'Rona back in the hizzy

[yeahman]

My company is doing a clinic this fall, but I am only doing the flu vaccine this year. Moderna #2 and booster #1 both took me out for about 36 hours. Those 2 shots were easily the sickest I have been in the past 15 years, and I have no desire to do it again.

This sums up my experience exactly. No mas.

[Trackhead]

I’d wager the vast, vast majority of middle aged athletic people suffering from long covid never even went to the ER with their covid let alone got hospitalized with it.

Pissing out your ass for 2 weeks and not being able to run 5 miles wouldn’t lead to hospitalization in an otherwise healthy person - but that’s not at all reassuring enough to say “meh covid is no big deal anymore”

Unless you have a urethrorectal fistula, pissing out your ass secondary to covid is usually self limiting.

How often are you encountering covid in your practice?

[bennymac]

Likely the same as you.

Doesn’t mean it’s not nothing. My barometer for “is this an infection I want to get” is not limited to the risk of hospitalization nor is it limited to “is it temporary or life long”

[yeahman]

Likely the same as you.

Doesn’t mean it’s not nothing. My barometer for “is this an infection I want to get” is not limited to the risk of hospitalization nor is it limited to “is it temporary or life long”

Is it limited by the fact that the vax won't prevent you from getting it?

[old goat]

I’d wager the vast, vast majority of middle aged athletic people suffering from long covid never even went to the ER with their covid let alone got hospitalized with it.

Pissing out your ass for 2 weeks and not being able to run 5 miles wouldn’t lead to hospitalization in an otherwise healthy person - but that’s not at all reassuring enough to say “meh covid is no big deal anymore”

If I hear you say "pissing out your ass" one more time I think I'm just going to scream.

Maybe Mofro can comment but it seems like if enough people get vaccinated--unlikely--there is less virus replicating in the community which means less or at least slower mutation.

[bennymac]

Is it limited by the fact that the vax won't prevent you from getting it?

Flu shots don’t limit you from contracting the flu. They still “work” though. People giving up on benefit because that benefit isn’t 100% perfect is kinda astounding. Seat belts don’t prevent 100% of injuries but they still “work”

In fact no vaccine forms a force field around your body literally preventing the virus or bacteria from entering your body. You get that right?

It all comes down to what does your immune system do when the infection occurs - I’d like my immune system as ready as possible.

I guarantee I’ve been in very close contact with more sick people with acute covid than you have. And I’ve never tested positive nor had symptoms that resemble covid infection. Yeah that’s one piece of anecdotal evidence - but it’s backed up by robust statistics.

[Trackhead]

My question is this. We have age/comorbidity related risk stratification for pneumococcal, RSV vaccine, but seemingly not the same for Covid vaccines?

We have guidelines based on age/risk for statins, we know the efficacy of DM2 meds, we deleted aspirin from primary prevention essentially , all based on evidence, or lack of.

Why is there no significant age/comorbid stratification for covid booster?

“CDC recommends that people receive all recommended COVID-19 vaccine doses. Vaccination is especially important for people at highest risk of severe COVID-19, including people ages 65 years and older; people with underlying medical conditions, including immune compromise; people living in long-term care facilities; and pregnant people to protect themselves and their infants.”

[TWINS]

Got both shots 2 weeks ago.
Soreness and a slight reaction to the shots which is usual for me.
Asked my doctor if I should get the covid shot.
He said it didn't cover the newest strain but might help with the symptoms if I catch it.
He is currently treating 50 patients at our hospital with Covid.
All the patients were either not vaccinated or never had Covid.

[old goat]

My question is this. We have age/comorbidity related risk stratification for pneumococcal, RSV vaccine, but seemingly not the same for Covid vaccines?

We have guidelines based on age/risk for statins, we know the efficacy of DM2 meds, we deleted aspirin from primary prevention essentially , all based on evidence, or lack of.

Why is there no significant age/comorbid stratification for covid booster?

“CDC recommends that people receive all recommended COVID-19 vaccine doses. Vaccination is especially important for people at highest risk of severe COVID-19, including people ages 65 years and older; people with underlying medical conditions, including immune compromise; people living in long-term care facilities; and pregnant people to protect themselves and their infants.”

