Do Mormons really affect you?

[new yabyum]

If you'd been here prior to 2008, you'd reappraise your evaluation of the local Momos. They don't have their boot on your neck quite so much because they've had their numbers diluted by a few thousand Jackson workers buying homes here over the last two decades. You missed our nasty little culture war. The Momos turned a very corrupt and incompetent police force loose on the rest of us. They were determined to put a sub-division on every piece of farmland that they could and to hell with planning, regulations, infrastructure, economic common sense, etc; they played a very large role in turning the Teton Valley into the foreclosure capital of the Rockies. Politics was very, very nasty. It was clear to everybody else that the real estate disaster was on our doorstep. When they lost power and a development moratorium was issued, a few hundred enraged Momos formed a mob and rushed the offices of the county commissioners, screaming "don't bar the door on our prosperity." The subsequent, near total collapse of the building economy really knocked the wind out of their sails. But, if you have kids in the public school here, you'll see they still have their boot on the neck of the local kids.

We were regular visitors back then and it was indeed nasty. The dilution has been good.

[snapt]

The Momos turned a very corrupt and incompetent police force loose on the rest of us.

I've heard stories about this. A good friend of mine is a pretty cool Momo and says every time he sees a big uproar on the news of a cop killing some unarmed minority he expects it to be one of our ex sheriffs.

[thebirdhunter]

Stupid ass fucking mormons never really affected me until now. First they locked their citizens out of 2700 miles of rivers and streams now this whole federal land grab bullshit.
Gov. Herbert, Jason Chaffetz, Rob Bishop and every mormon fuck who voted for them can go fuck themselves.

[jackattack]

Gov. Herbert, Jason Chaffetz, Rob Bishop and every fuck, mormon or not, who voted for them can go fuck themselves.

agreed

[bigdude2468]

agreed

I live in SLC all winter, been skiing here for 30 years and have had zero runs in with any Mormons. Never been approached, never had any reason to complain. The land issue is much deeper than just "Mormon's grabbing land". Being a former resident of Illinois with bankrupt pensions, mob heavily involved in Illinois politics and Chgo being the murder capital of the US, Utah is not too bad. IL has a unfunded pension liability of $111 billion; to put in perspective that is three times what Illinois collects in revenue each year.

Utah gets slammed for the liquor laws but several states besides Utah run the retail operations that sell liquor. I find the state stores in Utah to be not as weird as most people imply. BTW, Minnesota does not allow liquor sales on Sunday and grocery stores can only sell 3.2% beer, just like UT.

Not sure where else I can live in the burbs and play golf and 13 miles away be skiing world class resorts.

[Kenny Satch]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n3BqLZ8UoZk

This is what I watched and thought it must be propaganda....I guess not

[phatty]

Non-Utah Mormon here. Not too many of us here on the boards. Born and raised in the PNW but did undergrad and law school at BYU. Served a mission in NYC back in the mid 90s. Have a brother living in SLC and my parents bought a place in Utah Valley on the west side of the lake, so I visit frequently.

I'm not part of the politics, but what's being lumped as Mormons in UT is the same as any large group once they get some power. People are still that just that. Most UT Mormons I know are just trying to live their lives same as anyone else. You have issues you're passionate about and they do to. As an outsider, I support the monuments and public land, but it doesn't have a daily impact on me.

As a general rule I try not to paint any group with a broad brush. When it becomes "us" versus "them" is when we start getting into trouble.

I'm not going to push anything on anyone, especially here, but if people want to read about some of the more "interesting" beliefs, the church wrote a bunch of essays which are surprisingly even handed. They are still from the church, so take it with a grain of salt.

https://www.lds.org/topics/essays?lang=eng&old=true

[Sirshredalot]

I live in SLC all winter, been skiing here for 30 years and have had zero runs in with any Mormons. Never been approached, never had any reason to complain. The land issue is much deeper than just "Mormon's grabbing land". Being a former resident of Illinois with bankrupt pensions, mob heavily involved in Illinois politics and Chgo being the murder capital of the US, Utah is not too bad. IL has a unfunded pension liability of $111 billion; to put in perspective that is three times what Illinois collects in revenue each year.

Utah gets slammed for the liquor laws but several states besides Utah run the retail operations that sell liquor. I find the state stores in Utah to be not as weird as most people imply. BTW, Minnesota does not allow liquor sales on Sunday and grocery stores can only sell 3.2% beer, just like UT.

Not sure where else I can live in the burbs and play golf and 13 miles away be skiing world class resorts.

