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  1. #26
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    Sep 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by ml242 View Post
    my itb kills too, from the outside of my knee into my hips. i picked up some good tips from a physio and have been doing a lot of stretches, and also drinking a lot of water. it is helping so far, but the pain in both the knee and the piriformis (sp?) kind of stinks.
    Find that trigger point, as auvgeek notes. The spot that hurts the most when you push on it... and push hard till it spasms and relaxes. Orgasmic.
    PE, Mechanical Engineering
    University of Bridger Bowl Alumnus
    Alpental Creeper

  2. #27
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    Nov 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    Find that trigger point, as auvgeek notes. The spot that hurts the most when you push on it... and push hard till it spasms and relaxes. Orgasmic.
    Every time I try that move on the wife I get denied.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    103
    Have had a lot of knee & ankle injuries on both sides. I still roll out my IT band every night and before skiing/any sport out of habit... definitely psychological.

    Turns out that rolling out doesn't even help/isn't technically possible according to my PT. Probably better articles out there but a decent primer:

    https://www.rei.com/blog/run/please-...g-rolling-band

    Above link suggests

    1. Single Leg (SL) Hops- work on deceleration and alignment (get reps practicing proper mechanics to combat IT band tightness pulling knee)
    2. Monster walks- band around feet (as shown) is better than around knees or ankles
    3. Skaters (w/ band on ankle)

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    1,505
    Quote Originally Posted by 2FUNKY View Post
    Every time I try that move on the wife I get denied.
    Lol!


    Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

  5. #30
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    Yep, I tried rolling with no luck, then read a bunch more and decided it wasn't worth continuing. Learned to do the trigger point massage and strengthened glute med and it's all good now.

    Once in a while I'll get some tightness after getting dehydrated, but a quick jam on the trigger point and the muscle relaxes. Ah
    PE, Mechanical Engineering
    University of Bridger Bowl Alumnus
    Alpental Creeper

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Den/Baltimore
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    Find that trigger point, as auvgeek notes. The spot that hurts the most when you push on it... and push hard till it spasms and relaxes. Orgasmic.
    Ahhh

    And you get the rolling spasm where it keeps going if you move just a little bit north or south. Like you said, orgasmic.


    I've found the jacknobber is the best for the glutes and ITB. Love me some lax ball, too, but this thing is just amazing.
    Name:  61HFbsDm6hL._SX522_.jpg
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    The other thing that works really well for trigger point release, IME, is acupuncture. Similar to having your PT "dry needle" you, except an acupuncturist with a PhD has WAY more experience sticking needles in people than a DPT.

    For hip strengthening, I've become more and more of a fan of "functional range conditioning" approach lately. It's basically trying to expand your active range of motion instead of your passive range of motion -- meaning increasing your strength at your current end range. Yeah, banded monster walks and stuff work alright, too, but this stuff really gets me going.

    Hip controlled articular rotations. Feel this in glute med like crazy! Put a second lax ball in the small of your back so your hips don't shift throughout the movement



    hip internal rotation/external rotation flow. Keep in mind two things: 1) pinching of any kind is absolutely unacceptable in the hip. Back off if you feel a pinch in the front of your hip. 2) the person doing these is extremely flexible (at least compared to me) so don't really use how deep she goes as a guide. I have to use both hands for support throughout. But I get a huge cramp in my glute med with the IR one -- trying to lift up the back ankle in that position is super challenging for me. Really works my end ranges. Also: in the video, they only show half the positions -- you'd obviously need/want to do all the exercises with your right leg forward and then switch left leg forward and repeat all the exercises.



    ETA disclaimer: I'm not a medical doctor, this isn't medical advice, always consult your regular doctor/pt before performing anything, wear a helmet when you go outside, etc.-
    Last edited by auvgeek; 02-07-2019 at 01:57 PM.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

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  7. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Not Brooklyn
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    ^^^^^ Good stuff. Thanks.

  8. #33
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    Sep 2010
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    For sure! Also should mention that I see an amplified effect of this stuff when I do it as a warmup for lifting. Really gets stuff aligned and I feel better in my lifts and sore in the "right" places afterwards (squats actually do make your glute meds sore, never would have guessed!).

    Not to belabor the point, but I wanted to follow up with a better explanation of what's going on.

    The general idea is that passive range of motion isn't nearly as important for joint health as active ROM. I think this makes sense, especially for athletes -- you have to get used to generating force in awkward positions so your body doesn't break if you end up in that position while skiing/climbing/etc.

    There are two concepts that I find super powerful and let you design exercises for pretty much any joint:

    1. move the joint through it's full active range of motion under tension (aka muscle contraction). I like to do 20% tension for 2 reps forwards and 2 reps backwards and then 80% tension for 2 reps forwards and 2 reps backwards. That's 1 set and I do 2-4 sets. This is what that first video in my last post showed for the hip, but you can do that with the whole leg (similar to side lying leg lifts, but you make big circles), ankle, shoulders, etc. Just ensure there's no pain/clicking/ pinching in the joint when you do it -- if there is, back off on the ranges you're using. In the world of functional range conditioning (FRC), they call this a CAR (controlled articular rotation). I don't love all the acronyms, but I wanted to mention it if you're google around for more info on this stuff.

