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  1. #16676
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    HA! Are you daft? You DO realize that residential water use in the West is but a mere drop in the bucket (pun intended) compared to agricultural use where for SOME insane reason, everybody seems to be ok with growing everything in the freaking desert. SEE: California almonds. The amount of farming going on in places where it shouldn't even really exist, let alone at that scale, is absurd.
    Back when I lived in CA it was reported that ag eats up 85% of the states water usage and residential was 15%. Not sure how accurate that is/was.

    I figured ag was grown in CA because you can get more crops year round than in the midwestern states with their seasonality?

  2. #16677
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirbumpsalot View Post
    Back when I lived in CA it was reported that ag eats up 85% of the states water usage and residential was 15%. Not sure how accurate that is/was.
    Vox Article posted above has it as 80/20 from 2006-10.

  3. #16678
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    HA! Are you daft? You DO realize that residential water use in the West is but a mere drop in the bucket (pun intended) compared to agricultural use where for SOME insane reason, everybody seems to be ok with growing everything in the freaking desert. SEE: California almonds. The amount of farming going on in places where it shouldn't even really exist, let alone at that scale, is absurd.
    The discussion at hand is about domestic consumption in the east versus the west. I'm quite confident that I know far more about water use in the west than you do. I've written extensively about agricultural vs. domestic water use previously (see the California's Dry thread).

  4. #16679
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    HA! Are you daft? You DO realize that residential water use in the West is but a mere drop in the bucket (pun intended) compared to agricultural use where for SOME insane reason, everybody seems to be ok with growing everything in the freaking desert. SEE: California almonds. The amount of farming going on in places where it shouldn't even really exist, let alone at that scale, is absurd.
    Las Vegas is absurd, too.

  5. #16680
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    In large part this is being driven by migration from eastern and midwestern states (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._net_migration). Even Utah's total fertility rate has dropped below 2 in recent years. Stop moving here, assholes!
    But, but, the weather is so nice. It doesn't ever rain!

  6. #16681
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirbumpsalot View Post
    Back when I lived in CA it was reported that ag eats up 85% of the states water usage and residential was 15%. Not sure how accurate that is/was.

    I figured ag was grown in CA because you can get more crops year round than in the midwestern states with their seasonality?
    With global ag don’t need to grow much in the valley anymore. Sucks for that industry but it’s future reality.

  7. #16682
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    Real Estate Crash thread

    Quote Originally Posted by liv2ski View Post
    I don't know about AZ, but much of So CAL will need to build desalinization plants going forward and you better have solar panels on the house to run the AC when the grid blacksout from to much use. That is the reality coming to CA in the next 10 years, maybe less.
    Solar doesn’t back up power and batteries won’t last long running ac in hot weather. A Tesla power wall will run a 3 ton compressor for five hours.

  8. #16683
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    What if your whole roof is solar and it is blazing sun all day? I understand batteries have limited capacity to power AC for very long, but what about during daylight hours. I thought solar could hang then, turning off an night?

  9. #16684
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    Seattle's ‘urban village’ strategy for growth not enough to keep housing affordable says new study. Need more housing types outside the urban villages instead of just single family houses.



    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...w-report-says/

  10. #16685
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    What if your whole roof is solar and it is blazing sun all day? I understand batteries have limited capacity to power AC for very long, but what about during daylight hours. I thought solar could hang then, turning off an night?
    That’s not how it works. You sell your solar power to the grid. Without a battery there’s no way you have reliable power let alone the amperage.

  11. #16686
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    In large part this is being driven by migration from eastern and midwestern states (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._net_migration). Even Utah's total fertility rate has dropped below 2 in recent years. Stop moving here, assholes!
    Glad I made it before you banned us east coasters.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  12. #16687
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    Why don’t we build solar power generation plants right on the border to power desalination plants, staff with imported daily labor, and tax them? Solve a few things at once.

  13. #16688
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4matic View Post
    That’s not how it works. You sell your solar power to the grid. Without a battery there’s no way you have reliable power let alone the amperage.
    I guess I don't understand how it works either. I thought that part of the promise of solar was to relieve peak AC load, which comes in the afternoon / early evening, so that rather then selling back to the grid at those times, you'd be using the power on-site. That's not the deal?

  14. #16689
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54-46 View Post
    Why don’t we build solar power generation plants right on the border to power desalination plants, staff with imported daily labor, and tax them? Solve a few things at once.
    desalination plants can also use tide flow to generate power.

  15. #16690
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    The discussion at hand is about domestic consumption in the east versus the west. I'm quite confident that I know far more about water use in the west than you do. I've written extensively about agricultural vs. domestic water use previously (see the California's Dry thread).
    Ok, great. So then why get all pissy about residential usage when the overwhelming majority of the problem lies with agriculture?

    Not saying that we can't all play our parts with reducing water usage (first thing I did at my house was xeriscape and rip out like 1/2 my grass sq footage), BUT the statement you made, and I quote, "you can pretty easily solve the shortage with the stroke of a pen." is patently idiotic if it completely fails to address big Ag.

    So, no. As much as you may know about water usage in the West, gonna have to call BS on shortages "easily" being solved by going after the residential users. How about commercial usage as well? Industrial? Some HUDGE water wasters there too.

  16. #16691
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan_pdx View Post
    I guess I don't understand how it works either. I thought that part of the promise of solar was to relieve peak AC load, which comes in the afternoon / early evening, so that rather then selling back to the grid at those times, you'd be using the power on-site. That's not the deal?
    That is how it works. Any excess is sold to the grid, but if the power goes out in the afternoon, your panels keep the power going in your home until the sun sets. Then you fire up the generator. Fuck batteries.

    https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/...verter-mb1494/

    When the Delta E5 hybrid inverter loses grid connection, it goes into “Stand Alone” mode. The ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch) inside the inverter cuts any energy exports to the grid and only supplies the critical load circuit. Once a load is applied, the CT (Current Transformer) inside the inverter recognises the load requirements, converts the DC from the solar panels to AC and supplies exactly what is needed to the appliance/s. The E5 has a built-in CT clamp measuring the loads as they rise and fall.

