live Free or Die

  13. #16488
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    Property rights are also basically not a thing there, so I think we need to have some perspective other than "we are losing".
    libertarians, always crying muh “property rights”

  14. #16489
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraham View Post
    A model of Spartan-eity?




    We can't do it here because there aren't enough people to pay for tickets in the empty areas and subsidizing the train lives would be either socialism (bad!) or crony capitalism due to lobbying (differently bad!).
    So we bail out the airlines and help fabulously rich airline CEOs and some shareholders keep their lifestyles in good old America.

  15. #16490
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraham View Post
    A model of Spartan-eity?
    Heh. As a matter of fact…

  16. #16491
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    libertarians, always crying muh “property rights”
    Certainly you see there are some benefits to the concept.

    Or maybe not, its totally black and white. Go to China if you think its so great, I'm sure they'll welcome you with open arms. I'm sure your whole routine Hugh will go over great there.
    Live Free or Die

  17. #16492
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan_pdx View Post
    I've ridden some Chinese high speed rail - nice. They've built like 10k miles of high speed track since 2010ish. We can't even get LA - SF built after hosing money at it. And they have a goddamn maglev as their airport train in Shanghai. Ever taken the PATH train to get to Newark airport? No wonder we're losing.
    Haha - Yes, way too many times on that damn PATH train.

    Was not at all impressed with TGV from Lausanne to Paris. I think we hit 200 MPH for a few minutes about 30 minutes outside of Paris. But large stretches of 150 MPH or slower. Shanghai to Hangzhou we hit 300 MPH or long stretches of 250 MPH. Smooth as glass. So much concrete and steel in those tracks. Just crazy to think about the manhours and material to build those high speed rail lines out. Only in a country with 1.3 billion people and no OSHA is that possible at the speed they rolled it out.
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  18. #16493
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraham View Post
    We can't do it here because there aren't enough people to pay for tickets in the empty areas
    Don't stop in the empty areas. I suspect you'd fill all the trains up traveling between Kansas City and Denver if the trip took 4 hours. Chicago to Denver in 8 hours? Yes, please.

    Throw in once of those services where the rails take your personal car to your destination and it would become even MORE enticing.

  19. #16494
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    Certainly you see there are some benefits to the concept.

    Or maybe not, its totally black and white. Go to China if you think its so great, I'm sure they'll welcome you with open arms. I'm sure your whole routine Hugh will go over great there.
    ive been to China, dumbfuck, and half of the grinding shiftiness is because aspects were a libertarian fantasy. The other half was commie evil. But I don’t see “property rights” in the terms of western us “muh stolen from the Indians and given to me by the gubmint land is my inviolable castle”

  20. #16495
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    Which, in hindsight, was probably a mistake, eh? So what do we do? Just keep throwing money at auto infrastructure? Or accept that it was a mistake and move in a different direction?

    Those questions are all rhetorical, for the record...
    the people spoke. The problem was more we stopped planning and building for the future. Like the overcrowded “great” national parks. They started with big railway hotels. Those hotels got old, the park service added motels, but there was no room for future growth.

  21. #16496
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    ive been to China, dumbfuck, and half of the grinding shiftiness is because aspects were a libertarian fantasy. The other half was commie evil. But I don’t see “property rights” in the terms of western us “muh stolen from the Indians and given to me by the gubmint land is my inviolable castle”
    You and Benny are really cut from the same cloth sometimes. Bless your hearts.
    Live Free or Die

  22. #16497
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    You and Benny are really cut from the same cloth sometimes. Bless your hearts.
    funny, you sound like Benny when called on his bullshit here.

  23. #16498
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoooR View Post
    That is one I'm 100% for. The relief on that road and the lives saved in accidents. Convincing somebody from Denver to take rail to Vail should be pretty easy.
    Shout out to Ali Hassan and his $352k campaign for CO House District 56 in 2008!

  24. #16499
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Like Switzerland... $35 for a bistro hamburger... inflation and restaurants shutting down...
    Restaurants shutting down? You haven't been to Switzerland pre covid, have you?
    It's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.

  25. #16500
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    ive been to China, dumbfuck, and half of the grinding shiftiness is because aspects were a libertarian fantasy. The other half was commie evil. But I don’t see “property rights” in the terms of western us “muh stolen from the Indians and given to me by the gubmint land is my inviolable castle”
    Dude, there is no private ownership of land in China. Hell, there's essentially no private ownership of anything. Talk to Jack Ma about that. This country's whole early economy and expansion was based on private ownership of land.

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