Gas Prices

[powstash]

you know prices are bad when dawn patrols to LCC/BCC become a gift to myself cause it drains 1/4 tank to get there and back. It's so hard to say no to skiing pow but I have to find pow in closer to work/home locations.

I'm so buying a bike for work commuting this summer. Perhaps next winter I'll be able to keep up with Trackhead on the skin track.

[Ireallyliketoski2]

No matter what happened that sold me once shame on you
You come up and here and do it again then its shame on me
Sometimes we be getting in trouble you didn't want learn
Sometimes we be getting so rude you ain't want see
I accept my wages like the way that I fail
I grow, I take strides and put 'em under my belt
I learned from you just like you learned from me
I plead, I pray for peace and perfect harmony
Somebody say fool you better keep on rapping
Stop that trippin', causin it ain't gone happin'
I told them look you better mind yo business
Change yo' way of thinking and keep on living
Done started some trouble and you ain't been out since
Cause you stuck inside scared watching CNN
Just take the precaution so yo life a be better
Tell my friends to call me I ain't accepting no letters

[erica_z]

I'd give up my WRX if I could find a reliable AWD diesel or hyrbid wagon that would get over 30 mpg. Does such a thing exist yet in the US?

Ive got a Suby 2.5 RS wagon. I still have AWD standard and antilock brakes and all that jazz, standard, and I get about 25 mpg city 31-32 mpg highway but I don't have 210 horsepower and I dont have to buy premium.

It gets pretty darn decent mileage for an AWD vehicle and I love not having to pony up for premium. 166 horsepower is plenty for getting up the grades in the mountain.

Maybe you could downgrade from a WRX to a 2.5 rs? (now called the 2.5 i)

[sirbumpsalot]

$3.00 a gallon is still cheaper than bottled water and beats walking.

[Mofro261]

Unrelated to gas prices but...

Today driving to work I saw a very shiny 2005 BMW 330i with this personalized license plate:
HEMP

[Jer]

I'm so buying a bike for work commuting this summer. Perhaps next winter I'll be able to keep up with Trackhead on the skin track.

Bike commuted most of this year, carpooled the rest - even on ski days. It helps, both physically and financially. According to AAA, by ditching a car I saved about $8k (I'm sure it wasn't that much, though.)

My wife still drives most of the time. Small steps. Lead by example (with mouth firmly shut.)

powstash, if you're into super cheap or rebuilding, rummage through the gear at this shop.

[Tippster]

Makes you wonder why city people still think these are cool:



There's absolutely no need to own a dually unless you live on a goddamn farm... of which there are none in MY city. I hate the selfish bastards that merely drive them because they're "Cool" or "for safety." There's absolutely nothing cool about these trucks. Grow a dick.

[pattyowe]

2.44 in Bozeman, MT

[skiaholik]

True, but I believe the raise in price (during summers) has more to do with the chance to make more money than the fact the supply is being depleted.

I'm sorry but it has nothing to do with chance of making more money. Yes, the markets for gas stations/companies are not perfectly competitive but the firms cannot dictate prices higher than consumers are willing to pay. It just doesn't work that way. People respond to changes in prices. Just read the responses on this board, some are using bikes more others are fruitbootin it. The thing is that our sensitivity to changes in price aka, how much we decrease our consumption, is so small that it takes really large changes in price before we start cutting back on gasoline consumption. Yes, if we all decided that tomorrow we are going to use 1/2 the amount of gasoline we do today the prices would be lower, but that's just stupid and not going to happen. You do see people using less gasoline by consolidating errands, walking or cycling to places that are close that they use to drive through, carpooling more, etc.

Then some people talk about getting hybrids as if the fact they have better gas mileage is a legit solution. Sound wierd? As a bunch of the print media and many academic papers could tell you, the amount of mileage you need to put on the hybrid to actually generate savings is quite high (well over 100,000mi if I recall correctly). Hybrids get better gas mileage but they cost more than an equivalent non-hybrid counterpart. To recoup the price difference through gas savings you need to keep the vehicle for at least 4-5 years. I know many of you have had your car for this long but it isn't the national trend. So let's say you do keep it for 4-5, you'd still have to keep it for longer to actually be saving money instead of just breaking even. Now if you buy a hybrid because you want to pollute the environment less that's another thing, but that's rarely the direct motive of the consumer.

If prices remain at current levels and/or continue an upward trend you'll likely see more hybrid models and greater production of the current ones which will in turn generate more competition in the hybrid market and reduce the price of them. Thus the pay off period will decrease and it will be more economical to own one.

