United Healthcare CEO shot to death in front of NYC investor meeting

[neckdeep]

That's a good American value but you forgot that CEOs are more equal

Actually, the problem is when it comes to personhood, corporations are more equal. Humans personhood became subordinate to corporate personhood about 2 generations ago. Now, it's so disproportionate that if you want your basic human rights, you're going to have to own or control a large corporation.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Looks like they got the wrong guy. Luigi has a number of solid alibi’s.

[Buzzworthy]

The VA is a lot better now too. VA health care now consistently outperforms non-VA care in studies of overall quality ratings, and affordability for Veterans. Some of the best applied research on Covid came from the VA. They were very quick on their feet during the pandemic. Also, lots of residents do VA rotations. They play a big role in educating doctors, NPs, PAs, and nurses

Do you ever just once shut up and listen? All you do is talk out of your ass. I spent years in the VA and specifically in VINCI, where all VA research starts. I actually know the numbers you want to speak about but don’t have any real knowledge them.

You’re fucking wrong here. Like a lot of things, but you won’t fucking shut your mouth for a second to see this.

[MultiVerse]

How long ago was that?

[Buzzworthy]

I rest my case. You don’t want to listen or learn anything from someone else. You merely want to argue. Tell me you don’t have an argument lined up. Please.

[MultiVerse]

I do want to listen that's why I asked the question? And I also have real knowledge of the numbers. I've provided statistical assistance on papers studying outcomes for transplant patients

[neckdeep]

And I also have real knowledge of the numbers. I've provided statistical assistance on papers studying outcomes for transplant patients

Well, there's the problem.

Did you hear about the statistician who drowned crossing the river? It was only 4 feet deep on average....

[Tri-Ungulate]

That's because the game is always about incremental reforms. Occupy Wall Street was incredibly dumb with zero substantive policy proposals.

I never said OWS wasn’t dumb, just that our attention spans moved on pretty quickly. Just as I imagine our current Zeitgeist will pass as well.


…blah blah blah about other librul foibles snipped…

Obama's health care reform cost Dems two elections because they tried to standardize the hodgepodge mishmash of quality measurement, risk adjustments, payment models, and prior authorization rules that caused the administration cost spike in your chart.

Where do you get that assertion from? Administrative costs were rising before Obamacare, read the fucking chart again. And Obamacare was implemented largely due to the hodgepodge medical insurance mishmash underserving the American population, often due to “Denial of Coverage for Preexisting Conditions”.


Remember that phrase?


It’s been replaced by “Denial of Benefits for lack of Prior Authorization.”

High administrative costs in the US are more to blame than insurance companies. Health insurers are the low-paid low status middlemen who exist to play the bad guy in the bloated U.S. health care system.

Oh, woe is me those poor low-status middlemen CEOs raking in multimillion dollar salaries whilst streamlining their denial process with AI bots, thus fattening their meagre bottom line. Please let me bring out my tiny violin.

The real villains overcharging people, and making health care workers lives miserable with all the coding, are the hospitals themselves.

Don’t forget those usurious anesthesiologists you were harping on earlier.


…cute meme and AMA quote re: how “societal values” cause elevated administrative costs snipped…

[bennymac]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DDfGu...dmY3c0bDloNA==

[MagnificentUnicorn]

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This is why we don’t care about Brian Thompson


Sent from my iPhone using ]]]TGR Forums

[MultiVerse]

I never said OWS wasn’t dumb, just that our attention spans moved on pretty quickly. Just as I imagine our current Zeitgeist will pass as well.

Where do you get that assertion from? Administrative costs were rising before Obamacare, read the fucking chart again. And Obamacare was implemented largely due to the hodgepodge medical insurance mishmash underserving the American population, often due to “Denial of Coverage for Preexisting Conditions”.

Remember that phrase?

It’s been replaced by “Denial of Benefits for lack of Prior Authorization.”

Oh, woe is me those poor low-status middlemen CEOs raking in multimillion dollar salaries whilst streamlining their denial process with AI bots, thus fattening their meagre bottom line. Please let me bring out my tiny violin.

Don’t forget those usurious anesthesiologists you were harping on earlier.

