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  1. #1
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    Experience with AT binders on wide skis

    I need to consult the wisdom on this community once again.

    Scored some 179 Bros as addition to my 188s and am considering putting a pair of Freerides or Naxos on them - I'm not a huge fan of Trekkers/Securafix. Since I'm aware that many folks here have such or a similar setup, I'd like to gain first hand experience whether the additional momentum/force of wider skis especially when put on edge cause notably more slop specifically on AT binders than on narrower waisted skis over the course of time.
    Thanks for any input.

  2. #2
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    I have freerides on a pair of Legend Pros. I've seen all the moans about slop, putting you in the backseat, raising you too high above the ski but I actually like this set-up a lot. Maybe it's because I have been skiing freerides for several years and have forgotten what proper bindings feel like! I do sometimes wonder whether something a bit stronger would be good but you'd be talking about an all metal Solly or Look/Rossi binding and you then lose the ability to tour (or tour in any comfort - can't imagine skinning for any time on LPs, metal binders and trekkers).

    Having said all this, I think the direct answer to your question is yes, there will be more slop, but it's something you will probably be able to get used to
    fur bearing, drunk, prancing eurosnob

  3. #3
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    There is more slop. I had FRs on Explosivs and Naxo 01s on Mantras. I ended up switching to Dynafits which would be my suggestion if you have compatible boots.

    The thing is, it's not too noticeable in soft snow, only on groomers and wind buffed, and crusty stuff. But if the bc gets like that, I just grab my alpine setup and go inbounds-no reason to hike for shitty turns....

  4. #4
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    I think those bindings will be perfect for a ski of the bros width, I have Freerides on a pair of 99 mm waisted skis, with a pretty minimal boot (the Scarpa Matrix) and, although you don't get the power transfer of an alpine boot/binding setup, they definitely perform well enough to get you from one powder stash to another. As long as I avoid moguls, it is a great setup. Bottom line, I need one setup for strictly resort days with crappy snow, and another setup for B/C and epic days at the resort.
    In hindsight though, wish I'd have gone with dynafits, simply for the huge decrease in weight.
    I am jealous, by the way, I need about two more months to save for my Bro's, can't wait.

  5. #5
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    I have nx01's on Explosiv's, and I have no noticible problem with torsional slop. Again, as I am on Scarpa Lasers, the power transfer doesn't react the same as an alpine boot binding setup, but ripping in AT bindings on wider skis should be no problem once you are comfortable with your setup.

  6. #6
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    have freerides on 188 bros and 190 jaks... about torsional slop, IMVHO the boots are more relevant than the bindings

  7. #7
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    Iv'e got nx21, on goats and they are a pretty bomber set up. They seem even more tortionally stiff than the nx01.
    I mostly ride bros with silvretta pure freerides and there is a lot of tortional slop
    in these bindings, after ~ 100 days this has increased. With the dins @ 12 I have not had any prereleses or istant tele trauma. This rig is light and $$$. I ride a scarpa tt and the addition of booster staps have stiffened these significantly.
    I forsee a dynafit rig in my future, but I really like this boot.
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    "I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
    I need to consult the wisdom on this community once again.
    Looking for water in the desert again, huh?

    Scored some 179 Bros as addition to my 188s and am considering putting a pair of Freerides or Naxos on them - I'm not a huge fan of Trekkers/Securafix. Since I'm aware that many folks here have such or a similar setup, I'd like to gain first hand experience whether the additional momentum/force of wider skis especially when put on edge cause notably more slop specifically on AT binders than on narrower waisted skis over the course of time.
    Thanks for any input.
    In my experience, there's a bit more slop in the Fritsches than conventional bindings. But not enough to cause me concern.

    I ski them on my 95mm waisted Stocklis and they've worked fine.

    Then again, experience varies. I think if you charge really hard or ski via force or unbalanced, there's a greater chance they may not be satisfactory for you.

    Me: 6', 180, but I suck and am slow. Ask anyone who's skied with me.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  9. #9
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    Freerides/'06 Big Daddy's. Gaper me- 6'2" 230+lbs plus a pack.
    Mounted 7mm forward of center. Cuz I'm always w/ a pack.
    Take the toe wedge out so the binder sits directly against the ski. Check screw length before reinserting.
    Couple layers of duct tape under "feet", near heel of binder, to tighten up heel lock.
    WAY less flex, more forward lean.
    Outta 7 different AT setups I've had like, Work Stinx/Pocket Rockets/Explosiv's, this is THE most alpine feeling of the bunch.
    Rippin!!
    Last edited by Schralper; 03-28-2006 at 12:11 AM.

  10. #10
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    I probably have more slop in my ankles and knees not to mention my technique then the bindings

  11. #11
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    Thanks everyone for the input so far.

    Dynafit binder is out of question for me right now since my boots fit me very well but are incompatible.

    Think I'll go either with Freerides or Naxo 21s and try to stiffen them up. There's a thread about it somewhere here (Lou Dawson?) but I couldn't find it.

  12. #12
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    I ski the 188 Bros with freerides all the time, Hicks.
    Yes, there are reports of slop and breakage, but sometimes I think I like that extra height. I ski them without holding back because they're ATs, huck them, and have basically had nothing but good rides. If the freerides do start to wear and get sloppy, I think I'll try naxos.

