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  1. #22301
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Down In A Hole, Up in the Sky
    Posts
    33,458
    We found out that charging way sub market rate has led to amazing tenants, the first ones for 9 yeas, and these latest for five. They have taken care of our (pretty nice) house better than we would, in some cases. They are so grateful. They don't bother us with anything, but let us know immediately if something needs attention. We keep the house nice with the intention of moving back into it. So new roof, wood stove, stain, etc, we keep up with. It's a win-win, and we will make 5 times our investment or more when we sell. Greed isn't everything.
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  2. #22302
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Before
    Posts
    26,339
    ^We've done the same, but did not always get the best tenants.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  3. #22303
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Down In A Hole, Up in the Sky
    Posts
    33,458
    We have been very, very lucky. Also, when we started renting, it was 2009 or so, so a bit of a recession. Then we rented for $1100!
    We feel good about it, and don’t want our little Victor neighborhood (5 houses) to become a STR ghetto, so we are doing something about it besides just clutching pearls.
    Rent is going up to $2200 next year, though, property taxes and a new leach field will cost a bit.
    But now there are dozens of miles of fun summer/winter trails right from the door…
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  4. #22304
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    7,355
    Nice, does not whoring out your rental property garner enough TGR points to cancel out owning 2 V8 pick ups and accepting a PPP loan? Because I do that too.

    Back to the PPP, it felt dirty at the time and still does. Micro economically speaking, I had a $50K job cancelled as the homeowner thought everything was gonna go on sale as asked the GC to renegotiate the contract. Simultaneously, other businesses in town (property management companies, cleaners, handypeople etc.) were using their PPP money to come into my space, offer sign on bonuses, prospect my customers for work etc. when their bread and butter business (STR service, entering peoples occupied space etc.), were more of less shut down.

    I did turn around and employ a handful ski area and service industry folks for a bit but they all decided to take the unemployment. I don't claim to be a great economist but I do know that PPP money was used to purchase recreational vehicles, make down payments on property and take vacations. From my view, this contributed to a run up in the prices of these products. Call it what you want.

    And for you closet CPA throwing up the fraud flag, for many small business the owner is also an employee. Payment to the owner is frequently is the form of wages. As a mental short cut, we will say things like, I spent it on a snowmobile whist what we really mean is that it flowed to the bottom line one way or another. For those enraged, see if your employer too the PPP.

    What else...well the new second homeowner have his and hers matching GOTOS Forerunners. I haven't asked them is they are full time or not. I wonder where they get childcare for the two littles.

  5. #22305
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    15,978
    I see a Benny Profane thread and I get nostalgic. Anyone else?
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  6. #22306
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    slc
    Posts
    16,222
    On the STR topic:

    Short-term rentals made up nearly 43% — almost half — of Park City's housing stock in 2020.
    https://www.ksl.com/article/50432811...housing-market

    Data is 2 years old, probably >50% by now.

  7. #22307
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Ogden
    Posts
    7,926
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    On the STR topic:

    Short-term rentals made up nearly 43% — almost half — of Park City's housing stock in 2020.
    https://www.ksl.com/article/50432811...housing-market

    Data is 2 years old, probably >50% by now.
    What could possibly go wrong?

  8. #22308
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dystopia
    Posts
    17,683
    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    I see a Benny Profane thread and I get nostalgic. Anyone else?
    It’s not the same without him. RIP

  9. #22309
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hood River
    Posts
    592
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    On the STR topic:

    Short-term rentals made up nearly 43% — almost half — of Park City's housing stock in 2020.
    https://www.ksl.com/article/50432811...housing-market
    Data is 2 years old, probably >50% by now.
    Wow. Unreal PC never clamped down hard on that.
    My town did it too late (better late than never) but it's a move any desirable place should do.

  10. #22310
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Posts
    1,763
    Quote Originally Posted by Mani_UT View Post
    Wow. Unreal PC never clamped down hard on that.
    My town did it too late (better late than never) but it's a move any desirable place should do.
    it is crazy, but are those STR available listed year-round? I know a ton of families only rent their homes during Sundance, so their house is still lived in by locals. So technically 43% may be high -but I'm sure its still very high.

    It pushes out the locals sure but what local can afford all those massive houses all being rented downtown? Millionares have to buy somewhere else I guess. Minimum wage workers were not renting out those.