I apologize for cunting this survey thread but once people started complaining and saying things that defy simple economic behavior I had to say something. I don't mean to come off smug or arrogant, I just wanted to be informative about what is actually happening.

[funkendrenchman]

I'm sorry but it has nothing to do with chance of making more money.

Bet yet they are making more money than ever. Why not lower gas prices and keep their profits the same?

Explain to me why their profits are up. If oil prices have gone up and they haven't cut their manufacturing costs and demand has been decreased, how in the world can they make more money?

They should only raise their prices by the amount needed to cover the increase in their costs. Instead, they have been rasing it more than the increase in costs and as a result are making greater profit.

[peterslovo]

Paid $2.90/gallon for diesel today up here in Vacationland. I think it is about time to convert the TDI to grease...

[P_McPoser]

mmmmmmmmmm 85 dollar fill-up!

[fiddler]

2.799 to 3.089 for 87 oct. in Bellingham.

The free market is so corrupted by politics, monopoly and greed it's barely functional. Economic theory is fine, but reality is something else.

I remember gas rationing. Living on San Juan Island it didn't affect me much unless I went off island. Gas was always higher priced there but on a 56 sq mile island there was nothing all that far away.

[skiaholik]

Bet yet they are making more money than ever. Why not lower gas prices and keep their profits the same?

Explain to me why their profits are up. If oil prices have gone up and they haven't cut their manufacturing costs and demand has been decreased, how in the world can they make more money?

They should only raise their prices by the amount needed to cover the increase in their costs. Instead, they have been rasing it more than the increase in costs and as a result are making greater profit.

I'll answer part of it now because it's late and I'm not quite sure how best to word the answer to the rest of it. You're right, oil prices have gone up, the price per barrel of crude oil is around where it was in sept/oct. Since the demand for gasoline is so inelastic (price insensitive) a majority of the incidence of the increase in cost (burden) is on the consumer. This isn't because the companies are evil and trying to stick it to us, it's because of our preference gasoline. A gasoline firm cannot raise the price of gasoline by more than the increase in cost (actually it won't go up quite as much as the full cost). Say Exxon tries passing on a $0.40 increase in gas to consumers when the cost increase was only $0.20. Well the Sunoco or BP or whatever across the road or down the street is going to charge some price between $0.20 and $0.40 to gain a larger share of the market. Exxon will respond by doing the same thing but between the new price and the $0.20. This will happen rather quick or not at all (because they know the outcome). Gasoline is a homogenous good. Same shit at each pump. One of the main reasons you'll find places near each other chargin a bit different is if say they have a convience store too or a garage or something else. They figure if you want food or something else you're not gonna pull across the street get gas and then pull into their place to get food, you'll pay the extra couple pennys to save time.

I'll get back to you about the change in profit thing and how that all works out. But I'm tired and I don't want to muddle it up.

[snowranger]

The average home is like 100% higher more expensive than in previous years, and you guys are worried about gas prices? Think about how much of your income is spent on housing versus gasoline and food. Americans still have it easy compared to a lot of other places.

[Dirty Hoar]

Skiaholic,
With all respect your responses sound so textbook and assume the oil companies are honest and playing by the rules, among other assumptions.

They can jack the price up because we are dependent on oil. In fact we are addicted. Remember, the president said so. For the most part we have to buy gas at any price to get our fix.

I would say chances are all the ceo's of all the major oil companies have each other on speed dial. The independent oil companies will make more money just going along with the big guys than trying to compete at the pump.

I'm going to bed... oh ya, "simple economic behavior???" So 50's

[bc]

Let gas prices go up. I paid $2.99/gal for 87 unleaded today for my truck that gets 13mpg. I can barely afford it, and it's still OK with me if gas prices go higher. Maybe then the American public will be willing to spend the money necessary to develop better public transit--rail, etc.

[seatosky]

Gas prices are a great example of people making irrational "feel good" choices that don't necessarily make good economic sense (eg: spending $ on a new high efficiency car instead of keeping the old guzzler going).

I live very close to sea level. Buying a fuel-efficient car had nothing to do with 'feelgood' decisionmaking, it's pure selfishness - I like my beach, but it's close enough.

