Real Estate Crash thread

[concretejungle]

That does suck. We were helping a Laotian refugee family assimilate. Teaching them how to use a washing machine and such.

The Glazers did pretty well in the Upstate NY trailer park biz. Bit they traded money for their soul IMO.

Has/is there a situation that you don't have first hand knowledge of?

[BmillsSkier]

we can't go through this whole thing again, we just did it in some other thread. maybe it was even this one

Nah it was the fried chicken thread.

[Ted Striker]

Man, I have had like 10 people call me in the last six months because their tenants contaminated their rentals with meth.

Not much you can do except hope it accidentally burns down.

iceman knows a guy

[RootSkier]

I felt the same way the first time father took me to his tailor for a bespoke suit. All those fabric swatches, thread colors and linings boggled my mind. We finally settled on a Brioni.

Next time take Uncle Larry, though he is even more at home at John Lobb.

[Benny Profane]

Thanks for the memory jogger. Years ago a buddy had some foreigners renting a house from him. Once they moved out it was obvious they had been cooking meat in the fireplace as it was coated in animal grease. He had a fun time cleaning up after them.

Hey, I just had lunch in a nice little place in Spoleto, Italy that was cooking like that. It was really good.

[wooley12]

Has/is there a situation that you don't have first hand knowledge of?

I'm sure there are many things I haven't experienced. The trailer park was 5 miles from the house so.... I'll add what I've experienced when it fits.


I was talking to a contractor friend about starting a Landlord service business. We'd do regular bi-monthly basic home inspections of rentals with the idea of spotting leaks, loose sockets, people cooking in the fireplace etc. Landlord would save on major repairs and tenant would be happy things were fixed without having to ask. Might pay for absentee owners? Wouldn't interest slumlords.

Any experience to give? Opinions are welcome too.

[Skidog]

I'm sure there are many things I haven't experienced. The trailer park was 5 miles from the house so.... I'll add what I've experienced when it fits.


I was talking to a contractor friend about starting a Landlord service business. We'd do regular bi-monthly basic home inspections of rentals with the idea of spotting leaks, loose sockets, people cooking in the fireplace etc. Landlord would save on major repairs and tenant would be happy things were fixed without having to ask. Might pay for absentee owners? Wouldn't interest slumlords.

Any experience to give? Opinions are welcome too.

so property management?

[glademaster]

I'm sure there are many things I haven't experienced. The trailer park was 5 miles from the house so.... I'll add what I've experienced when it fits.


I was talking to a contractor friend about starting a Landlord service business. We'd do regular bi-monthly basic home inspections of rentals with the idea of spotting leaks, loose sockets, people cooking in the fireplace etc. Landlord would save on major repairs and tenant would be happy things were fixed without having to ask. Might pay for absentee owners? Wouldn't interest slumlords.

Any experience to give? Opinions are welcome too.

I personally would never rent from someone that wanted to enter the property (or have their agents enter it) that frequently. Way too invasive.

If you just wanted to keep tabs on exterior stuff like cleaning gutters, roof de-mossing, etc. then have at it, but coming inside bi-monthly? No thanks.

[AdironRider]

Yeah, for one, that business exists and it is called property management. They are a dime a dozen.

Let alone I would tell you to fuck off for trying to inspect every two weeks if I was renting. Most tenants in most states have the right to quiet enjoyment, which is going to limit inspections to maybe quarterly at best.

[wooley12]

How about the landlord offers a "quality of life" inspection every 3-4 months because so that 1- the renters to have the best experience and 2 - the landlords property is maintained. To check and repair the same way a owner / occupier would.

Do property mangers carry tools with them and fix on the spot?

[Benny Profane]

Have you rented within the past, oh, thirty years in your life? Would you like somebody just coming into your home frequently just to "inspect" shit?

[iceman]

Anywhere I've rented the landlord can get access when they want it but they have to give notice to the tenants. How much notice varies by jurisdiction.

[wooley12]

My idea would by to have the inspection&repair process more pallitable to the tenant by having it preformed by a 3rd party who is only concerned with maintaining the property. I see the inspection as a part of the quality process.

IME as a homeowner and then a renter is at play. But it's only MY experience. I sense that my level of concern for the place I rent is lower than when I owned and maintained my own home.

[wooley12]

Have you rented within the past, oh, thirty years in your life? Would you like somebody just coming into your home frequently just to "inspect" shit?

Would I want you and your attitude showing up? Nope. OTOH, because I'm a super engaging people person type of guy, the tenants would be asking me to sit down for lunch after my inspection and repair was done.

[AdironRider]

Even with notice you can't go into a place every two weeks just to inspect it and look around.

This conversation is kinda moot anyways as no landlord is going to blow his profit on paying Wooley to fuck around for a couple hours every two weeks.

[Benny Profane]

Would I want you and your attitude showing up? Nope. OTOH, because I'm a super engaging people person type of guy, the tenants would be asking me to sit down for lunch after my inspection and repair was done.

You have strange fantasies of being a landlord.