    Keep up 4matic
    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    I think you'd have an easier time understanding people if you remembered that 80% of them are fucking morons.
    That is why I like dogs, more than most people.

  17. #16692
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan_pdx View Post
    I guess I don't understand how it works either. I thought that part of the promise of solar was to relieve peak AC load, which comes in the afternoon / early evening, so that rather then selling back to the grid at those times, you'd be using the power on-site. That's not the deal?
    No. It might be viable at times but without something to smooth the power transition it doesn’t work. Can’t work. Home solar panels sell power back to the utility or supply a battery back. That’s why battery packs are a questionable investment but a nice luxury. Solar panels are routed through a transfer switch that only feeds generated power back to the grid. That’s why in some states it doesn’t make much sense because the buyback rate is so low. Nevada for example but that recently changed I believe.

    California mandates that power is credited at the market rate

  18. #16693
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    Ok, great. So then why get all pissy about residential usage when the overwhelming majority of the problem lies with agriculture?

    Not saying that we can't all play our parts with reducing water usage (first thing I did at my house was xeriscape and rip out like 1/2 my grass sq footage), BUT the statement you made, and I quote, "you can pretty easily solve the shortage with the stroke of a pen." is patently idiotic if it completely fails to address big Ag.

    So, no. As much as you may know about water usage in the West, gonna have to call BS on shortages "easily" being solved by going after the residential users. How about commercial usage as well? Industrial? Some HUDGE water wasters there too.
    Sorry, poor choice of words. I should have said "you can pretty easily erase the eastern/western domestic usage discrepancy with the stroke of a pen."

  19. #16694
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    Real Estate Crash thread

    In any power critical environment you have three sources of power: utility, battery, and backup with a transfer switch in between.

    Even the grid has battery backup.

    https://www.pge.com/en/about/newsroo..._420_megawatts

  20. #16695
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    Ok, great. So then why get all pissy about residential usage when the overwhelming majority of the problem lies with agriculture?

    Not saying that we can't all play our parts with reducing water usage (first thing I did at my house was xeriscape and rip out like 1/2 my grass sq footage), BUT the statement you made, and I quote, "you can pretty easily solve the shortage with the stroke of a pen." is patently idiotic if it completely fails to address big Ag.

    So, no. As much as you may know about water usage in the West, gonna have to call BS on shortages "easily" being solved by going after the residential users. How about commercial usage as well? Industrial? Some HUDGE water wasters there too.
    You know much of the central valley used to be a big marshland, right? We drained it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulare_Lake


    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    Seattle's ‘urban village’ strategy for growth not enough to keep housing affordable says new study. Need more housing types outside the urban villages instead of just single family houses.



    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...w-report-says/
    I'm surprised Madison park isn't one of the designated villages, I figured that explained why it has some of the only tall buildings on the lake.

  21. #16696
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraham View Post
    You know much of the central valley used to be a big marshland, right? We drained it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulare_Lake



    I'm surprised Madison park isn't one of the designated villages, I figured that explained why it has some of the only tall buildings on the lake.
    It’s still Port of Stockton. Big freighters in the heart of the valley

  22. #16697
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    Meanwhile in the rental market-

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The listing was up for two hours before it was rented. Owner said he had 8 people in line behind the person he rented it to.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  23. #16698
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4matic View Post
    With global ag don’t need to grow much in the valley anymore. Sucks for that industry but it’s future reality.
    the problems for ag globally are largely the same - not enough water in the places stuff is grown; the 4th largest lake in the world (aral sea) has disappeared because of irrigation diversions. Droughts in many of the worlds productive ag locations. Like risk water need doesn’t disappear, it’s just transferred

  24. #16699
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    Real Estate Crash thread

    Quote Originally Posted by liv2ski View Post
    That is how it works. Any excess is sold to the grid, but if the power goes out in the afternoon, your panels keep the power going in your home until the sun sets. Then you fire up the generator. Fuck batteries.

    https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/...verter-mb1494/

    When the Delta E5 hybrid inverter loses grid connection, it goes into “Stand Alone” mode. The ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch) inside the inverter cuts any energy exports to the grid and only supplies the critical load circuit. Once a load is applied, the CT (Current Transformer) inside the inverter recognises the load requirements, converts the DC from the solar panels to AC and supplies exactly what is needed to the appliance/s. The E5 has a built-in CT clamp measuring the loads as they rise and fall.

    Keep up 4matic
    I guarantee you not a single solar installer in California will install that system. It’s dangerous and a liability. Every time a cloud goes by you’d drop power eventually blowing out your devices.

    “Therefore, utility rules mandate that in the event of a power outage, solar arrays must automatically shut down. Solar systems have detectors that sense whether power is coming across the grid, and whenever grid power is down, they automatically shut down too, to protect utility workers.”

    The only way the E5 would be legal to operate without battery is an off grid system. Further, even if you could run that system in a grid powered location you would have to specify a single circuit, like refrigerator, with a known max current requirement. It’s not like you just transfer the whole house without power conditioning.
    Last edited by 4matic; 07-27-2021 at 03:08 PM.

  25. #16700
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    May 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan_pdx View Post
    I guess I don't understand how it works either. I thought that part of the promise of solar was to relieve peak AC load, which comes in the afternoon / early evening, so that rather then selling back to the grid at those times, you'd be using the power on-site. That's not the deal?
    Depends where you live I believe. Blue states likely, red ones? Not.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

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