Page 310 of 1076 FirstFirst ... 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 ... LastLast
Results 7,726 to 7,750 of 26889
  1. #7726
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    your vacation
    Posts
    4,718
    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    You're the high-rollin' businessman...


    .
    I use my dad's account don't be fooled

  2. #7727
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    In a van... down by the river
    Posts
    13,654
    Quote Originally Posted by fastfred View Post
    I use my dad's account don't be fooled
    Sorry.

    "High-rolling trustafarian."

    That better?


  3. #7728
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    your vacation
    Posts
    4,718
    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    Sorry.

    "High-rolling trustafarian."

    That better?

    more or less brah
    now if his hobby venture fund would just cash out on this business they've been pumping my trust fund into for the past five years I'd be more liquid

  4. #7729
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    In a van... down by the river
    Posts
    13,654
    Quote Originally Posted by fastfred View Post
    more or less brah
    now if his hobby venture fund would just cash out on this business they've been pumping my trust fund into for the past five years I'd be more liquid
    Nobody said ballin' was gonna be easy.

  5. #7730
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Nashville TN
    Posts
    1,054
    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    Hey, man... cut him some slack. It's not like it's a *real* Porsche.

    zinggg! I know Luke by the way, so taking more liberties effing with him than I would a stranger.

    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    I'm wealthy, and the household makes just a bit over $200K in the Denver area.

    And no, we aren't dentists.

    Despite being wealthy, we live a very middle-class existence. No car payments (in fact, no vehicles have less than 100K miles on them), no 2nd house/condo in the mountains, no big fancy McMansion.

    So perhaps it's possible to be wealthy AND middle-class at the same time?

    My main "goal" (I use that term very loosely) is to retire *really* early compared to what is considered normal retirement age. And yes, I use the term "retirement" pretty loosely, too, as I will likely do something that pays me money even after I retire...
    Sounds like we have a lot in common. I bet my car is shittier than yours though.

  6. #7731
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    In a van... down by the river
    Posts
    13,654
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mike View Post
    <snip>
    Sounds like we have a lot in common. I bet my car is shittier than yours though.
    I think I could give you a run for your money.

    1997 Subaru Outback - 205K miles
    2001 Honda Odyssey - 245K miles
    2014 F150 - 102K miles (this is the "nice new" car)


  7. #7732
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Nashville TN
    Posts
    1,054
    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    I think I could give you a run for your money.

    1997 Subaru Outback - 205K miles
    2001 Honda Odyssey - 245K miles
    2014 F150 - 102K miles (this is the "nice new" car)

    not easy to beat, but I'll show a 2004 Saturn Vue with 85k miles. 5 speed stick 4 cylinder engine (back when they sucked) for bonus points.

  8. #7733
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    In a van... down by the river
    Posts
    13,654
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mike View Post
    not easy to beat, but I'll show a 2004 Saturn Vue with 85k miles. 5 speed stick 4 cylinder engine (back when they sucked) for bonus points.
    Fuck, man. You win. By a MILE. I kind of feel bad for you...
    Last edited by skaredshtles; 10-16-2019 at 09:32 AM.

  9. #7734
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Joisey
    Posts
    2,495
    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    We aren't talking wealthy, we are talking about middle class folks, who literally no matter where you live, do not make 250k or more.

    250k literally puts you in the top 5% of even Boulder households. Top 5%! That number holds in Boston and New York cities by themselves also as well.

    Bunch of lawyers and dentists talking about bootstraps right here.
    Earning a certain amount of money puts you in a certain percentage of wage earners. It says nothing about the wealth you possess.

    Income != Wealth

    Taxing income does not fix the wealth disparity we have.
    Because rich has nothing to do with money.

  10. #7735
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Golden, Colorado
    Posts
    5,868

    Real Estate Crash thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    If you are in the top quarter of earners, you are, by literal definition and basic math, not in the middle class.
    This is your problem. See the plethora of articles with a subject of ‘the middle class is shrinking’. If it’s defined by an income percentage, it literally cannot shrink.