[wooley12]

Mine is a peach. Haven't seen or heard of him in 6 months. I take care of things that could degrade his investment but I'll admit I'd be doing more if I owned it.n My rental house is in paradise. I'd have bought it if I'd moved west a year earlier. Now it's out of my price range. My daughter has rented 5 times and 2 moves were to get away from the money hungry owners who put no value on preventive maintenance and once because the owner was collecting rent and not paying the bank and she came home to a bank eviction notice on the door. I hope someday someone will key one of the two Beemers in the driveway of his house on the golf course in Gig Harbor. I do have strange fantasies.

But I digress.

What I'm hearing is that the appreciation generally is greater than the probability of $$$ repairs from minor neglect. What made me think of the whole idea was talking with a fellow who had 3 rental houses and was in the middle of a $30,000 repair from a leaky tub drain.

[AdironRider]

I would argue the opposite, notably due to it being a relatively safe and easy opportunity for the layperson to utilize leverage.

Sure you could put 300k into an index fund and it would probably appreciate per year at a higher rate than the property you could buy for 300k. But that assumes you won't get basically any rent receipts.

But the average landlord is only putting down 30k and financing the rest, or is doing an owner occupy three unit, or something along those lines. The average land lord doesn't just have 300k sitting around gathering dust.

The math argues in favor of the rental. You need a guaranteed 8% return for the 30 grand in an index fund to be a better payout than the rental with 0 percent appreciation and a breakeven revenue. If that rental appreciates even at 1%, you need that index fund to put out almost 9%. If that rental throws off 100 a month after expenses the index fund needs to put out almost 10+. Good luck hitting those numbers even in the most basic and reliable of ETF's over a 30 year timeframe, and even then you are dependent on really nailing the timing that you buy and sell.

The math is better for buying a rental in almost every scenario, even buying straight cash. The work element is vastly overrated here, even cash invested outside of real estate requires some due diligence and research and time spent by the investor.

[Ted Striker]

Agree. It's one of the few ways someone with little-to-no education, and no financial knowledge, but a little money and decent credit can generate fairly low risk non-employment income.

[fastfred]

I do handyman bull shit for long and short term rentals. Plenty to say on the subject. Unless I'm asked or there is something really fucked I really dont care or narc on anyone

Was rebuilding a deck on a house couple years ago for a really good customer of mine we noticed weed plant stocks sticking out of the ground in the backyard where are the plants so we asked the kids if they were growing weed it took a few times before they admitted growing weed we asked where were the plants they said they cut them out cause they didn't want to get in trouble cause they thought we'd tell the landlord we laughed at them poor kids would never think of it they felt pretty dumb

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[Benny Profane]

I would argue the opposite, notably due to it being a relatively safe and easy opportunity for the layperson to utilize leverage.

Sure you could put 300k into an index fund and it would probably appreciate per year at a higher rate than the property you could buy for 300k. But that assumes you won't get basically any rent receipts.

But the average landlord is only putting down 30k and financing the rest, or is doing an owner occupy three unit, or something along those lines. The average land lord doesn't just have 300k sitting around gathering dust.

The math argues in favor of the rental. You need a guaranteed 8% return for the 30 grand in an index fund to be a better payout than the rental with 0 percent appreciation and a breakeven revenue. If that rental appreciates even at 1%, you need that index fund to put out almost 9%. If that rental throws off 100 a month after expenses the index fund needs to put out almost 10+. Good luck hitting those numbers even in the most basic and reliable of ETF's over a 30 year timeframe, and even then you are dependent on really nailing the timing that you buy and sell.

The math is better for buying a rental in almost every scenario, even buying straight cash. The work element is vastly overrated here, even cash invested outside of real estate requires some due diligence and research and time spent by the investor.

Index funds don't cook crank in the basement or call you up at 2am because of issues.

[AdironRider]

Index funds don't cook crank in the basement or call you up at 2am because of issues.

Yeah, because cooking meth in the basement is pretty much a guarantee with any renter. Also, ask anyone like you who thought a solid blue chipper like Kodak was a better investment than a rental 30 years ago how they ended up.

PS, the 2am wake up call is very rare. You own your condo, how many catastrophes have you dealt with in the middle of the night? I bet its once a year at worst, and probably more like once every 5-10. Just because someone is renting doesn't mean the pipes are going to generate more leaks. The reality is you have to paint the place more often and replace appliances a year or two earlier than owner occupied.

The biggest risk is non-payment, so unlike just parking cash elsewhere I do see the biggest downside to owning a rental is the needed cash reserves the landlord has to carry. Basically 3 months carrying costs. If you had the nut to buy the rental in the first place though that number shouldn't be hard to attain.

[wooley12]

Good point.

Good thing or Bad thing? For the hard working citizen I mean. Not Capitalists.

[AdironRider]

Do you think those assumptions don't carry over to other investments? I touched on it earlier but companies go bankrupt, lose market share, impacted cash flow, and are subject to market volatility also. In fact, I think those risks are much higher outside of real estate vs buying real estate.

No investment is perfect, but for the average Joe, real estate is still the sweet spot in terms of risk/reward for anyone with limited capital.

[Core Shot]

This conversation is kinda moot anyways as no landlord is going to blow his profit on paying Wooley to fuck around for a couple hours every two weeks.

I’m thinking you don’t have to pay Woolley
He said the tenants are going to ask him to stay for drinks and dinner