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  1. #22251
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    6,625
    Got this in my email box this morning;

    Vote to Limit “Fractional Share”, Timeshare and Corporate Occupancy

    Say NO to Short-Term Occupancy.

    Last fall Owners in our HOA passed an amendment to the CC&R’s to prohibit short-term rentals, defined as rental periods of less than 30 days. An overwhelming majority, 85% to 15%, wanted to ensure short-term occupancy of homes within our community was not allowed. At the time we began this balloting process in 2020, VRBO-like rentals were the primary concern relative to short-term, transient use of properties. There are now other threats rapidly developing in the real estate arena, including one that focuses on “fractional share ownership or use”, which typically targets eight owners sharing a home. They are similar to timeshares, but with fewer owners. There are two companies we are aware of in the Central Oregon market that are now purchasing homes and then trying to immediately sell fractional shares in these properties. One is Pacaso Homes (pacaso.com), and the other is Ember (emberhome.com).

    Per reviewing their websites, a 1/8th ownership in a home typically results in the following:

    • An Owner gets 44-45 days of usage per year of the property

    • That typically happens over 6-7 visits (6-7 day average per visit, meaning that every week a different Owner comes in)

    • On an exception bases, the maximum length of a stay is 14 days, i.e. their model mandates short-term stays

    • The home cannot be rented but an owner can designate “registered guests”, which can be anybody the owner wants. An Owner does not have to be present for any such stay.



    One home has already been purchased by Pacaso within our HOA, and the sale of fractional shares in this home is currently being marketed. Therefore, it is with a sense of urgency that we are recommending that we quickly vote to amend our CC&R’s to prohibit this fractional share ownership structure, any timeshare structure, and any other workaround-type structure that currently exists or may be developed for the purpose of creating short-term occupancy use of a home. We can’t necessarily stop the one home that was already purchased, but we can impact all future such transactions with an approved amendment.
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  2. #22252
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    PRB
    Posts
    28,419
    Paging Art Shirk to the white courtesy phone!
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "I'd eat a bag of Dicks and wash it down with a Coke any day." - iceman

  3. #22253
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dystopia
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    16,800
    How the fuck do you sell fractional shares in a hoa?

  4. #22254
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    At the beach
    Posts
    17,119
    I have seen them for years as condos in B.C. (Victoria). The buyers obviously all participate in utilities, HOA and special assessment fees.
    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    I think you'd have an easier time understanding people if you remembered that 80% of them are fucking morons.
    That is why I like dogs, more than most people.

  5. #22255
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    your vacation
    Posts
    3,562
    Quote Originally Posted by Toadman View Post
    Got this in my email box this morning;
    these companies have been around for awhile now
    one of them just folded recently based out of denver can't remember the details

    it's a pyramid scheme unfortunately they need lots of buys and need to see 9/8 ownership not 8/8 to survive
    the numbers don't add up and like a time share the maintenance costs are sorta hidden and will give the buyer a suprise at some point

    just had a good discussion about south park (fairplay colorado) area today the writing is on the wall over there
    way too over valued and one too many homeowner builds plus people who think they can build cheap over there lots of unfinished properties and lots of over valued homes on the market just sitting and other people who realized they bought a house at the end of shitty dirt road

  6. #22256
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    10,380
    Used to do some work with a COA that was fractional. Pain in the ass. They fired me-probably because they didn't want to hear what they needed to. Four buildings needed new roofs for a total of about $180k. They voted no because they didn't want the assessment. Without deep details, a few other bills came up due to the lack of upkeep and those bills were a lot more than $180k.
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Well, I'm not allowed to delete this post, but, I can say, go fuck yourselves, everybody!

  7. #22257
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    24,908
    Quote Originally Posted by liv2ski View Post
    I have seen them for years as condos in B.C. (Victoria). The buyers obviously all participate in utilities, HOA and special assessment fees.
    Yeah, you see quite a few in Whistler, too. Not sure why there would be anything shady about it and it makes more sense to me than having lots of vacation homes that sit empty for the majority of the year. Seems like some people want it both ways: no STRs and no homes sitting vacant and that's impossible to achieve.

