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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
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    Suckramento
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    21,570

    Legal Mags and others...Interesting skiing Liability Case

    http://fsnews.findlaw.com/cases/ca/c...6/c049329.html

    Short version...Squaw not liable to girl who ran into snow making gun, based on primary assumption of the risk.
    Quando paramucho mi amore de felice carathon.
    Mundo paparazzi mi amore cicce verdi parasol.
    Questo abrigado tantamucho que canite carousel.


  2. #2
    BLOODSWEATSTEEL Guest
    Doh.

    Double pwnt.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    33,440
    I just heard about a case while I was in Montreal - not sure where it happened - but a racer sued a resort because the course workers were on the course when she was skiing her run (musta been a dh) and it sounded like she was prevailing. Evidently, she hit one of them or was injured avoiding them. It was a news blurb on tv and I missed part of it.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Jack Tone Road
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    12,740
    Ah, good ol' Greenman v. Yuba Power Products. A classic.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Up in ya face!
    Posts
    3,828
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven S. Dallas
    Ah, good ol' Greenman v. Yuba Power Products. A classic.
    Is this in any way related to Mr. Greenjeans v. Zuba Pants Company?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Wasatch Back: 7000'
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    13,075
    An interesting website that discusses ski area liability on a state by state basis. It is equally interesting for the pedestrian as well legally endowed.

    http://www.skilaw.com/stateskilawart.htm
    “How does it feel to be the greatest guitarist in the world? I don’t know, go ask Rory Gallagher”. — Jimi Hendrix

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Wrong Coast
    Posts
    414
    Its beautiful to see a case like that get squashed.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    over 8,000ft
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    1,045
    Good deal, if they would have found for the girl....what would be next....sueing ski areas for running into lift towers, restaruants, etc.....

    Someone I know was approched about the case with the boy at Squaw falling into the creek and dying.......I hope they [family of the boy] don't sue Squaw!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Denver
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    1,071
    It seems like every season I hear about an "intermediate" skier hitting snow making equipment and get seriously fucked up. In NY at least it seems that the mountain is typically not found at fault. But seriously, how hard is it to avoid something nearly the size of car over the course of a few hundred yards.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Suckramento
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    Quote Originally Posted by soul_skier
    people like that shouldn't be allowed near ski resorts, and an intermediate skier does not fall on the mountain run, its a friggin catrack, an intermediate skier bombs it switch, drunk, in the dark, with no pants, while getting a bj from a midget!
    Now that's core.
    Quando paramucho mi amore de felice carathon.
    Mundo paparazzi mi amore cicce verdi parasol.
    Questo abrigado tantamucho que canite carousel.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    the wasteland
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    3,181
    Quote Originally Posted by Scmidty
    People suing ski areas should be shot
    Quote Originally Posted by that other guy
    People shooting ski areas should be sued, well they should
    12345678
    You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Not in the PRB
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    33,260
    The only bad thing about this case is that she is an 8 year old girl. But the result is correct.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Redwood City and Alpine Meadows, CA
    Posts
    8,277
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven S. Dallas
    Ah, good ol' Greenman v. Yuba Power Products. A classic.
    Break out yer lighters....

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Deep Playa
    Posts
    4,824

    Talking

    Captain Obvious to the witness stand, please.

    Finally, because of the obvious danger, the very existence of a large, metal, plainly visible snowmaking hydrant serves as its own warning.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    37

    oh... but... DENIED

    I used to clerk for a judge in Summit/Eagle Counties (5th J.D.) and we had our fair share of ski area liability cases; most of the time they are losers and of course the state of Colorado has a large incentive to keep the ski resorts free of liability, except for the most ludicrous cases of neglect/reckless behavior.

    IIRC, more than 50% of day lift ticket costs goes to liability insurance... the rest covers expenses for operation (resorts make money from overnight stays and concessions, etc.).

    Rule of law baby!