    2. take the joint to it's passive end range and then generate tension in both direction (towards and against the stretch) via isometric contraction. (This is what the second video in my last post demonstrated.) This similar to classic PT "contract relax" approach to stretching, except you also contract the opposing muscles as well. A favorite example is the classic adductor stretch*. It's typical to contract by pushing the leg into the ground and then sinking deeper into the stretch. But if I do the opposite and try to lift my foot up off the ground, my glutes fire like crazy and cramp up. It's such a simple concept, but I never thought to train my glutes to activate while my hip was in full abduction. [In the world of FRC, I think they call this PAILs/RAILs.]

    You can take these two concepts and apply them to any joint. Pretty crazy stuff.

    *This position, either standing or kneeling.
    Name:  Standing_Adductor_stretch.png
Views: 83
Size:  34.0 KB

    Disclaimer: I'm not a medical doctor, this isn't medical advice, always consult your regular doctor/pt before doing anything, wear a helmet if you leave your house, etc.
    Last edited by auvgeek; 02-07-2019 at 01:59 PM.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Moose, Iowa
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    5,840
    Quote Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds! View Post
    ^^^^^ Good stuff. Thanks.
    +2

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Eastern WA
    Posts
    332
    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    For sure! Also should mention that I see an amplified effect of this stuff when I do it as a warmup for lifting. Really gets stuff aligned and I feel better in my lifts and sore in the "right" places afterwards (squats actually do make your glute meds sore, never would have guessed!).

    Not to belabor the point, but I wanted to follow up with a better explanation of what's going on.

    The general idea is that passive range of motion isn't nearly as important for joint health as active ROM. I think this makes sense, especially for athletes -- you have to get used to generating force in awkward positions so your body doesn't break if you end up in that position while skiing/climbing/etc.

    There are two concepts that I find super powerful and let you design exercises for pretty much any joint:

    1. move the joint through it's full active range of motion under tension (isometric contraction). I like to do 20% tension for 2 reps forwards and 2 reps backwards and then 80% tension for 2 reps forwards and 2 reps backwards. That's 1 set and I do 2-4 sets. This is what that first video in my last post showed for the hip, but you can do that with the whole leg (similar to side lying leg lifts, but you make big circles), ankle, shoulders, etc. Just ensure there's no pain/clicking/ pinching in the joint when you do it -- if there is, back off on the ranges you're using.

    2. take the joint to it's passive end range and then generate tension in both direction (towards and against the stretch) via isometric contraction. (This is what the second video in my last post demonstrated.) This similar to classic PT "contract relax" approach to stretching, except you also contract the opposing muscles as well. A favorite example is the classic adductor stretch*. It's typical to contract by pushing the leg into the ground and then sinking deeper into the stretch. But if I do the opposite and try to lift my foot up off the ground, my glutes fire like crazy and cramp up. It's such a simple concept, but I never thought to train my glutes to activate while my hip was in full abduction.

    You can take these two concepts and apply them to any joint. Pretty crazy stuff.

    *This position, either standing or kneeling.
    Name:  Standing_Adductor_stretch.png
Views: 83
Size:  34.0 KB

    Disclaimer: I'm not a medical doctor, this isn't medical advice, always consult your regular doctor/pt before doing anything, wear a helmet if you leave your house, etc.
    This stuff may be interpreted as basically PNF, which has been used heavily in the PT profession since the 1940s. For example, you are combing a “classic PT contract relax” with a hold relax (those two have antagonistic definitions). Just an FYI if you dig this stuff and want to know where it all started

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Den/Baltimore
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    Quote Originally Posted by bourbonisgood View Post
    This stuff may be interpreted as basically PNF, which has been used heavily in the PT profession since the 1940s. For example, you are combing a “classic PT contract relax” with a hold relax (those two have antagonistic definitions). Just an FYI if you dig this stuff and want to know where it all started
    okay, fair point. I'll have to look more into PNF. I'm not claiming this is like a totally new invention or anything. I bet a lot of this stuff could also be interpreted as yoga as well, which has been around for millenia.

    But I've been to a TON of PTs, and none of them really explained the general principle of trying to gain strength at your end range of motion and trying to close the gap between your active and passive ROM like these "functional range conditioning" guys/girls have. The goal of the PNF through my PTs has generally been to get into a deeper stretch, not to get stronger in that position. Which to me is a big mind shift.

    And FWIW I don't have any affiliation with the FRC movement, just trying to educate myself and stay injury free the best way I know how. These approaches speak to me. It's corny, but I feel empowered by understanding general principles about the human body that I can apply to new injuries/ailments, and it allows me to converse better with my doctor(s). For me, understanding leads to doing consistently. If this stuff doesn't speak to you (generic you = anyone reading this), that's fine, and I hope you find something that works for you and helps you heal from any injuries.
    Last edited by auvgeek; 02-07-2019 at 02:24 PM.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  12. #37
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    29,371
    Is it the fibula head out of place?

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