  11. #22311
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Posts
    5,803
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevo View Post
    YoY cost of ownership is up more than 80%. With things starting to cool off in California, I really wonder how many more cash infused buyers there are lined up to buy in Montana. Certainly the local economy cannot support $4k mortgage payments for anyone other than local doctors and remote workers.
    This is true in most hot markets imo. A correction back down to prices where the mortgages are sustainable for the local economy will happen at some point, no?

  12. #22312
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    none
    Posts
    7,918
    Probably not in mountain towns.

  13. #22313
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    关你屁事
    Posts
    8,163
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    This is true in most hot markets imo. A correction back down to prices where the mortgages are sustainable for the local economy will happen at some point, no?
    sustainable for the local economy is meaningless drivel

  14. #22314
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    At the beach
    Posts
    17,545
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    This is true in most hot markets imo. A correction back down to prices where the mortgages are sustainable for the local economy will happen at some point, no?
    Not sure in desirable areas. If people can work remotely it opens up a world of possibilities as to where they can live. I read on the Reddit Mammoth forum that prices have tripled in the last 3 years I guess prices were fair 3 years ago, but now? Anyways, I don't imagine prices are coming back down to 2019 levels.
    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    I think you'd have an easier time understanding people if you remembered that 80% of them are fucking morons.
    That is why I like dogs, more than most people.

  15. #22315
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    11,466
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    This is true in most hot markets imo. A correction back down to prices where the mortgages are sustainable for the local economy will happen at some point, no?
    In "Hot" markets like Boise, yes. In "Hot" tourism destinations, not so much. There will always be people from outside, who have money, and want a piece of that pie. Inventory is the only remedy in these towns. Right now the Summit county RE market inventory is up 60% from last year, so we are seeing prices maybe level out a bit. DOM is getting somewhat longer. Etc. But I doubt there's any kind of real correction back to locally affordability levels coming. Just a little churn by investment folks. Lots of flips and stuff like that. WFH also throws a big wrench into the local affordability thing. Till that phenomenon slows, (Hint: it ain't, no matter what Elon says), it is gonna be tough for the local baristas to own. But it always has been.

  16. #22316
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The Mayonnaisium
    Posts
    9,827
    Several hot market factoids about this property:
    - sold for 27% over list
    - 500k return for seller in less than 2 years
    - pending to close in less than a week so cash sale

    https://www.redfin.com/ME/Portland/1.../home/85739187

  17. #22317
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    At the beach
    Posts
    17,545
    Guy did not own it 2 years by a few months to get the Capital Gain break? What is going on here?
    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    I think you'd have an easier time understanding people if you remembered that 80% of them are fucking morons.
    That is why I like dogs, more than most people.

  18. #22318
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    11,466
    Quote Originally Posted by liv2ski View Post
    Guy did not own it 2 years by a few months to get the Capital Gain break? What is going on here?
    1031? Can't remember if it works with STCGs. Good for him.

  19. #22319
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hood River
    Posts
    592
    Quote Originally Posted by Name Redacted View Post
    1031? Can't remember if it works with STCGs. Good for him.
    Here is another thing that blows my mind. How are 1031 even a thing. Imagine having some FB stock with big CG and rolling it tax free into say some AMZN stock without paying taxes. The whole RE world is way overly generous tax wise and it's fucking the middle class trying to own a single home.

  20. #22320
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Nhampshire
    Posts
    7,167
    Cap gains tax differences and loopholes in general need to be eliminated.

  21. #22321
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    7,355
    1031s are only tax deferment. I believe the original intent was encourage residential rental properties. Obviously it isn't working out like that. The tax code, mortgage industry etc. is just one giant loop hole being exploited to the determent of many.

  22. #22322
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    1,271
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    1031s are only tax deferment. I believe the original intent was encourage residential rental properties. Obviously it isn't working out like that. The tax code, mortgage industry etc. is just one giant loop hole being exploited to the determent of many.
    Yes.. The lawmaking caused by the legalized bribery by lobbyists should be made illegal.. But it won't be because conservatives want to keep expanding legalized bribery.. And the liberals are not much better than the conservatives in that matter.
    what's so funny about peace, love, and understanding?

  23. #22323
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Posts
    5,803
    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    sustainable for the local economy is meaningless drivel
    Not for non-resort/vacation towns. There are other types of hot markets out there.

  24. #22324
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    关你屁事
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    8,163
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    Not for non-resort/vacation towns. There are other types of hot markets out there.
    every market has a balance of buyers entering, sellers leaving, and a “local” group of “locals” buying in, and current area home owners trading up. What matters is who these are with what money. Many markets are unaffordable to locals

  25. #22325
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    11,466
    Brilliant!


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