    Pete

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,323

    Lawsuit Challenges Resort Liability in Colorado Ski Safety Act

    In March of 2022, 16-year-old Annie Miller boarded the Paradise Express with her father, Mike, at the end of the first day of their ski vacation in Crested Butte, Colorado. The Oklahoma teen slipped from her seat as the lift rose from the bottom terminal, holding onto the chair as it climbed to 30 feet before she lost her grip, falling onto the hard pack below. She shattered her C7 vertebrae, suffered bruising to her heart, injured her lung, and lacerated her liver. The accident has left her paralyzed from the waist down.

    According to the Millers, they, as well as the people standing in the lift line, were screaming for the lift operator to stop the chairlift from the time she boarded until the chair traveled 30 feet in the air, but that there were no operators standing at the lift controls. The lawsuit filed in December of 2022 claims that because of this, Crested Butte “consciously and recklessly disregarded the safety of Annie.”


    https://www.skimag.com/news/vail-res...sort-liability

    My knee-jerk reaction to this scenario as presented in the article, (acknowledging that I don't really know all the details, where the Devil likes to live), is that there should have been a lifty keeping an eye on the loading who could hit the STOP button quickly, and that there should always be someone close enough to hit STOP when needed, even if they're close by shoveling snow, talking to skiers in the line, etc. When people start screaming there's a problem someone's gotta be there to shut er down.

    Generally don't like the idea of ski areas getting sued, but sometimes there can be negligent behavior that perhaps shouldn't be excused. Interested to see how this case plays out, and curious what you experienced lift ops folks think about this one?
    The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    31,375
    except that its impossible for the lifty to hear someone screaming because of the noise of the lift motor, some one at the local hill dropped a ski last week nobody noticed it or heard the people on the chair yelling so it took awhile for the ski to make it topside

    It so noisey the local hill has big fucking speaker out there and you just gotta hope lifty has a good play list
    Last edited by XXX-er; 02-09-2024 at 03:25 PM.
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    on the banks of Fish Creek
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    7,650
    lifts take time stop after the button is pushed… and it ain’t gonna back up anyways. shoulda let go and dropped immediately instead holding on.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    191
    Quote Originally Posted by fomofo View Post
    In March of 2022, 16-year-old Annie Miller boarded the Paradise Express with her father, Mike, at the end of the first day of their ski vacation in Crested Butte, Colorado. The Oklahoma teen slipped from her seat as the lift rose from the bottom terminal, holding onto the chair as it climbed to 30 feet before she lost her grip, falling onto the hard pack below. She shattered her C7 vertebrae, suffered bruising to her heart, injured her lung, and lacerated her liver. The accident has left her paralyzed from the waist down.

    According to the Millers, they, as well as the people standing in the lift line, were screaming for the lift operator to stop the chairlift from the time she boarded until the chair traveled 30 feet in the air, but that there were no operators standing at the lift controls. The lawsuit filed in December of 2022 claims that because of this, Crested Butte “consciously and recklessly disregarded the safety of Annie.”


    https://www.skimag.com/news/vail-res...sort-liability

    My knee-jerk reaction to this scenario as presented in the article, (acknowledging that I don't really know all the details, where the Devil likes to live), is that there should have been a lifty keeping an eye on the loading who could hit the STOP button quickly, and that there should always be someone close enough to hit STOP when needed, even if they're close by shoveling snow, talking to skiers in the line, etc. When people start screaming there's a problem someone's gotta be there to shut er down.