  8. #22258
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    1,666
    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    Seems like some people want it both ways: no STRs and no homes sitting vacant and that's impossible to achieve.
    I believe the dream is to have all housing for locals only, while not losing out on any of the benefits that visitors bring to a vacation town. (I say this only slightly facetiously, as a ski town local.)

  9. #22259
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    In a van... down by the river
    Posts
    10,075
    Quote Originally Posted by Conundrum View Post
    <snip> Four buildings needed new roofs for a total of about $180k. They voted no because they didn't want the assessment. Without deep details, a few other bills came up due to the lack of upkeep and those bills were a lot more than $180k.

  10. #22260
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Idaho
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    10,380
    Indeed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Well, I'm not allowed to delete this post, but, I can say, go fuck yourselves, everybody!

  11. #22261
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
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    关你屁事
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    7,184
    Quote Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong View Post
    I believe the dream is to have all housing for locals only, while not losing out on any of the benefits that visitors bring to a vacation town. (I say this only slightly facetiously, as a ski town local.)
    thats 100% what some towns want, if you define local asĒperson whoís check cashedĒ

  12. #22262
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    11,079
    Mayor in one of our local towns states outright that he wishes he could figure out a way to go after second homeowners like they have the STRs.

  13. #22263
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hood River
    Posts
    560
    Quote Originally Posted by Core Shot View Post
    Iíve been a fan of shadowstats since the feds stopped counting inflation the way they used to.
    Substitution is bullshit.

    Iím not sure they are legit. But our government lies to us. So I trust independent sites more than the fed.

    Ymmv. Or. Just look at your bills and expenses.

    Hereís the beginning of the discrepancy

    Attachment 420190
    This is the dumbest chart I have ever seen. The "real" inflation would have been 10% on avg since 2005? Compounded that would be a x5 in 17 years (2005-2022).
    Just about NOTHING went x5 in that period, let alone a basket of goods.

  14. #22264
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Nhampshire
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    7,063
    Quote Originally Posted by Name Redacted View Post
    Mayor in one of our local towns states outright that he wishes he could figure out a way to go after second homeowners like they have the STRs.
    In many spots they have a separate set of prop tax rates if it's not your primary residence.

  15. #22265
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    1,666
    Quote Originally Posted by Mani_UT View Post
    This is the dumbest chart I have ever seen. The "real" inflation would have been 10% on avg since 2005? Compounded that would be a x5 in 17 years (2005-2022).
    Just about NOTHING went x5 in that period, let alone a basket of goods.
    Your memory must just be poor. I graduated college just about 17 years ago, and was making about $50k/yr. Living large: driving a brand new BMW M3 that only cost me $15k, renting a fantastic apartment for only $400/month. Taking my future wife out to a fancy dinner only cost $20! Amazing times!

  16. #22266
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,344
    17 years ago? Oh man, a long distance phone call was like .75/min. I'd hate to think of what that costs today! Don't get me started on vulcanization fees in the modern era! Have you priced Kinkos mimeographs lately?


  17. #22267
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    6,625
    Quote Originally Posted by Core Shot View Post
    How the fuck do you sell fractional shares in a hoa?
    It's not fractional ownership in an HOA, it's fractional ownership of a house that is in the HOA neighborhood. Last week a Redfin listing popped up in my inbox for a fractional ownership of 45 days. Cost was around $450k. Selling 8 shares. This house is not worth $3.6 million. It's a big house, but no way is it worth more than maybe $2 million. I will see if I can find the listing and post it.
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  18. #22268
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    Aug 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlMega View Post
    17 years ago? Oh man, a long distance phone call was like .75/min. I'd hate to think of what that costs today! Don't get me started on vulcanization fees in the modern era! Have you priced Kinkos mimeographs lately?

    2005? long distance was free with cells. I think you mean 27 or 37 years

    $15k m3 weren’t a thing

  19. #22269
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dystopia
    Posts
    16,800
    Quote Originally Posted by Mani_UT View Post
    This is the dumbest chart I have ever seen. The "real" inflation would have been 10% on avg since 2005? Compounded that would be a x5 in 17 years (2005-2022).
    Just about NOTHING went x5 in that period, let alone a basket of goods.
    Yes. Itís legit unless you substitute

    Quote Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong View Post
    Your memory must just be poor. I graduated college just about 17 years ago, and was making about $50k/yr. Living large: driving a brand new BMW M3 that only cost me $15k, renting a fantastic apartment for only $400/month. Taking my future wife out to a fancy dinner only cost $20! Amazing times!
    Yep.