  13. #13
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    another data point. Naxo01's (later generation) on '05 Jaks (97mm). I haven't noticed the slop, agree with others on this post that slop is probably more of an issue with AT boots rather the binding. I use Lasers with the flexon tongue mod. I actually like the higher profile the bindings give me when I end up on stuff where I need to get on edge (harder snow, etc.) 5'8", 155lbs, so so skier.

  14. #14
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    Thanks again everyone.

    I ended up putting Naxo 21s on them since they sit closer on the topsheet front and back which should assist torsional ridigity. I'll find out how the double joint in the front will affect that.

    On a related note next years Freerides are supposed to be beefed up with an additional supportive plate as well but unfortunately that didn't help me now. Generally still prefer the Freerides for weight optimum, the 21s are simply heavy bastards.
    Last edited by Hicks; 03-30-2006 at 12:53 AM.

  15. #15
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  16. #16
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    Thanks Bossass, missed those.

    Looks to me as if they improved the front section but didn't do too well on the rear.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
    Thanks Bossass, missed those.

    Looks to me as if they improved the front section but didn't do too well on the rear.
    Huh. My impression was they did great on the rear and totally fixed the insta-tele problem. But, that's just my impression. I never had a problem with it in the first place. Well, you probably wouldn't have been able to score them until next season, anyway. I haven't tried the naxos, although I have a pair ready to be mounted, just no skis I want to drill--so I can't really say which I prefer.

    Enjoy your new rig. Get some.
    ROBOTS ARE EATING MY FACE.

  18. #18
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    Thanks Bossass, surely will.

    I just got an impression from the pics shown. But since you had them in your hand you can tell better for sure. Have fun with your Naxos too.

  19. #19
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    i have had two pair of freerides one set on crossbows and one on havocs, don't notice any slop,using adrenaline or koflack degre (don't ask) and have never gone to "insta-tele", ever. i am 5'5" 135-155 lbs, so that could be why i don't stress the binding that much.

  20. #20
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    I just ordered some of the new freerides, Hicks.
    I'll be skiing them this summer. (my season has officially started now)
    Ring me up in a month or so.

  21. #21
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    My Freeride pluses are supposed to arrive today, although I don't have skis to put them on yet. I've been skiing K2 Axis AKs with Freerides for 3 years, no problem although I have been enjoying my new Rossi B4 with Rossi Axial 120s, definitly less slop then the Freerides.

    But my 188 Stiff Bros, Dynafit Comfort, Dynafit Aero Freeride set up might end up being the ultimate "go to"/"quiver of one" set up.

  22. #22
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    188 stiff bros (2nd gen) with freerides (first gen with toe shim removed). Pushing them around with Lowa Strukas. They feel like nice soft submissive pillows. They take a while to react but they do what their told.

    on the other hand

    188 Extra stiff bros (1st gen fir core) with old 997 drivers (my race binders from my teanage years). Pushing them around with Vibramed Richlee F1 Pro concrete blocks. They react instantly and bite if you are less than forcefull.

    (me 31 5'10 165lbs)

    The freerides, soften the ski both lenghtwise and torsionally. They don't however diminish the finite amount of grip available from the edges. You just have to lean them over further to get it.

    The boots however make a much bigger difference. Stiff ones you have more instant control and your balance point dosen't have as much consequence if you have the leg strenght to compensate. Makes them much more twitchy though. The soft boots do require you ski more in balance. But you don't lose any power. You just have to be a bit more exact in where you apply force.
    Knowledge is Powder

  23. #23
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    I've been freerides for many years now, and while I won't change to Dynafits until I find a boot that I love like my Denalis that are Dynafit compatible, I do have to say that I definitely notice the flat/backseat feel on freerides, much more so on my fat skis than on my skinnier setup. I do have to fight it a good bit when I'm just getting back on the wide boards with freerides after having skied for a while on alpine setups.

    It's actually kind of annoying. I've now done the exact side-by-side "feel" comparison: I had a pair of teledaddys mounted with s914s, skied them for about 10 days at the end of last season, absolutely loved them, then put some freerides on another pair of teledaddys, and they just don't ski as well, even with the alpine boot in the freerides.

    On the other hand, it's MUCH less noticeable in pow, and since it's pretty safe to assume that pow usage increases with ski width, the net effect is probably mitigated by behavior on big skis. Big skis = more pow = matters less. So as long you're okay with adjusting a little bit to the general flat feel when you step into them after being on alpine binders, and you don't plan to ski a lot of hardpack with big skis, it really aint no thing. If this will be your only setup, I wouldn't even worry about, you'll adjust to it and forget about it pretty quickly.

    EDIT: pretty much echo the sentiment Idris just posted.
    Last edited by Yossarian; 04-28-2006 at 12:54 PM.
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  24. #24
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    Well thanks again guys for adding your experience.

    As said before I put Naxos on the short Bros and in the meantime skied them in all terrain and conditions imaginable. The binder is heavy as ass but this setup skis like any solid alpine rig - excellent edgebite, no slop notable (at least to that point after 7 days on them), turns on a dime.
    That said, I haven't tried it with AT boots yet - results pending, will post it up after it's done. Besides that I still got an additional midfat with Freerides for major AT which works very well for me.

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