Real Estate Crash thread

[fastfred]

^^ people went ballistic when they raised the average short term rental lic fee from a few hundred bucks a year to $1,600.00

the letters to the editor were funny as shit when it happened, it was all me me me me and what I do for the local economy and now I'm going to have raise my rental fees (lets say 10.00) and those people aren't going to be spending money in stores and restaurants because of these fees, I can't make that shit up, some of these short term homeowners actually patted themselves on the back and said they were "job creators"

[Shredhead]

I just don’t see how you can tax them more than Hotels.
Our city council is pushing new hotel construction, because they want “warm beds” and the occupants spend more money in restaurants.
But we already have a huge inventory of existing housing, much of which is underutilized. Taxing these units excessively, discourages the owner from renting, increasing the housing problem.

[CarlMega]

Huh? Having STR causes housing issues, not alleviate them. Major difference between LTR and STR. And an even bigger difference between owner occupied and an investment rental.

[Shredhead]

So instead of utilizing the existing stock of housing. Just build more hotels, to accommodate the tourists, that actually pay the bills, too make the Bull-wheels turn?

TaxingSTR’s excessively , just increases vacancy.
Charging a licensing fee, discourages people who only rent occasionally.

[CarlMega]

If your problem is over stock of existing housing, you don't have the housing issue most of us are talking about. Yours is high inventory, low demand.

Most areas are: low inventory, extremely high demand. Thus requisite people you need for the community are priced out. If that inventory is bought by people for STR investment property, that is dwindling that supply even more.

I haven't seen "too much vacancy, too much inventory" anywhere near where I live so it almost seems like a fairy tale. I can't imagine STR are very sought after in areas where people don't want to live?

[skiballs]

Here is a legit problem I have and I want to consult the wellto do all caring worldly members of tgr

I was in Aurora this morning and realized I hatemy life but love the smell of halal food and Mexican laundry soap the smell of white people and money sucks

So can doone of two things what would you do

A) I can deed restrict my single family home and get around 100k check to do so unfortunately 100k is chump change sorry not sorry the ded restriction would limit the home tobe sold rented or occupied by a local who is employed in scummit when I go to sell it the earning potential could be limited by the deed restriction this restriction I'd put on it has no Cap'n on appreciation

B) or fuck every one cause 20 years ago I was smart enough to buy a house and I got here before all you sorry fucks and I got lucky so I want my million bucks

Breck to Aurora and back, no wonder you’re so salty, vibes.
How much are the trailers, in that trailer park, just north of the ski shop on the corner?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ötzi]

If your problem is over stock of existing housing, you don't have the housing issue most of us are talking about. Yours is high inventory, low demand.

I believe he lives in Aspen and that the empty homes he's talking about belong to wealthy folks who aren't there much but who don't rent. I'm not sure what a tax on STRs does to those folks but not much. Maybe discourage them from renting out the houses they already don't rent out? Is that the drift of it?

[Toadman]

Five times. Twice for a month.

Little Italy doesn't count.

[dunfree]

So instead of utilizing the existing stock of housing. Just build more hotels, to accommodate the tourists, that actually pay the bills, too make the Bull-wheels turn?

TaxingSTR’s excessively , just increases vacancy.
Charging a licensing fee, discourages people who only rent occasionally.

I just don’t see how you can tax them more than Hotels.
Our city council is pushing new hotel construction, because they want “warm beds” and the occupants spend more money in restaurants.
But we already have a huge inventory of existing housing, much of which is underutilized. Taxing these units excessively, discourages the owner from renting, increasing the housing problem.

“Taxing something makes people more stupid” is straight up pilot union brain hypoxia stupid.

name redacted is a dumb STR pimp, not sure why people are treating that import nimby anyway else. He’s a transparent clown

[Conundrum]

I just don’t see how you can tax them more than Hotels.