    Generally don't like the idea of ski areas getting sued, but sometimes there can be negligent behavior that perhaps shouldn't be excused. Interested to see how this case plays out, and curious what you experienced lift ops folks think about this one?
    depends on the state, but generally the biggest exposure for resorts is the chairlifts. In california, ski resorts are actually considered common carriers when operating their lifts and have a duty of care. But, people can claim anything they want in a lawsuit. If the lifty really was that inattentive, that's an easy settlement for the resort.
    Not worth the risk of an actual jury trial. They tend to be sympathetic to people with catastrophic injuries. A jury verdict could potentially bankrupt a resort if they are adequately covered with GL insurance. See the recent Mt Hood case that shuttered their bike park permanently despite the pro-level rider causing his own injuries in a crash. Granted Oregon is a whole different beast than pretty much any other state since their releases of liability are essentially unenforceable. I honestly don't understand how ski resorts remain profitable in Oregon with that huge risk hanging over them 24/7/365.

    the whole tort law regime around ski resorts is endlessly interesting. People love to litigate anything and everything and the lawyers are fat and happy with the status quo. Though it is hard to argue against the incredible right we have in this country to hold others accountable legally despite its pitfalls.

    https://chalatlaw.com/skilaw/ for anyone's reading pleasure. I'm sure you'll be surprised how little recourse there is in most cases against both the resort and some other skier.

    practically, as mentioned above, don't try to hold on. Lifts tend to go up as you can imagine. I'll take a rough tumble into the pit over a 30ft fall any day of the week. A normal stop typically takes at least 6 seconds while an e-stop is hardly much quicker at 4.5s plus potentially creating problems on other chairs with the chair swing.

    I will say though, lifty is a brutal job. You basically stand there for hours watching/helping people load, looking up the line and then doing that over and over again every 7 seconds and try not to miss anything while you complete all the other tasks like raking. Now, do all that while high as a kite. Good operations need to constantly rotate their lifty to other tasks to prevent the burnout of such repetitive tasks.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    50 miles E of Paradise
    Posts
    15,792
    At Mt Brokenchair, there is always someone near the controls. If asked, they will slow the roll on bullwheel chair speed as well as help little kids get their backs to the backrest.

    Last year I took a ride single with this group of Grandpa, Uncle and 10-12YO boy. They didn’t ask for help, Kid lacked the skill to load and got swept into the pit. Chair stopped about 10’ from terminal which is about 10’ off the ground. After the lift op didn’t heed Grandpa’s yelling to “back the chair up”, he purposely exited the chair and collapsed like a rag doll on landing.

    After the liftie helped Grandpa get up and do his walk of shame back to the terminal, Uncle looks over and sez “we’ve been to Mt Bachelor four times now. Every time, somebody in our group gets knocked off the chair. And it’s always the lifty’s fault!”

    “So, every time you come here, someone from your group gets knocked into the pit?”
    “Yeah!”
    “Yeah, that’s on you and your group, not the lifties”

    I pointed out the three ways Grandpa and Uncle failed the kid. And if he wanted someone to blame he should look in a mirror, not at the lift crew.

    The rest of the ride was kinda quiet…

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    31,375
    are we talking about fixed chairs or detachable ?

    the local chair is 60 yrs old and chairs are fixed so I have seen people have problems loading

    but a detached chair goes at maybe 1/2 speed thru the reload area

    obviuosly the person in the above situation should have let go when it wa obvioius shit was going sideways
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    50 miles E of Paradise
    Posts
    15,792
    Detachable

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    Down In A Hole, Up in the Sky
    Posts
    35,672
    Penis
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    truckee
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    23,409
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    are we talking about fixed chairs or detachable ?

    the local chair is 60 yrs old and chairs are fixed so I have seen people have problems loading

    but a detached chair goes at maybe 1/2 speed thru the reload area

    obviuosly the person in the above situation should have let go when it wa obvioius shit was going sideways
    And obviously a 16 year old girl will know exactly what to do in a dangerous, frightening situation she has never faced before (I hope) and make the decision to do it quickly enough to save herself from serious injury.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    50 miles E of Paradise
    Posts
    15,792
    Anybody know how much this guy got because of Vail lifty’s inattention?
    Name:  IMG_0261.jpeg
Views: 532
Size:  89.8 KB

    That made me always check chairs coming around the bullwheel to make sure the bench is down.

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