[ulty_guy]

i haven't clued in to a lot of these arguments, but from what i can see, a few things have been overlooked. first of all, there hasn't been a new refinery built in the usa in ages. bp's texas city refinery has been out since hurricane rita last year (3rd biggest refinery in america). the regions that produce 'sweet' crude which is the easiest to refine have been the ones with the most problems actually getting their oil to market (venezuela and nigeria, both in the top 5 of usa oil importing countries). shell and eni have had to call force majure on numerous cargoes out of nigeria. cracks (the spreads b/t crude and refined products like gasoline) are at huge levels which means that the market is bidding for people to build refineries. the surge in crude has nothing to do w/ current supply levels in america, in fact, they're at their highest levels in a decade and are 'bidding' via the near term contango for whatever above ground storage there is. crude price surge has to do with the future and the fact that there could be a supply disruption in iran or a larger one in nigeria which would send prices automatically over $100 b/c of short covering.

[AtomicTwinStix]

2.78 - 2.98/gal Regular - Greenville, SC

of course major locations and individual companies contribute to that .20 swing

yep, you guessed it....Shell, BP, Exxon on the high end

Kangaroo, Hess, Spinx on the low

...this is out of fucking control. I feel sorry for those who are already paying over three bucks a gallon...We will be there soon enough...Its like clockwork on my way to work in the morning...the little chick at the Citgo has her big sticky number pole, sliding the numbers up every morning.....this sucks

[skiaholik]

Skiaholic,
With all respect your responses sound so textbook and assume the oil companies are honest and playing by the rules, among other assumptions.

They can jack the price up because we are dependent on oil. In fact we are addicted. Remember, the president said so. For the most part we have to buy gas at any price to get our fix.

I would say chances are all the ceo's of all the major oil companies have each other on speed dial. The independent oil companies will make more money just going along with the big guys than trying to compete at the pump.

I'm going to bed... oh ya, "simple economic behavior???" So 50's

I know my responses are very standard textbook style and I'm not ignorant or wishful enough to believe that the market is perfect or operates as smoothly as a textbook would suggest but it's not that far off either. They may be charging a bit higher but they do not have full reign on prices and I doubt there is large amount of sophisticated collusion as the FTC is pretty strict on that matter. The very recent upswing in prices is for a lot of reason that someone just mentioned above with regards to international prices and ideas about future occurences. In case everyone forget after prices spiked in sept/oct they slowly made their way back down to a reasonable level similar to what they were last summer or a bit earlier (I saw gas for $1.99 in Jackson in Jan and here it was like $2.21 or around that)

Firms do have some bargaining power with respect to price levels my whole point in chiming in is that they aren't standing there deliberating how to fuck everyone over and charging whatever price they desire.

[lemon boy]

I live very close to sea level. Buying a fuel-efficient car had nothing to do with 'feelgood' decisionmaking, it's pure selfishness - I like my beach, but it's close enough.

Huh?


Peterslovo- the conversion to grease/homebrew is a short term prospect unless you're willing to do some things that the average greaser isn't (namely entering into exclusive contracts with suppliers to actually pay them) ready for being tied to the "free" idea. And it really requires a fair amount of shop space if you were to do it "right."

[DaveTV]

Zipping along in the empty HOV(Car Pool) lane on the bike this morning, while the rest of the expressway crawls along in single-occupant vehicles, I asked myself just how high will gas go to force these people into car pooling or using our above-average public transit system, etc.. People are just sucking it up.

[ArmadaBC]

Let gas prices go up. I paid $2.99/gal for 87 unleaded today for my truck that gets 13mpg. I can barely afford it, and it's still OK with me if gas prices go higher. Maybe then the American public will be willing to spend the money necessary to develop better public transit--rail, etc.

That is some of the problem here in Philly, I ride my bike but regional rail only goes about 20 miles. Alot of the commuters live too far away to ride regional rail so regardless of gas prices they are driving. Add to that that some of the trains only run once every hour and only until 12 and shit no one wants to ride. But they can't increase service because SEPTA is broke and forced to rely on the state to make up the difference. I don't know about other major cities but until our situation gets worked out everyone is going to continue to drive.

[powderwhore]

Bet yet they are making more money than ever. Why not lower gas prices and keep their profits the same?

Explain to me why their profits are up. If oil prices have gone up and they haven't cut their manufacturing costs and demand has been decreased, how in the world can they make more money?

They should only raise their prices by the amount needed to cover the increase in their costs. Instead, they have been rasing it more than the increase in costs and as a result are making greater profit.

Corporations are in the buisness of making money! Thats why. They will charge as much as we are willing to pay. If we lower our cosumption of their product the corporations will in turn lower their production and the price will likely stay the same.