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  1. #7651
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    And living in the Acela corridor is not living in a "bubble". Aspen is a bubble.

  2. #7652
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    NH has a lot of high incomes, this high fed tax. I do fine and have zero issue paying more in tax, but I'd like a lot of the bullshit depressing tax rates for the ultra wealthy like cap gains closed before you come and ask me for more.

  3. #7653
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    Also, new England will be fine. Coastal communities will have some work related to sea level rise, but many have the money to address. Most other problems are related to either aging infrastructure, where hands will eventually be forced,or density/NIMBY stuff, which also works itself out to an extent as communities either commit to growth or start dying.
    There's no major water or seismic issues like most of the west. The one thing that does somewhat worry me is PTFE contamination, but we'll see if that's pervasive or not.
    Rural communities still need a lot of help as they've been left behind, but at least in my state (NH) that would require significant infrastructure and startup funding we don't have.

  4. #7654
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    I believe 250k designates you a 1%er:

    http://worldpopulationreview.com/sta...come-by-state/

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  5. #7655
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    $100k is rich in rural american, but as the WSJ notes this morning:
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/so-you-...d=hp_lead_pos5
    "So you make $100,000 it still might not be enough to buy a home".
    first example they use is a woman who moved to Denver from St. Louis.

  6. #7656
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    You guys are all fucking high and only on a ski forum would people legitimately argue 250k is middle class.

    Even in the Massachusetts if you make over 100k you are in the top 12% of wage earners. 125k puts you top 8% of income. To get to 250k you need a dual income household where both of you are in the top 8%. Anyone take statistics lately? Single income household and you are top 2% to reach that level.

    Get out of your bubble Benny ET AL. Anyone arguing otherwise does not have the perspective to speak on this topic, outside of being rich. Maybe wealthy even, but definitely rich.

    Benny owns a condo, which even the plebs can do in Westchester.

    That all being said, whoever mentioned these limousine liberals would never vote for a Bernie or Warren is spot on.
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  7. #7657
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    You guys are all fucking high and only on a ski forum would people legitimately argue 250k is middle class.

    Even in the Massachusetts if you make over 100k you are in the top 12% of wage earners. 125k puts you top 8% of income. To get to 250k you need a dual income household where both of you are in the top 8%. Anyone take statistics lately? Single income household and you are top 2% to reach that level.

    Get out of your bubble Benny ET AL. Anyone arguing otherwise does not have the perspective to speak on this topic, outside of being rich. Maybe wealthy even, but definitely rich.

    Benny owns a condo, which even the plebs can do in Westchester.

    That all being said, whoever mentioned these limousine liberals would never vote for a Bernie or Warren is spot on.
    You obviously have never shopped for a condo in Westchester. With a garage. Oh, to have a garage.......

  8. #7658
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    $100k is rich in rural american, but as the WSJ notes this morning:
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/so-you-...d=hp_lead_pos5
    "So you make $100,000 it still might not be enough to buy a home".
    first example they use is a woman who moved to Denver from St. Louis.

    You can thank the bank bailout for this ridiculousness. The housing market, to this day, is till floated by easy money, and has never found it's natural bottom. It may, eventually, but that's going to take twenty years of the Boomers dying off and the kids putting the thing on the real market and taking what they can. A slow trickle.

  9. #7659
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    $100k is rich in rural american, but as the WSJ notes this morning:
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/so-you-...d=hp_lead_pos5
    "So you make $100,000 it still might not be enough to buy a home".
    first example they use is a woman who moved to Denver from St. Louis.
    Yeah. lol - don't move from STL to Denver. Recipe for disappointment...

  10. #7660
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Ain't a shitload of money if it's already spent on essentials.
    You high bro?

  11. #7661
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    Nope.

    Sigh.

    Ballin' as the upper middle class is really fucking expensive, in case you haven't heard. Shit, just start with private school tuition starting at pre school, and work from there. Not that I'm endorsing it all, but, that's the way it is. And those kids are going to lay your kids off or send them off to a war to die. Now, who do you want your kids to be? Pitcher or catcher?

    And that's not a baseball reference.

  12. #7662
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    You guys are all fucking high and only on a ski forum would people legitimately argue 250k is middle class.