I just don't see how little hotels can operate in areas zoned residential. Many people talk about private property rights regarding STRs. AirBB didn't exist when I bought my single family home in a residentially zoned area. Now there are three (out of state owners) out of seven houses on my little street that are STRs. I don't really like it. Not the end of the world but at the same time, other commercial entities that wouldn't cause more issues are not allowed. I'm curious when my residentially zoned property rights will be under consideration to protect actual zoning law enforcement in an R7 historic district. I can't paint my house certain colors because of historic contribution considerations but an out-of-state investor can operate commercial business in an area that never had a hotel nor historically consisted of anything but single family dwellings. I guess it's time to fire up the typewriter and get some letters into the city council...or at least fire something up. See you in the spirit world Fred.

[wolfelot]

I managed to get a well drilled on my lot last week at 11,000 ft in Park County CO right at 6 months after having my septic design and permit in hand. I made initial contact with my driller last April and stayed in periodic contact with him. I figured he would not be able to get to us until spring or even later, but he called last week and said he would be there the next day. From what I gather six months is a very good turnaround in todays climate. I was about 1/12 on drillers who would even consider drilling in our area. The few who got back to me said we were 30-min to 2 hours away and they had all the work they could handle within 20 minutes of where they are based so they were not interested.

Since 2019 only a few more than 1/3 of well permits issued by the state in our area have been logged with the state as constructed.

We have a solid producing well that will produce 10-15 gallons per min at 100 ft deep.

[Toadman]

STR owners want their cake and to eat yours too and not pay for the cake. All these people coming into Touron Town USA are putting a strain on the system. The way cities deal with these Tourons is by putting a tax on things like hotels, motels, rental cars and in some cases sporting events. So why should STR owners not put some skin in the game? The way I see it, is these Tourons come into Touron Town USA and use the public services. They certainly drive on the roads and create traffic, pollution and other touron trash that needs to be dealt with. Just because they spend a few hundred bucks on food and beverage and another few hundred bucks for recreational activities, doesn't mean that can't be taxed a few bucks to help maintain those services while staying in an STR instead of a hotel/motel.

Taxes solve all sorts of problems. The people who avoid paying taxes create all sorts of problems for those of us who end up picking up the tab.

[Benny Profane]

I just don't see how little hotels can operate in areas zoned residential. Many people talk about private property rights regarding STRs. AirBB didn't exist when I bought my single family home in a residentially zoned area. Now there are three (out of state owners) out of seven houses on my little street that are STRs. I don't really like it. Not the end of the world but at the same time, other commercial entities that wouldn't cause more issues are not allowed. I'm curious when my residentially zoned property rights will be under consideration to protect actual zoning law enforcement in an R7 historic district. I can't paint my house certain colors because of historic contribution considerations but an out-of-state investor can operate commercial business in an area that never had a hotel nor historically consisted of anything but single family dwellings. I guess it's time to fire up the typewriter and get some letters into the city council...or at least fire something up. See you in the spirit world Fred.

Lawyer up!

[Conundrum]

Lawyer up!

I was going to go with a strongly worded letter to the editor. Or apathy.

[yeahman]

I was going to go with a strongly worded letter to the editor. Or apathy.

I don't blame you for being pissed off. The whole STR situation should never have been allowed to develop into what it is, but the internet moves faster than government. It's fucking up the country though, no doubt about it.

[Shredhead]

I don’t have a problem with taxing STR’s.
I just think the tax, should be the same as Hotels.
I also think a 100 room Hotel should pay a much larger licensing fee, than a guy that rents out a studio occasionally.

[Name Redacted]

I don’t have a problem with taxing STR’s.
I just think the tax, should be the same as Hotels.
I also think a 100 room Hotel should pay a much larger licensing fee, than a guy that rents out a studio occasionally.

In many places they already are taxes like hotels with lodging tax, I have even said many times that STRs should be taxed more for lodging.

Once again, I wasn't advocating against the lodging tax, I was talking about property taxes which is what the article I linked was about. Taxing STR properties as commercial is a little more complex than a lodging tax. It can have a lot of unintended negative consequences.

[Foggy_Goggles]

What are we fighting about again? So yeah, the fact that the Federal Government has been ineffectual my entire life seems like an excuse for the haves to keep on keepin' on.