    I would say most people define the middle class as living a particular lifestyle you would commonly see in the 50-80s. An average sized home of 3-4 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms in a location with a reasonable commute (15-30min) and decent schools, maybe a nice vacation once or twice a year, two decent used vehicles (not beaters), a restaurant once or twice a month, and a bit left over for saving for retirement and college.

    The goalposts of the middle class have shifted somewhat since the 50s-80s, where two working parents and childcare are common and commutes are closer to 20-45min. But other than that, I’d say its the same.

    Your fixation on income and home cost is a major problem for the above understanding of middle class. In a few major cities, $250k combined wouldn’t get you much more than the above (so upper middle class at best). Home prices would be anywhere from $700k to 1.25mil. For a family that bought their house in 2004, an income might be $150k to afford the above lifestyle... in the same location! In a random midwest town, the equivalent lifestyle might be $80k combined and a $250k house. See how income and home prices don’t mean shit when you define middle class by a lifestyle?

    So yeah, your definition of middle class is different than many others’ definition and is problematic.

    And yes, moving to that midwest town means you have to trade your $250k income for the $80k income.
    Last edited by Lindahl; 10-16-2019 at 12:48 AM.

  11. #7736
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Not in the PRB
    Posts
    32,785
    Well said, thanks for the good explanation that eluded me.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  12. #7737
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    cow hampshire
    Posts
    8,300
    But what defines "middle class"? It is a moving target based on where you live. So with all the democrats speaking about helping and/or not raising taxes for the middle class, who exactly are they talking about? A quick google says 64k. That won't get you shit around my neck of the woods. Really, like not even an outhouse.

  13. #7738
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    8,715
    There is some type of weird locational entitlement at play here. Living in Golden and Boulder are choices. As already said, you don't get to claim that you are not wealthy because you voluntarily purchased an expensive house. That makes no sense. Doesn't someone else get to claim in same if they used there income for an expensive car or multiple vacations?

    I have no idea where the lines should be defining low, middle, upper and what ever other classes you want to define are. I do know that statistics can be manipulated and cost of living varies regionally. That said, the hypothetical "We have $250K annual household income but we are not wealthy" family can to there twisted sense of struggle and stick it in there ass.

    While your personal finances are you own problem, you can't run away from the data.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2005_income_distribution.gif 
Views:	66 
Size:	44.2 KB 
ID:	298057

  14. #7739
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    8,715
    Somewhere around 65% of households own there home. You want a "weekend ski condo" and want to be middle class. Hilarious. Ask yourself a few questions.

    Do I have granite counters?
    How much did you spend last year on vacations?
    How much did you spend last year on eating out?
    Do you have any item of clothing that you paid $500 for?

    Now based on your own definitions, are you middle class?

  15. #7740
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Alpental
    Posts
    6,565
    Skis are an extension of my feet.
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  16. #7741
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    7,919
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    This is your problem. See the plethora of articles with a subject of ‘the middle class is shrinking’. If it’s defined by an income percentage, it literally cannot shrink.

    I would say most people define the middle class as living a particular lifestyle you would commonly see in the 50-80s. An average sized home of 3-4 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms in a location with a reasonable commute (15-30min) and decent schools, maybe a nice vacation once or twice a year, two decent used vehicles (not beaters), a restaurant once or twice a month, and a bit left over for saving for retirement and college.

    The goalposts of the middle class have shifted somewhat since the 50s-80s, where two working parents and childcare are common and commutes are closer to 20-45min. But other than that, I’d say its the same.

    Your fixation on income and home cost is a major problem for the above understanding of middle class. In a few major cities, $250k combined wouldn’t get you much more than the above (so upper middle class at best). Home prices would be anywhere from $700k to 1.25mil. For a family that bought their house in 2004, an income might be $150k to afford the above lifestyle... in the same location! In a random midwest town, the equivalent lifestyle might be $80k combined and a $250k house. See how income and home prices don’t mean shit when you define middle class by a lifestyle?