    Quote Originally Posted by Toadman View Post
    It's not fractional ownership in an HOA, it's fractional ownership of a house that is in the HOA neighborhood. Last week a Redfin listing popped up in my inbox for a fractional ownership of 45 days. Cost was around $450k. Selling 8 shares. This house is not worth $3.6 million. It's a big house, but no way is it worth more than maybe $2 million. I will see if I can find the listing and post it.
    My point was that with a HOA, how the fuck can you do fractional ownership. Unless itís in the bylaws. HOA is supposed to keep shit legit.

  20. #22270
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Splat's Garage
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    3,894
    Quote Originally Posted by Core Shot View Post

    My point was that with a HOA, how the fuck can you do fractional ownership. Unless it’s in the bylaws. HOA is supposed to keep shit legit.
    I'd say HOA would have to prevent LLC's from owning the property which I'm sure most will not do since it is so common.

  21. #22271
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    6,625
    Quote Originally Posted by Core Shot View Post
    My point was that with a HOA, how the fuck can you do fractional ownership. Unless it’s in the bylaws. HOA is supposed to keep shit legit.
    Okay, gotcha. HOA is slow to the party. Amongst other things.

    Here's the listing. My bad, house is bigger than I remembered. Probably could get about $2.6-$2.8 million for it pre mortgage rate hike. Might be tough now.

    https://www.pacaso.com/listings/3345...2-f91f317c2ba3

    Well, Pacaso actually paid over market - No wonder the owners sold to the highest corporate bidder. Weren't we just having this discussion...

    https://www.redfin.com/OR/Bend/3345-.../home/77535326
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  22. #22272
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dystopia
    Posts
    16,800
    Holy fuck. Pacasso got called an asshole.

    I didn’t know that was possible. I mean yeah. There’s timeshares or fractional ownership in large buildings. But a random single family nice house going fractional?
    That’s insane.

  23. #22273
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    2,560
    Quote Originally Posted by Toadman View Post
    Okay, gotcha. HOA is slow to the party. Amongst other things.

    Here's the listing. My bad, house is bigger than I remembered. Probably could get about $2.6-$2.8 million for it pre mortgage rate hike. Might be tough now.

    https://www.pacaso.com/listings/3345...2-f91f317c2ba3

    Well, Pacaso actually paid over market - No wonder the owners sold to the highest corporate bidder. Weren't we just having this discussion...

    https://www.redfin.com/OR/Bend/3345-.../home/77535326
    Interesting that the fractional price is the same as the price they paid. Assume there's owner's/management fees they are taking or there doesn't seem to be much benefit to them. For a lot of people, this type of arrangement makes sense. I know that I likely wouldn't use a vacation home much more than 7 weeks a year until I retire. This helps keep the cost more reasonable and you can still get access in nice locations. Not much different than families/friends have been doing forever. Just adding a Corp in the middle to keep things from getting personal.

  24. #22274
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hood River
    Posts
    560
    Quote Originally Posted by Core Shot View Post
    Yes. It’s legit unless you substitute
    .
    Huh no.
    Pick up what you want. Truck? Not x5. House? Not time 5. Eggs? Meat? definitely not x5. I have a spread sheet with every purchase I have made (from a single coffee on) since 2008 (missing 3 years to 2005 granted) and no. Nothing went x5 let alone an average of everything.

    A VW passat was 25/30k in 2005. Do you think it's 125/150k now? LOL.

  25. #22275
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Mountains, Trees, and a Big Blue Lake
    Posts
    620
    Quote Originally Posted by Mani_UT View Post
    This is the dumbest chart I have ever seen. The "real" inflation would have been 10% on avg since 2005? Compounded that would be a x5 in 17 years (2005-2022).
    Just about NOTHING went x5 in that period, let alone a basket of goods.
    You suck at math. 10% inflation doubles every 7 years. So about 2.5xs not 10.

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