For starters, covid is a new disease. As time goes on recommendations may change. CDC does recommend flu shots for everyone over 6m.
I don't know why RSV and pneumococcal vaccines aren't recommended for everyone. Regarding drugs, it's easy to understand, since the serious adverse effect rate for medications is a lot higher than for vaccines. (Yellow fever vacc is an exception; I was told not to get it because of my age.)

[riser4]

Feel slightly shitty for a day after the shot, or roll the dice that you'll piss shit out of your ass for a week and be bedridden. Sure the odds are low, but that sucks.

And as far as the whole 'wE DoNT KnOW WHat's IN iT?!?!?' crowd, I've partied with maggots before. Y'all put all kinds of shit into your bodies that are way worse than the vax. Your body is a temple, until someone passes you a tequila shot and a bong, and then you're microdosing in the parking lot of a waffle house.

Sage.

[BCMtnHound]

My sinuses have been angry with me again for the past couple weeks. If they don’t settle down, will likely visit the doc and get some nasal steroids. First week of school, daughter brings something home and both her and my wife have been down since Saturday, some kind of stomach bug it seems.

So far no one in the house has tested positive for the ‘vid. Kinda weird, but whatever. Haven’t had the flu since early 90’s in uni. Will be getting both the ‘vid and flu vax again when available, never had more than a sore shoulder from a vax so far, and hope to spend time with the parents this winter. Dad and FIL are in their 80’s now.

[bodywhomper]

Pretty decent data suggests the rates of Long Covid have fallen off a cliff with the new variants vs any variant before Omicron.

And the Novavax shot for this season was made with an older JN.1 strain, not one of the newer FLiRT's now circulating, as it's harder/slower to change up a protein vax vs an RNA based one.

….

Given the vax starts waning at 4 weeks and loses efficacy at 3 mos now, I am not lining up to get a months worth of bonus protection at this time.

Appreciating your input, as I hope all mags do.

My understanding has been that new novavax is to the recent “parent variant,” jn.1 to the current main variant and the possible XEB(?) upcoming variant. It’s not as targeted as the mRNA vaxes, “but close enough,” is what I’ve read. And the previous novavax boosters apparently were more robust and waned less(?) than the mRNA counterparts. This guy seemed to have spent a lot of time arguing that it’s good: https://x.com/daniel_e_park/status/1...Mbjk5ElmdWLRnQ

On the LC subject, what are the LC rates with current variants? I feel like things that I have seen are pointing at older data, because of the time that it takes to publish, but they seem to consistently enforce that data shows that boosters have reduced prevalence of long covid.

Difficult to remove the bias of those that are amplifying the messaging, like Marks, who is an FDA approver, and friends and family that have noticeably changed over the past few years post infection. I have a niece that was a young athlete….

[PB]

This is a valid point ^^^^
Just because you didn't end up hospitalized doesn't make it something to ignore. I get that we don't have a stats for un-hospitalized cases, but the significant number of anecdotal reports are more than enough for me, especially since one of those is me. Unless you know you will have a serious reaction (requiring hospitalization?? ), I don't accept your "not enough significant benefit".

[Mofro261]

It's not that the booster doesn't work- it does. It's just the time frame of efficacy is short, and most people aren't on board with a booster every 3-6mos perpetually, like would be needed to maintain "peak immunity".

Will you encounter the Rona in Sept-Oct, or Jan/Feb? With the limited durability, one has to choose whether to get it now or wait until end of Oct/Nov for winter coverage.
I

[frorider]

I’m definitely indoors in public spaces more in winter.

[Trackhead]

For starters, covid is a new disease. As time goes on recommendations may change. CDC does recommend flu shots for everyone over 6m.
I don't know why RSV and pneumococcal vaccines aren't recommended for everyone. Regarding drugs, it's easy to understand, since the serious adverse effect rate for medications is a lot higher than for vaccines. (Yellow fever vacc is an exception; I was told not to get it because of my age.)

I understand that and agree, but the mantra really doesn’t match with disease burden even remotely at this point. It did until the time Delta faded and Omicron came around. Since then it’s been a burden of only those cohorts that match pneumococcal criteria.