    Even in the Massachusetts if you make over 100k you are in the top 12% of wage earners. 125k puts you top 8% of income. To get to 250k you need a dual income household where both of you are in the top 8%. Anyone take statistics lately? Single income household and you are top 2% to reach that level.

    Get out of your bubble Benny ET AL. Anyone arguing otherwise does not have the perspective to speak on this topic, outside of being rich. Maybe wealthy even, but definitely rich.

    Benny owns a condo, which even the plebs can do in Westchester.

    That all being said, whoever mentioned these limousine liberals would never vote for a Bernie or Warren is spot on.
    So you have to be rich to afford a home without a substantial hit to discretionary spending. That's working out great for china.

    as for the last line < sigh > get out of your little rightwing anti-tax bubbles.

  13. #7663
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    Where the fuck did I say that? You don't need 250k household income to afford a 380k home, which is the current average home price in Mass.
    Live Free or Die

  14. #7664
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Nope.

    Sigh.

    Ballin' as the upper middle class is really fucking expensive, in case you haven't heard. Shit, just start with private school tuition starting at pre school, and work from there. Not that I'm endorsing it all, but, that's the way it is. And those kids are going to lay your kids off or send them off to a war to die. Now, who do you want your kids to be? Pitcher or catcher?

    And that's not a baseball reference.
    If you're in an area paying $29k/year in taxes on a $800k home, I'm guessing that the local public schools are extremely well funded and really good? Hence no need to go private?

  15. #7665
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    Simple truth. Gotta keep up with the Jonses.
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  16. #7666
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    FWIW, I live in the CO front range and $250K is most def middle class here. You can afford a decent house and have some savings.

    Owning a house in a halfway decent area and maybe having a weekend ski condo isn't "upper class". Upper class is the ownership class- the people who own highly profitable private companies, people who pull in $250K+ based solely on the income from their assets, etc. If you are living a high class lifestyle and most of your income comes from the income and dividends that your assets provide, you're upper class in my book. If you work for a living and rely on wages as your primary means of income you are generally upper middle class at best, the exception being very highly paid professionals like CEOs bringing in 7-8 figures per year, etc.

    Call me out of touch, but if you are in a major metro area $250k from wages just isn't upper class.

  17. #7667
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    In my town, the bottom of the SFR market is almost $600k. That's a 3BR/1BA, 900 sqft home in a student neighborhood with no upgrades. A more decent suburban home, say 4br/2ba 2000 sqft, in a better neighborhood with decent (but not baller) upgrades can easily hit $800k-1M. $250k per year could afford that, sure, but not with oodles of money left over to live a baller life.

    Now one could argue that the very notion of owning a SFR in my town makes you "rich", but on a day to day basis, $250k per year would make you feel middle class, not wealthy.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
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  18. #7668
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    Get outta here with 250k is middle class in Colorado. That is just laughably unbelievable.

    Median household income is 69k.

    For the entire state, 250k puts you well into the 1%.

    You guys realize 250k is top 5% for households even in Boulder, where yes, owning a single family home makes you rich.
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  19. #7669
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    250K in wages = middle class. 250K in cap gains = upper class. The local paper just ran the local wages/cost of living story a couple weeks ago. It takes 322,000/yr to crack the top 20%, 609K/yr to break the top 5% of incomes here. I didn't move to an expensive city; the expensive city moved to me.
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  20. #7670
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    So you have to be rich to afford a home without a substantial hit to discretionary spending. That's working out great for china.

    as for the last line < sigh > get out of your little rightwing anti-tax bubbles.
    you do realize it's not right wing to be in an anti-tax bubble.
    I am quite literally pointing out that Benny et al are complaining about how higher taxes are hurting their real estate value.
    The entire study cited talked about how the 10k cap on state and local taxes translated into potentially lower home values because people buy a payment for the most part.
    So really what your seeing is people primarily left of center complaining about paying higher taxes. Just because we are arguing whether 250k is rich or not at the end of the day, people in Blue states are angry that they are paying higher Federal Taxes.
    As for Bernie and Warren, I was merely pointing out that they would also like to raise your taxes. They are upfront about, they will really target more stuff also like capital gains etc. but if you also think the well heeled in greenwich won't simply pick up and move offshore to Puerto Rico or Miami, like David Tepper when NJ passed a 'millionaires tax" you are sadly mistaken.
    I make good money and pay lots of taxes, I was only pointing out the irony that most not all, talk a good game until the money comes out of their pockets.