    So yeah, your definition of middle class is different than many others’ definition and is problematic.

    And yes, moving to that midwest town means you have to trade your $250k income for the $80k income.
    OK, lets break this down based entirely on lifestyle, and ignore income.

    But first, you are arguing that paying 750-1.25 million is just a family trying to live the middle class lifestyle, without acknowledging that at the end of the day, when they go and sell that home, they are millionaires and have, literally, 5x the average wealth of the typical American at retirement. I would argue that is not middle class. That is an investment made that has value, both monetarily and in their lifestyle as well....

    You also seem to think you can get the exact same lifestyle in either town, which I would argue is not true. A place with home values at 750k to 1.25 million is not providing the same lifestyle as a place with 250k home prices. You are paying extra for a luxury good, whether that be access to mountains like Boulder, culture like NYC, or say the beach in Santa Barbara. That has a value, and makes up a large part of one's class if you want to argue lifestyle. Let alone the typically better schools, or better infrastructure, or any of the myriad of other reasons why Boulder costs more than say Longmont.

    It feels like you are arguing in the sense that every location is operating in a vacuum, where there would be a upper, middle and lower class within each locations boundaries. When that has never been true. The middle class typically doesn't live on the beach or right downtown in the penthouses, they live up in Longmont (for the Boulder example) or they live in the Bronx (NYC example). Sure there are exceptions (like say the ski bum who bought in Jackson in 1965), but those are just that, exceptions. Living in Boulder is part of what makes up someones class, if it is about living a lifestyle.

    Someone said it earlier, but choosing to live in that given location is primarily due to class (in that similar people group together). Buying a single family home in Boulder is something only an upper class person could entertain, (and this is not meant as an insult in any way towards Danno, I am sure Danno works hard and makes good decisions, which allowed him to do this). That 3 bed 2 bath in Boulder might be fucking expensive, but your class allows you in that door, which has value both in terms of investment, and the the Boulder lifestyle.

    Go back and read that hypothetical 350k family's budget. That "middle class lifestyle" results in them having 1.8 million in real estate, can put 50k a year into retirement plans / savings, paying for private schools, etc. That is not middle class when they are going to be worth the better part of 10 million dollars when the kids move out (to a private college, with no student loans). It is just ridiculous to argue otherwise. Sure they might just be living in a 3 bed /2 bath, but they are still fucking millionaires on the Upper West Side.

    People can make smart decisions and jump up classes and maybe have less income (like say buying in Boulder decades ago). That is a reward, not a detriment. He gets to live an upper class lifestyle on an income that is lower. 250k however, allows you basically zero stress and a "lifestyle" that results in you being a millionaire pretty much guaranteed, literally anywhere in America, right now. That has never been middle class, which is why I am arguing it is totally insane to say otherwise. Saying you can afford just a little 3 bed / 2 bath, without acknowledging it is in Jackson, does not make you middle class.
    Live Free or Die

  17. #7742
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Not in the PRB
    Posts
    32,785
    Foggy, that's a weird way to look at it, IMO. Sure, Boulder or Golden or the Fraser valley are choices. But the way you're looking at it says that there simply can't be a middle class in expensive areas. Because if you say a middle class family -- with no accounting for location and cost of living -- is, say, $63k annually (by your graphic), that household simply won't be living in Boulder unless they are in low income affordable housing. And maybe that's your position, that Boulder cannot by definition have a middle class, that NYC or SF or wherever expensive can't by definition have a middle class. But that doesn't seem correct to me.

    To me, middle class is the way that Lindahl defined it. And in some areas, to have that existence takes more income than you accept as middle class.