FYI: Chicago has nowhere near the highest per capita murder rate in the US and Utah DOES have far and away the most restrictive liquor laws. Out of touch guys your age need to unplug from the propaganda. You're enabling the political careers of the buffoons we have to deal with here in UT.

[straightlineorbust]

Non-Utah Mormon here. Not too many of us here on the boards. Born and raised in the PNW but did undergrad and law school at BYU. Served a mission in NYC back in the mid 90s. Have a brother living in SLC and my parents bought a place in Utah Valley on the west side of the lake, so I visit frequently.

I'm not part of the politics, but what's being lumped as Mormons in UT is the same as any large group once they get some power. People are still that just that. Most UT Mormons I know are just trying to live their lives same as anyone else. You have issues you're passionate about and they do to. As an outsider, I support the monuments and public land, but it doesn't have a daily impact on me.

As a general rule I try not to paint any group with a broad brush. When it becomes "us" versus "them" is when we start getting into trouble.

I'm not going to push anything on anyone, especially here, but if people want to read about some of the more "interesting" beliefs, the church wrote a bunch of essays which are surprisingly even handed. They are still from the church, so take it with a grain of salt.

https://www.lds.org/topics/essays?lang=eng&old=true

LOL, dude it's impossible to pretend that the shit in Utah politics isn't because of Mormonism. When the board controlling alcohol policy in the state is all non-drinking mormons you know they're uninformed and imposing their biases on the rest of the population.

Unfortunately it is an us vs. them issue, IT IS ONLY MORMONS who think stupid ideas like the Zion curtain make any sense, yah there are mormons who think it's silly, but still only mormons supporting it.

I have a strong policy that for normal people Utah is only good in Salt Lake, Parky City, and Moab, Utah county is cultish.

[dunfree]

BTW, Minnesota does not allow liquor sales on Sunday

As of July 2, 2017 you are incorrect.

[bigdude2468]

FYI: Chicago has nowhere near the highest per capita murder rate in the US and Utah DOES have far and away the most restrictive liquor laws. Out of touch guys your age need to unplug from the propaganda. You're enabling the political careers of the buffoons we have to deal with here in UT.

I never said UT liquor laws were not restrictive, just pointed out that other states have similar laws and also have state run liquor stores.

UT does not come close to Chicago and Illinois for corruption. Between 1972 and 2012 31 alderman were convicted of corruption. Over that time period that represents 1/3, yep 33% of the Alderman went to jail. It would have been higher but two died while waiting trial. Or how about the Governors, Otto Kerner (D), Dan Walker (D), George Ryan (R) and the latest Rod (Elvis impersonator) Blagovich (D). Lets not forget Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr and his now Ex-wife Sheila going to jail. Just so we don't feel sorry for Jesse, he draws a Fed SS disability of $130,000 much of it tax free as he claims he is Bipolar. As recently as 2013 over half of the Alderman, there are 50 took illegal campaign contributions.

If you don't think the Mob is alive and well in Chicago read Double Deal by auto mechanic Michael Corbitt who became the police chief of Willow Springs IL, a suburb of Chicago. He knew the "right guys". Unless you live it you have no idea how deep the Mob's tentacles are. Award winning Chicago Tribune Columnist John Kass calls the D's & R's in Illinois, "The Evil Cabal""

[Kenny Satch]

^^^^ corruption is everywhere whether is be the Mob or Special interest groups Religious or not.
In Utah separation or church and state is in conflict.
That's my opinion right or wrong

[phatty]

LOL, dude it's impossible to pretend that the shit in Utah politics isn't because of Mormonism. When the board controlling alcohol policy in the state is all non-drinking mormons you know they're uninformed and imposing their biases on the rest of the population.

Unfortunately it is an us vs. them issue, IT IS ONLY MORMONS who think stupid ideas like the Zion curtain make any sense, yah there are mormons who think it's silly, but still only mormons supporting it.

I have a strong policy that for normal people Utah is only good in Salt Lake, Parky City, and Moab, Utah county is cultish.

As I said, I don't know about politics there and I have no idea about whatever the Zion Curtain is (sounds stupid whatever it is).

There are plenty of reasons why I don't live in the state, even though I'm Mormon.

[straightlineorbust]

Fair fair... to be completely honest outside of politics I have no issue with Mormons

[jacob_dbu]

To throw in some funnies here, this Wasatch beer has one hell of a label.

[reckless toboggan]

To throw in some funnies here, this Wasatch beer has one hell of a label.