It seems like dogma stuck in 2020/2021.

[mcski]

Anecdotally but one of my ex’s now has long covid from her latest bout with. the Vid. Lung issues and elevated resting heart rate. Kind of worrying actually despite what data may be showing

[old goat]

It's not that the booster doesn't work- it does. It's just the time frame of efficacy is short, and most people aren't on board with a booster every 3-6mos perpetually, like would be needed to maintain "peak immunity".

Will you encounter the Rona in Sept-Oct, or Jan/Feb? With the limited durability, one has to choose whether to get it now or wait until end of Oct/Nov for winter coverage.
I

Maybe the thing is to a shot a few weeks before a big trip, where you're likely to be exposed to a lot more people in close quarters and where getting sick would be a big problem. Anyone want to do a 10 hour flight wearing an N95?

[riser4]

I got Flu and Pneumonia shots at my physical on Monday. Doc said I needed to go to a pharmacy for the COVID-19 booster.

[yeahman]

Maybe the thing is to a shot a few weeks before a big trip, where you're likely to be exposed to a lot more people in close quarters and where getting sick would be a big problem. Anyone want to do a 10 hour flight wearing an N95?

Sure. I always bring one just in case I end up sitting near somebody who is coughing/sneezing/obviously sick. Always the good masks by 3M like I used to wear painting for dust and spray mist. I grew accustomed to eight hours in a mask and don't mind it a bit if I think it's doing me some good.

[leroy jenkins]

My question is this. We have age/comorbidity related risk stratification for pneumococcal, RSV vaccine, but seemingly not the same for Covid vaccines?

We have guidelines based on age/risk for statins, we know the efficacy of DM2 meds, we deleted aspirin from primary prevention essentially , all based on evidence, or lack of.

Why is there no significant age/comorbid stratification for covid booster?

“CDC recommends that people receive all recommended COVID-19 vaccine doses. Vaccination is especially important for people at highest risk of severe COVID-19, including people ages 65 years and older; people with underlying medical conditions, including immune compromise; people living in long-term care facilities; and pregnant people to protect themselves and their infants.”

The data collection is permanently fucked regarding the vax and covid because they lumped recently vaxed in with unvaxed, so covid positivity within a couple weeks of the vax is used as evidence of vax efficacy vs unvaxed, and the sadly, the same distortion affects the vax side effects within the first couple weeks of being vax.

They can study stuff now, but since that data is corrupted, there is a pretty hard limit on what those studies can look at, considering it's now just about impossible to find enough people who have never been exposed to either the vax or covid to study.

[leroy jenkins]

Sage.

He said a tequila shot and a bong are way worse than possible vax side effects? This is empirically objectively false, not sage at all. Odd choice, doesnt' thc and cbd have a protective effect against covid anyways?

[leroy jenkins]

It's not that the booster doesn't work- it does. It's just the time frame of efficacy is short, and most people aren't on board with a booster every 3-6mos perpetually, like would be needed to maintain "peak immunity".

Will you encounter the Rona in Sept-Oct, or Jan/Feb? With the limited durability, one has to choose whether to get it now or wait until end of Oct/Nov for winter coverage.
I

There is also some evidence that the immunity drop when efficacy wanes, can drop lower than you would be if you had never taken the vax, albeit temporarily.

[Danno]

Maybe the thing is to a shot a few weeks before a big trip, where you're likely to be exposed to a lot more people in close quarters and where getting sick would be a big problem. Anyone want to do a 10 hour flight wearing an N95?

I'm going to Paris in 6 weeks, so used that logic and am getting the shot in a couple of weeks.

[Not DJSapp]

He said a tequila shot and a bong are way worse than possible vax side effects? This is empirically objectively false, not sage at all. Odd choice, doesnt' thc and cbd have a protective effect against covid anyways?

No, it's the whole of partying with maggots. It starts with a shot and a bong, I implied it goes through some really blurry times when you're taking god knows what, and the night/morning ends with microdosing at waffle house.

Last I checked, the side effects of acid and waffle house are far worse than the vax.