  21. #7671
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    Get outta here with 250k is middle class in Colorado. That is just laughably unbelievable.

    Median household income is 69k.

    250k puts you in the top 5% just in Cherry Hills, let alone for the entire state, where 250k puts you well into the 1%.
    why are you using numbers for the whole state and not the metro area? what the fuck does it matter to someone in Denver that median income in SW co is shit? Doe it matter to someone in the Boston metro that Western Ma is poor?

  22. #7672
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncskier View Post
    you do realize it's not right wing to be in an anti-tax bubble.
    I am quite literally pointing out that Benny et al are complaining about how higher taxes are hurting their real estate value.
    The entire study cited talked about how the 10k cap on state and local taxes translated into potentially lower home values because people buy a payment for the most part.
    So really what your seeing is people primarily left of center complaining about paying higher taxes. Just because we are arguing whether 250k is rich or not at the end of the day, people in Blue states are angry that they are paying higher Federal Taxes.
    As for Bernie and Warren, I was merely pointing out that they would also like to raise your taxes. They are upfront about, they will really target more stuff also like capital gains etc. but if you also think the well heeled in greenwich won't simply pick up and move offshore to Puerto Rico or Miami, like David Tepper when NJ passed a 'millionaires tax" you are sadly mistaken.
    I make good money and pay lots of taxes, I was only pointing out the irony that most not all, talk a good game until the money comes out of their pockets.
    No. Actually what I'm seeing is the self-selection of the US population. So, in my case in my "high tax" blue state neighborhood, the people who really get fucking pissed off about taxes move to Texas or Florida. some of them make money, some don't - but most of them voted red. Lots of other people stay. Some of them make good money, some don't - but many of them vote blue.

    you've got your worldview, you want to find irony in it, you want to think that "limousine liberals" will never vote for Warren or Bernie. Have at that circle jerk. I'm not saying nobody moves and taxes don't matter - they do. Just not nearly as much as the people constantly fixated on taxes claim.

  23. #7673
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    Ok, let's stop with the $XXX makes you wealthy regardless of where you are, or the $XXX makes you only middle class in a particular location.

    Define wealthy first, without reference to a simple number. What makes someone wealthy? Is it the ability to own a home of X dollars? Is it the ability to buy an Audi without a car loan? Is it the ability to save $X amount per year? Is it the ability to be able to eat at high end restaurants every week?

    Because if we don't have some agreed upon parameters, some people will just look at a simple dollar amount and say "you're wealthy" and others will look at the buying power of that salary in a certain location and say "living here, you're not wealthy". And neither will be wrong. Or right.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
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  24. #7674
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    I'm wealthy, and the household makes just a bit over $200K in the Denver area.

    And no, we aren't dentists.

    Despite being wealthy, we live a very middle-class existence. No car payments (in fact, no vehicles have less than 100K miles on them), no 2nd house/condo in the mountains, no big fancy McMansion.

    So perhaps it's possible to be wealthy AND middle-class at the same time?

    My main "goal" (I use that term very loosely) is to retire *really* early compared to what is considered normal retirement age. And yes, I use the term "retirement" pretty loosely, too, as I will likely do something that pays me money even after I retire...

  25. #7675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    Ok, let's stop with the $XXX makes you wealthy regardless of where you are, or the $XXX makes you only middle class in a particular location.

    Define wealthy first, without reference to a simple number.
    OK. To me being wealthy is the ability to live a high end lifestyle (flying first class or private to international vacations, ability to own multiple high end homes in desirable locations, eating at high end restaurants without thinking about the cost, buying or leasing luxury cars without it making a dent in your income stream or net worth) without having to work for it because your assets are paying for said lifestyle with interest, dividends, rent, etc.

    Where I live that definition of wealth kicks in somewhere around $5MM-$10MM in total assets.

    If you are living that lifestyle based on your income alone you are probably either making enormous amounts of money (again, 7-8 figures per year) or you are an idiot who should be saving your money to accumulate assets and not spending it like it is going to last forever.

    $250k per year doesn't even come close to affording said lifestyle as I defined it.

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