…cute meme and AMA quote re: how “societal values” cause elevated administrative costs snipped…

- Right, we sorta agree on the first point. Although, It's not so much that society moves on as it is a performative display on the part of participants. Unlike the Civil Rights movement, for example, there's no positive policy position. Occupy Wall Street and the UHC killer et al. are hostile to any programs. They're only hyper focused on what they're against. And once the status quo says ok let's negotiate, what do you want? The movement dissipates because there was never a policy program

- And we also agree on ObamaCare. Dems tried to standardize health care standards to lower administration costs. It cost Dems elections but it bent the cost curve. That's a good thing. We don’t have the cost growth problem now that we had a couple decades ago because that has now been brought under control. But Obama got roasted because he said "if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor." That's why the game is always about incremental reforms

- Insurance companies and/or the government or some entity has to play the role of cost control. That's just reality. We don't live in a world of unlimited resources. Insurance companies are the bad guys so other people get to be the good guys

- I.e., the point about anesthesiologists is that doctors really like money. Doctors do a lot of good but they also really like money. Just like everybody else. Given that fact, what incentives do doctors have to make socially beneficial pricing decisions in a world absent of any restraints?

[frorider]

…

[summit]

…

"Insurers aren't the bad guys beause they make a 6% profit"

FUCKING BULLSHIT.

Their 6% margins are achieved by imposing at least 30% excess costs on everyone else, per that graphic. They deal in volume, so they don't need high margins to parasitically profit.

And what good is a graphic that allocates 40% of excess to the highly descriptive category of "other" and claims that nurses are paid excessively?

[frorider]

You’re misquoting. Carry on.

[summit]

You’re misquoting. Carry on.

You offer no points on how so.

[Tri-Ungulate]

Look, I will be the first to agree that there's plenty of blame to go around, not least medical providers (mea culpa). But the point of this rhetorical exercise (succinctly summarized by Luigi Mangione) is that our bloated, inefficient and ultimately inhumane healthcare system is largely driven by endstage capitalism rentseeking behavior with the medical insurance industry as a primary (albeit not sole) culprit.

fro's Economist blurb is not only vague in its citation, but as summit pointed out, that 40% can arguably be attributed to the system driven largely by our current insurance status quo. Not to mention the 15+15% directly/indirectly attributable.

[Buzzworthy]

Had my sister my United Healthcare she would have been covered over these last few months in the transplant wing in the Banner system down here in AZ.
Because she has COBRA, there is no hospital in this state that will take her.
The doctor told me in his own words 2 days ago, “well, we are in a pickle”.
We initiated hospice today.

Argue all you want to. I just loved it for 10 days.

[rideit]

[Buzzworthy]

I will never be able to work in healthcare again after these past 10 days. Seeing the care fluctuate depending on your insurance status made me want to kill somebody.

[garyfromterrace]

end of fucking thread.

[Mazderati]

A small percent of a yudge number is still a yudge number.

Also, I received a bill for an initial consult plus one follow-up visit. $1k.

[Trackhead]

"Insurers aren't the bad guys beause they make a 6% profit"

FUCKING BULLSHIT.

Their 6% margins are achieved by imposing at least 30% excess costs on everyone else, per that graphic. They deal in volume, so they don't need high margins to parasitically profit.

And what good is a graphic that allocates 40% of excess to the highly descriptive category of "other" and claims that nurses are paid excessively?

RN staffing for a few years during/after Covid was a huge expense for hospitals with the associated high dollar travel contracts. Those high dollar contracts have faded. Drug prices/inflation were also huge drivers in my hospital network of financial concern. Some of those concepts are fundamentally true today.

[Trackhead]

I will never be able to work in healthcare again after these past 10 days. Seeing the care fluctuate depending on your insurance status made me want to kill somebody.

I’ve worked at all those Banner facilities from 2001-2004. Banner Boswell ER was hands down most dangerous understaffed shithole I’ve ever stepped foot into. And ironically it was a merger of “Samaritan” and Lutheran organizations.

I never witnessed any Samaritan values.

[evasive_MT]

…

Maybe, but when I buy something from Apple, I get what I paid them for.

[Cono Este]

I realize many of you are in the industry, and relying on narcissistic doctors and dentists dollars, but if you think the medical lobbyist are not completely against anymimd of social program, and against all your hopes and dreams, pls watch this. Their lobbyists are very powerful.


https://x.com/profstonge/status/1867...114283392?s=61