That rules.

[bigdude2468]

Just so folks don't think that the "crap" stopped in Chicago with the end of the Daley family rule read up about the red light cameras the city installed. Stated goal was to reduce traffic accidents. But of course it was about collecting money. The top two executives of company that was awarded the business, Redflex Traffic were both sent to jail for bribery to get the business. Also the City Purchasing Agent in charge also went to jail for accepting bribes, 10 years. However the biggest corruption was what the City did. At intersections with the cameras they shortened the yellow light time so that it was next to impossible to get through the intersection before it turned red. The city would send a photo and a citation to the vehicle owner. To top it off the City violated its own ordinance that requires a specified time for the "accused" to respond. For the red light camera violations they shortened the time to respond before assessing the fine. Of course suit was filed and the city had to refund millions of $. Now here is the worst thing about it. Drivers learned they had to stop if the light turned yellow so they slammed their brakes on causing MORE accidents at the camera intersections.

BTW, last week the city decided to allow Redflex to bid on new business. It is the "Chicago Way". Residents are so use to it they don't even react, just keep electing the same politicians over and over.

[thebirdhunter]

Cool story bro.

[neckdeep]

She said the guys are required to go on a mission for a couple of years when they reach a certain age and spread the word, two guys together and they cannot be apart. They are not allowed to watch TV or use the internet and could only call home on Mothers Day and another Holiday.

The mission requirement is more about exerting control over their young men than it is about actual proselytizing. It's not a requirement of faith so much as it's the unwelcome alternative to marrying young and making babies. Independent sexuality is discouraged. For example, at the Mormon universities, when a young man and woman become a couple, the university has a department that monitors the relationship. The young couple is assigned a minder/counselor couple of older married students or graduate students. Lots of pressure is directed at getting the couple to get married ( and rewards too. better student housing and no premarital sex police breathing down your neck). In a nutshell, the Mos don't like having horny young single men around so they give them a choice: get married or go pound on hostile doors for two years. All you have to do to get out of the mission is settle down, make babies and confirm that you are a dutiful member of the patriarchy.

This speaks to thing about Mormonism that rubs the rest of us the wrong way. To wit, it's their incessant need to control their young people. They don't trust them around booze. They don't trust them with each other. And they sure as hell don't like having non-Mormons around filling their teen's heads with ideas of independence. The mission isn't really about making new converts, it's all about ensuring the next generation remains bound to the Church.

[new yabyum]

Stupid ass fucking mormons never really affected me until now. First they locked their citizens out of 2700 miles of rivers and streams now this whole federal land grab bullshit.
Gov. Herbert, Jason Chaffetz, Rob Bishop and every mormon fuck who voted for them can go fuck themselves.

If you hunt, fish, ski. 'bile, hike or in any way enjoy the public land you have a stake in this. They want to steal your lands.

[AdironRider]

The mission requirement is a more about exerting control over their young men than it is about actual proselytizing. It's not a requirement of faith so much as it's the unwelcome alternative to marrying young and making babies. Independent sexuality is discouraged. For example, at the Mormon universities, when a young man and woman become a couple, the university has a department that monitors the relationship. The young couple is assigned a minder/counselor couple of older married students or graduate students. Lots of pressure is directed at getting the couple to get married. In a nutshell, the Mos don't like having horny young single men around so they give them a choice: get married or go pound on hostile doors for two years. All you have to do to get out of the mission is settle down, make babies and confirm that you are a dutiful member of the patriarchy.

This speaks to thing about Mormonism that rubs the rest of us the wrong way. To wit, it's their incessant need to control their young people. They don't trust them around booze. They don't trust them with each other. And they sure as hell don't like having non-Mormons around filling their teen's heads with ideas of independence.

You talk about all of this stuff like its a big surprise. You realize almost all BYU and other mormon schools populations look at this like its a good thing, the kids want this. There are worse things in the world for a bunch of 18-22 year olds to do than try and settle down.

On the Teton Valley side, having been here since 06, I think it is more a potato farmer (that happens to be Mormon) than a religious problem. The potato farmers want their money too. They also don't give a shit about school once the kid can figure out how many bushels fit in the back of the tractor, which IS a shame.

I heard a new charter school is trying to get off the ground in Driggs with some good people behind it. Support the cause.

Edit to add: the only thing about Momo's that affects me is that the hardware store is closed on Sundays. Seems like a bad business decision when most home improvement is done on the weekends, but whatever.

[neckdeep]

You talk about all of this stuff like its a big surprise. You realize almost all BYU and other mormon schools populations look at this like its a good thing, the kids want this. There are worse things in the world for a bunch of 18-22 year olds to do than try and settle down.

If they "want" it, then why is it forced upon them? If they truly wanted it, it would be a willing choice, right? BYU wouldn't need secret sex informants if everyone wanted to get married by 21. The Church wouldn't need the mission to pressure young men. They wouldn't be so insular. These poor kids are fucking terrified of losing their good standing in the Church. They fear they will be ostracized by many of the people they grew up with. If they buck too hard, they are told that they will be excommunicated and they will be cut off from their families in the afterlife, for all eternity. Some choice that is! It's actually a very psychologically manipulative and coercive way to raise a family.

On the Teton Valley side, having been here since 06, I think it is more a potato farmer (that happens to be Mormon) than a religious problem. The potato farmers want their money too. They also don't give a shit about school once the kid can figure out how many bushels fit in the back of the tractor, which IS a shame.

Ok, now that's a stereotype. There's aren't many families not named Arnold that are still growing potatoes in Teton County. There's only a handful of large potato operations and they rotate crops so that a field produces potatoes 1 in 3 years. This county mostly produces barley, animal feed and calves. Just look around...hay, alfalfa and barley for miles. Seed potatoes make up a small fraction of our Ag. Yes, the Mormons dominate Ag up here but Ag doesn't dominate our economy anymore. The total sum of our county's agricultural output is only around $35M gross revenues annually (fluctuating with commodity prices, of course). Less than 3% of county residents list their primary occupation as Ag and those are the average lowest paying jobs in the county. There are less than 300 "farms" left in the entire county and half of those owners do not rely upon the farm for primary income. Your mythical momo potato farming family is virtually extinct in Teton county.

The typical Mormon farm kid that sticks around here on a large farm isn't busting his hump and he's no retard. He runs a crew of Mexicans in an increasingly technology dominated business that is getting harder to compete in. Even as we speak, drone technology is arriving to farming. Most of our farms, however, wouldn't qualify as "large." Bottom line, there's not enough money coming in to a typical county farm to keep a big family comfortably employed and tied to the land. The average farm size in our county is only 500 acres. These families don't see enough farm revenue to make them want to raise a bunch of little potato farmers. And most of them don't grow potatoes. Potatoes are a very water intensive, high cost, high risk crop. They scrape by on some hay fields and a few hundred cows. That's why we have so many grazing leases on public lands around here. No one is getting rich off of cows. Their margins are so thin that one outbreak of winter pneumonia in their herd, they are fucked. Cow prices tanked 25-30% in 2016. A lot of them wish they'd sold out back in 2006. Very, very few are encouraging their kids to flunk out of school and become a potato farmer, that's fer sure!

[thebirdhunter]

If you hunt, fish, ski. 'bile, hike or in any way enjoy the public land you have a stake in this. They want to steal your lands.

Exactly. The POS greedy fucking Mormons in Utah want to take OUR public lands so they can profit from it. The state of Utah has done thier own study and determined it would cost them $276 million a year to manage the federal land in Utah if they were to take control. That does'nt include fighting wildfires and what ever else comes up. The only way those greedy fucks could pay for that is to sell a lot of it off and mine, log, drill, graze ,rape and destroy the rest. It's OUR public lands it's our heritage. It's not there so some fucking Mormons can profit from it.

If you want to know how Utah would manage our public lands. To start, all you have to do is look at HB622 introduced by that Mormon fuck Jason Chaffetz. That bill if passed would eliminate all BLM and Forest Service law enforcement. Leaving the door wide open for Mormon fucks like the Bundy's to do as they please. Leaving law enforcement of our public lands in the hands of the local county sheriffs who we all know are all members of the same cult.

[alias_rice]

I was deep in the hills of Kentucky a few years back and stopped at a c-store. Guy inside hears me talk and asked where I'm from, "Utah" I say. He says "you ain't one of them Mormons are you?" "No. Even worse, I'm an atheist". He just stared while I checked out and left. I think if I would have said Muslim he'd have shot me.

[jackattack]

I was deep in the hills of Kentucky a few years back and stopped at a c-store. Guy inside hears me talk and asked where I'm from, "Utah" I say. He says "you ain't one of them Mormons are you?" "No. Even worse, I'm an atheist". He just stared while I checked out and left. I think if I would have said Muslim he'd have shot me.

Was it by chance thebirdhunter?