That linked article basically says, "wah...it might be difficult" as the negatives. Are you guys against zoning? Ever had a municipality approach a gravel pit in your back yard? The follow the rules is difficult and might cost me money is complaint of every half ass business everywhere. Put on your big boy pants and realize that regulatory volatility has been part of the game forever.

Double check me on this but in Colorado isn't the Lodging Tax statutorily required to go back into that industry for marketing and such, can't go to the general fund?

Anecdotally, these are the type of events that are actually happening. 2 young second year teachers get there rented condo (shared) sold out from under them for an STR. They couch surfed for a bit but then both throw in the towel and bounced.

Six figure jobs are not getting filled because there is a rental housing shortage at any price. Families do not want to move to town and take a flier an a million dollar place.

The cost of housing is having this circular effect where people like me have to bid jobs so high in order to cover our labor costs that the resulting product is for the wealthy only.

NIMNY Second Homos and Wealthy WFHrs fight against every higher density project AKA apartment buildings whilst the puffy coat do gooder crowd argues that families of four at 80% median income are entitled to quartz counters and a heated garage. You get deed resticted properties with snowmobiles and RVs outside.

Its fucked. Its fucked everywhere. If you are OK with that and you are just trying to get yours, at least just own it. Its not my style. I don't like to see people hurting. Dysfunction has massive side effects including mental health.

I really think some of the haters don't even know what community is. They don't know what a friendly neighbor is. They don't know how to wave and smile. They don't even know how to say thank you when you pull them out of the ditch. They are losing touch with being human so they have invented a new game called "Look at me with my toys and free time and World Class Mountain Life". Its all they know. But they ain't happy.

[Foggy_Goggles]

It can have a lot of unintended negative consequences.

Like what?

[Name Redacted]

Like what?

I'll let you go figure it out. I'm done hand holding and I'm not going to throw a wall of words out to argue about it. Do you really think that higher taxes will make anything more affordable? It'll just be passed on to the consumer, which like it or not, is you.

[Benny Profane]

Like what?

No snowmobile or Sprinter van in his driveway.

[Conundrum]

Like what?

I'll let you go figure it out. I'm done hand holding and I'm not going to throw a wall of words out to argue about it. Do you really think that higher taxes will make anything more affordable? It'll just be passed on to the consumer, which like it or not, is you.

Like do your own research bro.

[skifishbum]

sure seems bunny has his finger on the pulse of most everything
cept live females

[Foggy_Goggles]

I'll let you go figure it out. I'm done hand holding and I'm not going to throw a wall of words out to argue about it. Do you really think that higher taxes will make anything more affordable? It'll just be passed on to the consumer, which like it or not, is you.

Dude you are as close to an online friend as I have around here so I'm not trying to bust your balls. I sit in all kinds of meetings, am the Treasurer of my Water District and President of my HOA.

Not once has anyone been able to present an argument about treating STRs as a commercial entity other than, it is bad for my pocket book. Your shtick is no different. You trotted out an article touting the challenges that had no challenges.

I'm no public policy expert but I've been around the block enough times with mountain town politics to know the game. These big fish in a little pond put up just enough of a fight that they wear down the opposition.

I'm pretty stubborn but I'm pretty open to changing my mind. The fact that the government has historically been pretty shitty at financial management is a weak sauce argument against any change in tax policy.

[schuss]

Dude you are as close to an online friend as I have around here so I'm not trying to bust your balls. I sit in all kinds of meetings, am the Treasurer of my Water District and President of my HOA.

Not once has anyone been able to present an argument about treating STRs as a commercial entity other than, it is bad for my pocket book. Your shtick is no different. You trotted out an article touting the challenges that had no challenges.

I'm no public policy expert but I've been around the block enough times with mountain town politics to know the game. These big fish in a little pond put up just enough of a fight that they wear down the opposition.

I'm pretty stubborn but I'm pretty open to changing my mind. The fact that the government has historically been pretty shitty at financial management is a weak sauce argument against any change in tax policy.

I'd say STR's are fine to treat as commercial if they're used as STR's more than 50% of the year. You may also want to put occupied vs. STR days to force some level of adherence rather than letting it sit empty midweek, as people would try to game that pretty quick. Enforcement would be difficult, but likely not impossible.