    So yes, I could struggle less if I lived somewhere other than Boulder, and because I already commute to Denver I certainly don't need to stay here for a job. Instead, I stay here because I bought a home here 14 years ago, because my friends are here, because my daughter goes to school here. Sure, choices I make. Just like everyone makes choices. You choose to live where you do for the same reasons, even if it is more expensive and closer to the population center than you'd like. You could be rich if you made your income and instead lived somewhere much cheaper. But a) you probably couldn't make the same money somewhere else, and b) you don't want to move to those places or haven't moved to those places. That doesn't change your economic status in the place you live. We could all be wealthy living in Iowa. That doesn't mean we're still wealthy when we live here.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  18. #7743
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Not in the PRB
    Posts
    32,785
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    Somewhere around 65% of households own there home. You want a "weekend ski condo" and want to be middle class. Hilarious. Ask yourself a few questions.

    Do I have granite counters?
    How much did you spend last year on vacations?
    How much did you spend last year on eating out?
    Do you have any item of clothing that you paid $500 for?

    Now based on your own definitions, are you middle class?
    Do I have granite counters? No, but close enough.
    How much did you spend last year on vacations? Very little, maybe a few hundred?
    How much did you spend last year on eating out? Very little, under $1000.
    Do you have any item of clothing that you paid $500 for? Fuck no.

    What did I win? Not a weekend ski condo, unfortunately.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  19. #7744
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Not in the PRB
    Posts
    32,785
    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    OK, lets break this down based entirely on lifestyle, and ignore income.

    But first, you are arguing that paying 750-1.25 million is just a family trying to live the middle class lifestyle, without acknowledging that at the end of the day, when they go and sell that home, they are millionaires and have, literally, 5x the average wealth of the typical American at retirement. I would argue that is not middle class. That is an investment made that has value, both monetarily and in their lifestyle as well....
    .
    I know you're not this stupid. Just because the home costs $1M doesn't mean that "buying" the home means you have $1M in equity. It means you have a hudge mortgage payment.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  20. #7745
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Not in the PRB
    Posts
    32,785
    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    Someone said it earlier, but choosing to live in that given location is primarily due to class. Buying a single family home in Boulder is something only an upper class person could entertain, (and this is not meant as an insult in any way towards Danno, I am sure Danno works hard and makes good decisions, which allowed him to do this).
    My annual income was $53k when I bought my home. I never knew I was upper class. I got screwed.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  21. #7746
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    LV-426
    Posts
    21,126
    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    Do you have any item of clothing that you paid $500 for? Fuck no.
    I bet there's a lot of people here who paid more than $500 for ski boots (including Intuitions, custom footbed, fitting...)
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  22. #7747
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    In a van... down by the river
    Posts
    13,654
    Quote Originally Posted by El Chupacabra View Post
    I bet there's a lot of people here who paid more than $500 for ski boots (including Intuitions, custom footbed, fitting...)
    Hey, man... those are necessities. You make it sound like skiing is a luxury!

  23. #7748
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Not in the PRB
    Posts
    32,785
    Quote Originally Posted by El Chupacabra View Post
    I bet there's a lot of people here who paid more than $500 for ski boots (including Intuitions, custom footbed, fitting...)
    Hmmm, I may have, I don't recall, it was probably close to $500. But I also bought that pair of ski boots 10 years ago. Wish I could afford to buy another pair.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  24. #7749
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    the ham
    Posts
    13,370
    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    ...that boat anchor mortgage brings you down a peg or two.
    That's the key to your argument. $250 minimal or no debt is rich. $250 leveraged-as-fuck is high income with middle class lifestyle.

  25. #7750
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    关你屁事
    Posts
    9,532
    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    That's the key to your argument. $250 minimal or no debt is rich. $250 leveraged-as-fuck is high income with middle class lifestyle.
    The key to his "argument" is the belief that debt is bad, only stupid people take on debt, and only the wealthy deserve the benefits of lifestyle. Including benefits like substantial housing appreciation, low crime, and good schools. And apparently outdoor recreation. It's the US class warfare and acceptance of lack of social mobility in a nicebow.

    A double-MD household just out of school might easily have $250k in income and a pile of debt. They also have a plan out of the debt because they've a useful skill and a reasonable career path.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •