F*ck! 2 DOA, possible 2 more. Mammoth Patrol

[Joey Bag O' Donuts]

So, so , sad Just got off the phone with my roomate up in mammoth (she is a respiratory therapist at the mammoth hospital), and is absolutely distraught over the whole thing. My prayers go out to the ski patrol, their friends, and their family.

[stomp]

this sucks balls... condolences and +++vibes to all involved.

[Ubersheist]

F'ing terrible... My deepest sympathies go out to the friends and families of the deceased. Terrible, terrible, terrible.

There is one active vent on Mammoth, it is not a sink-hole, but a volcanic vent.

The holes you see up on Paranoids and Phillipes are not volcanic, nor vents. They are where the snow has collapsed into the void between the rocks. It's not related to volcanism nor geothermal activity.

There's at least 6 active vents that I've heard of on Mammoth, probably more. They're the last remnants of the volcanic activity on Mammoth Mountain from about 100,000 years ago. More recent volcanism has occurred in the region, just not on Mammoth Mountain itself. Several volcanoes popped up the last couple 1000 years farther towards the north between June and Mammoth, and there's possibly one underneath Mono Lake that's less then 200 years old. The most recent potential activity is farther to the south near Lake Crowley and that little town whose name eludes me right now.

The perpetraitor of yesterday's accident is far and away the largest and most geothermally active vent on Mammoth Mountain itself. However, more gasses are emitted from a fumerole between the bottom of Chairs 11 (Sesame St. Express or whatever they also call it now) and 12. This is in the area of the dead trees. These vents aren't geothermally heated, so there's not the problems with collapsing snow that you have with the one near Chair 3. Threre's also similar vents near the bottoms of Chairs 12 and 14. There's at least one more in the general area, and one out by Chair 9, but I can't remember exactly where.

About 10-15 years ago a skier (I think it was actually a snowboarder, but I'm not sure) got stuck in a tree well near the bottom of Chair 12. The rescuers attributed the death due to lack of oxygen, but exacerbated by the gasses emitted from one of the vents near Chair 12. They said that he was buried, but in a small pocket of gasses, not air. He would've had a better chance for survival if the snow in that area wasn't saturated with CO gasses from the vent.

Also, there's a very small vent that's slightly geothermally heated near the top of the Paranoids - I think at the top of P1 or 2, but I'm not sure and have never been able to find it. It's not large enough to affect the snow in general.

Anyway, hopefully this latest tragety will be the worst and the last for years to come. Terrible, terrible, terrible...

[DrPete]

I'm not a frequent poster here but thought I would interject. I'm a doc at the Mammoth Hospital so definitely in the thick of it.

Just wanted to praise the heroism of the guys that in the most dramatic and obvious way risked their lives to try to save their friends. Clearly Walter died a hero's death and made a decision that I think was reasonable at the time. We all have the benefit of hindsight and knowing that his decision would lead to his death, but for all he knew at the time, he was going to be able to hold his breath and somehow grapple the young guys out of there. It was a very brave altruistic decision and I think everyone was suprised how quickly the victims were overcome.
The mountains emergency response and the hospitals were stellar.
Let's appreciate those that risk their lives daily for us, our friends and family, while still engaging in our passions that make us who we are.

[bad_roo]

It sounds like a health and safety balls up to have staff attending a scene where snow is at a record level, it's being heated thermally from below and where you can't breathe if you fall in. I appreciate that hindisght is 20/20 but any other industry would view this as seriously lax procedure to put employees in such a position without adequate training and equipment.

[DrPete]

I think it was an rare and unusual situation that caught everyone by suprise. Co-workers of mine (ex-patrol) had fallen in before in times of lower snow, no big deal. And friends used to crawl into similar fumaroles elsewhere on the mt to smoke pot. The lethality was unexpected. I'm sure things will change now.

[skiguide]

thank you for the two expert views and opinions, DrPete and Ubershiest (our resident CA geologist)

[solstice]

Any other names released yet? I also know somebody on that patrol.

[summit]

DrPete thank you for your info.

This is terrible. There is a lot of death going on.

[45hill]

The press conference going on as I wright this. Here's a link to everything you'll ever need to know about the Long Valley Caldera.

http://lvo.wr.usgs.gov/

Mammoth Mountain Fumerole.
Click on MMF

http://lvo.wr.usgs.gov/fumaroles.htm

[rip]

wow, this thread hit me really hard today. What a horrible accident.

Its always bad to hear about any deaths or injuries but for me the ones that hit me the most are anyone who sacrifices their life in an attempt to save another. Recently with Coombs dying in an attempt to get to his friend and these patrol jumping into the pit to try and save their friends/coworkers...I dont know it just sucks. I can only hope that I can act in the same way if I ever get into the same situation.

These people are true heros.

[mountainbored]

Any other names released yet? I also know somebody on that patrol.

I just posted on the Mammoth forum a moment ago, from press release.
No response there is necessary, just silence and sympathy.

[H-wood]

1. Second everything Pete says. He is the man.

2. Bullet- The hole on top of the 'Noids may not be as active, but trust me, that's a vent too. I almost died last year falling in that hole- same exact (and one-in-a-million) circumstances: huge year, huge storm, hollow chamber created by blocked vent. I could feel the warmth and it smelled. Don't fuck with holes on Mammoth Mtn.

3. Bad_Roo (and anyone else who feels compelled to pick this apart from a thousand miles away): Respectfully, you have no idea what you're talking about. None.
That spot is one of literally hundreds of potentially deadly areas on Mammoth Mountain. Even under normal conditions, the hill is the most wind-loaded and avalanche prone mountain in California, and it also happens to be part of an active volcano in an earthquake area. Thinking that it is a controllable product like a car or amusement park is pretty optimistic. The only way to make Mammoth Mountain "safe" would be to close it.

Our ski patrol is incredible, and the folks who run this mountain are only able to run it as safely as they do because many of them have been on that hill daily for decades and know it like their own skin. Patrollers risk their lives (this year on an almost daily basis) and work their asses off to make the mountain as safe as possible, so that people can play there and our town can exist. And they do it for fucking pennies.

I'm sure that lessons will be learned from this accident, but I guarantee you won't hear any locals second-guessing decisions made by people we consider heroes.

H

[You Gooch!]

The names are out there already.

http://www.mammothmountain.com/compa...ses.cfm?id=377


Deepest sypathies to the family and friends of all involved.

It was sickening to see the "breaking news video" last night on tv of the guys being hauled down and worked on. Was that actually necessary? Now they're connecting the Jan deaths and this tragedy as some indictment against a mountain that generally has an impeccably trained Ski Patrol and excellent focus on safety.

[Danno]

This was posted on TTips:

This following was posted on the Mammoth website:

April 7, 2006

Contact: Rusty Gregory, Mammoth Mountain Ski Area CEO 760.934.0645

Mammoth Mountain Ski Area, CA -- At approximately 11:29am yesterday, Thursday, April 6, 2006, four experienced Mammoth Mountain Ski Patrollers were inspecting the mountain after recent heavy snowstorms. The patrollers were fencing off a natural hazard, a deep gas vent, on Christmas Bowl run, east of Chair 3 when the snow around the vent collapsed. Two patrollers, John McAndrews and James Juarez, fell into the approximately 6-ft hole, down 21 feet of snow to the earth. Two patrollers attempting to help, Walter Rosenthal and Jeff Bridges, descended into the hole. Members of Mammoth Mountain Ski Patrol working nearby quickly initiated additional rescue efforts and were assisted by the Mammoth Lakes Fire Department and Mono County Paramedics. The victims were immediately transported to Mammoth Hospital. Mammoth Mountain Ski Patroller Jeff Bridges survived and Rosenthal, McAndrews and Juarez perished as a result of the accident.

Additional employees who assisted in the rescue were transported to Mammoth Hospital for observation. A total of seven were admitted and six were kept overnight including Bridges. All are expected to be released by mid-morning today.

The cause of death has not yet been determined by the Mono County Sheriff's Department but is possibly due to oxygen deprivation and/or being overcome by toxic gasses. The information will be released pending autopsies and toxicological results.

Victims

James Juarez, 35, a five-year veteran of Mammoth Mountain Ski Patrol originally from Granada Hills, California.

John "Scott" McAndrews, 37, a Mammoth Mountain Ski Patroller for one year from Bishop, California.

Charles Walter Rosenthal, 58, of Sunny Slopes, California a veteran of Mammoth Mountain Ski Patrol since 1972

[tarkman1]

Heros. Family. Friends. Fallen.

I talked to James on Saturday in the Patrol station in the upper gondie station. The conversation was cut short when he left to respond to a distress call.

[yogachik]

here's a video of the vent:
http://www.dropshots.com/day.php?use...7&ctime=094927

[divegirl]

I'm so saddened by this turn of events. I've been bummed all day since Lego told me last night. This is just so fucking sad. Condolences out to all families and patrollers involved.

[Bodhi]

Shit. Shit. Shit.

Shock.

My stomach has just dropped, like I am going to hurl.

Walter was a fixture of stability and knowledge at Mammoth. I rode on the gondi with John two weeks ago, hard to believe he is gone along with James and Walter.

This year has been a crazy mixed year of exhuberance (with all the snow) and sorrow (with the four Patrol deaths).

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ vibes +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
For Jeff and the families of the three patrrolmen who lost their lives yesterday.

This is so distressing and sickening. Ugly surreal shock.

[Arty50]

I wanted to beat the shit out of a guy in the coffee shop this morning. Normally I don't engage assholes, but I had to throw out the "That really not fucking cool" this morning.

He was talking with a friend across the shop about the incident and blurted out, "What a bunch of fucking idiots. I mean, how do you fall into a ditch and die?"

I tried to argue, but the guy was way too cool for school. "I'm so gnar. I can criticize them because I've done it myself...blah...blah...blah." Perhaps if the dumbass had bothered to comprehend the article he had just read, he would have realized that it was a freak accident. It's one thing to shit on the dead, but it's entirely different to do it when you're an ignorant dumbass.

[Tippster]

Was it Carbon Monoxide (CO, NOT CO2!) poisoning or something else, like Sulfur Dioxide, Chlorine, etc. in combination? How long (or short) of an exposure is necessary to get a fatal CO dose?

[45hill]

Was it Carbon Monoxide (CO, NOT CO2!) poisoning or something else, like Sulfur Dioxide, Chlorine, etc. in combination? How long (or short) of an exposure is necessary to get a fatal CO dose?

All the infromation you'll ever need.

http://lvo.wr.usgs.gov/helium.html

[bad_roo]

Bad_Roo (and anyone else who feels compelled to pick this apart from a thousand miles away): Respectfully, you have no idea what you're talking about. None.
That spot is one of literally hundreds of potentially deadly areas on Mammoth Mountain. Even under normal conditions, the hill is the most wind-loaded and avalanche prone mountain in California, and it also happens to be part of an active volcano in an earthquake area. Thinking that it is a controllable product like a car or amusement park is pretty optimistic. The only way to make Mammoth Mountain "safe" would be to close it.

An inquest will prove one of us correct.

[kidwoo]

Was it Carbon Monoxide (CO, NOT CO2!) poisoning or something else, like Sulfur Dioxide, Chlorine, etc. in combination? How long (or short) of an exposure is necessary to get a fatal CO dose?

It's CO2. And it's lethal at what that vent normally puts out.

CO is a product of incomplete combustion and certainly not coming out of any vents in mammoth. If it were CO, the entire town would be evacuated.

It's normally not a big deal with ventillation. I've stood next to that thing several times screwing around with equipment but when you get the chamber formed by the heated pocket, you literally only need one breath and you're dead.

edit: beat to the punch by our own website

[yogachik]

An inquest will prove one of us correct.

sorry roo, but you're out of line.

I'd love to hear your reaction if it were a guest/skier who fell in - you'd be very vocal, probably, wondering why Ski Patrol hadn't fenced off the area.

It's true that this was a record-breaking snowfall season and no one had any experience with how the snow would settle - but they were working to make the area safe for ALL. I'm sure there will be lawsuits and lots of blame thrown but, ultimately, these guys were working to SECURE THE AREA.