2024 Tour de France Fantasy League, and general TdF discussions.

[::: :::]

Where’d that calc come from?
NM, found Lanterne Rouge article

[smmokan]

6.9w/kg?!! Unreal

Ugh... that's Lance-on-EPO power. It's funny, I just listened to a podcast (Peter Attia with Tadej's coach) where they made a point of saying today's riders aren't putting out near the power of the 90's and early 2000's drugged-up TDF racers. I guess they are now.

[xyz]

Pog beat lances time up Plateau de Beille by 7 mins, Patiniis all time 1998 record by 4 mins. So did Jonas.

Aliens.





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[goldenboy]

I sure hope they're aliens with the very best modern training, nutrition, etc, and not just on the most modern and undetectable doping program. (I do think they're clean, I'm just saying it would suck to learn otherwise in 10 years)

[Thesystemsplit]

I sure hope they're aliens with the very best modern training, nutrition, etc, and not just on the most modern and undetectable doping program. (I do think they're clean, I'm just saying it would suck to learn otherwise in 10 years)

IMO-def not clean, and it will eventually come out

[xyz]

It’s just so not normal. They absolutely smashed those records. Hard to believe they are squeaky clean. Too much money involved to be zero fuckery.

Probably on some kind of crank that hasn’t been banned yet.

Tadej and Jonas seem to be so genuine tho. The teams are also grinding out the marginal gains especially on the nutrition side. The carbs per hour has gone way up in recent years. The aero gains are huge too now. Lance had flapping jerseys.

Or maybe they are once in 100 year freaks.


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[huckbucket]

Motors ... in wheels .... from former soviet countries. Crazy expensive, but probably no longer vaporware.

This podcast is hit or miss, but episode 6 was pretty darn interesting:

https://open.spotify.com/show/5m2ykF...b78863d36040eb

[Dantheman]

Ugh... that's Lance-on-EPO power. It's funny, I just listened to a podcast (Peter Attia with Tadej's coach) where they made a point of saying today's riders aren't putting out near the power of the 90's and early 2000's drugged-up TDF racers. I guess they are now.

To be fair:

1. They also said that some of the calcs people run to estimate their power are often way off from the actual data (which they do not make public).

2. Inigo said that some of Tadej's base physiological parameters are serious outliers even by the standards of top-tier elites.

3. Training, nutrition, and aero have come a long ways in the last 20 years. Even on climbs like this they're going fast enough for aero gains to matter.


That all said, destroying records set during the peak doping era is hard to overlook.

[jackattack]

Breaking records is inevitable. What Cav accomplished in this tour was unprecedented and unexpected, but it happened. I think it's safe to say that cyclists in the EPO era lived, fueled, recovered, etc very differently than the kids these days. Pogi is 25 and has 14 tdf stages, it seems that he has the legs to take any mountain finish he wants, does he have 12 more stage wins in him before he's through?

That said, I would be crushed if it came out that the only gains the sport has made is that they've learned how to cheat better.

[huckbucket]

That said, I would be crushed if it came out that the only gains the sport has made is that they've learned how to cheat better.

If it never comes out, I'm inclined to explain it as though he simply never got caught.

[xyz]

To be fair:


That all said, destroying records set during the peak doping era is hard to overlook.

Tadej, Jonas and Remco all smashed Pantini’s record. It’s kinda like 3 100 metre sprinters running a sub 9.3 sec time in one race.

But Tadej said today the professionalism in the sport today is amateur level compared to when he started pro 6 years ago. Specifically mentioning nutrition. Focussed altitude training is new in the last 5-10 years. Tons of aero and bike tech gains as well.

But still…putting almost 4 mins into Pantani…


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[Skistack]

Also Pantani’s bike probably weighed 6 pounds more than the UCI limit. That matters when you’re going uphill at ludicrous speed.


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[Mofro261]

I saw a pretty good article a few mos ago on a hyper focus on core body temp and thermoregulation causing big improvements for cycling in terms of increased maintainence of power output (claim was 5% power loss per 1 deg increased core body temp), an area that wasn't on most radars ~10 yrs ago. Most or all on the tour using them now. Tadej said it himself- his ability to stay cool kept all day kept him fresh for that insane push.

(Mikel Landa also inside 4 mins.)

[xyz]

I saw a pretty good article a few mos ago on a hyper focus on core body temp and thermoregulation causing big improvements for cycling in terms of increased maintainence of power output (claim was 5% power loss per 1 deg increased core body temp), an area that wasn't on most radars ~10 yrs ago. Most or all on the tour using them now. Tadej said it himself- his ability to stay cool kept all day kept him fresh for that insane push.

(Mikel Landa also inside 4 mins.)

Keeping cool is key but pantani was bald with no helmet. That’s gotta be hella watts of cooling And less hair grams.

Yes. Lots of others close to the record and likely equal to lance. Maybe all these marginal gains have really added up, raising the boat for all.




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[huckbucket]

Vingo said the wattage estimates are accurate.

https://sport.tv2.dk/cykling/2024-07...ligere-har-set

[TBS]

Chris Horner interviews the team doc from Astana about gains in nutrition for TdF athletes

[Tailwind]

Maybe I’m crazy here… but this wasn’t just a time trial up a climb.

The week prior matters a lot. Effort. Nutrition. Recovery etc.

The effort you put in on the miles leading up to the climb matters. Team tactics matter. Also… I’d be kinda shocked if there wasn’t a 5-10% gain with a modern bike. Maybe that keeps your heart rate a bit lower leading up to the big effort.

Point being - your state as you roll into the bottom of the climb has a lot of variables.

I absolutely agree that it’s silly fast and I tend to be a skeptic but there is more than just watts and minutes.

[Dantheman]

I saw a pretty good article a few mos ago on a hyper focus on core body temp and thermoregulation causing big improvements for cycling in terms of increased maintainence of power output (claim was 5% power loss per 1 deg increased core body temp), an area that wasn't on most radars ~10 yrs ago. Most or all on the tour using them now. Tadej said it himself- his ability to stay cool kept all day kept him fresh for that insane push.

(Mikel Landa also inside 4 mins.)

This is a really good point. Surely these guys are all very familiar with the work that has come out of Craig Heller's lab.

[::: :::]

what happened to Girmay?!?

[dan_pdx]

what happened to Girmay?!?

Seems the fight for the green jersey is getting interesting. Does anyone know how many intermediate sprints are left? Are we going to see the sprinters in the breakaway?

Haven't seen Girmay's crash yet, hope he's not badly hurt

[grskier]

I sure hope they're aliens with the very best modern training, nutrition, etc, and not just on the most modern and undetectable doping program. (I do think they're clean, I'm just saying it would suck to learn otherwise in 10 years)

This si my take as well. I just got back into the tour after avoiding caring for a few years. I'll probably need to come to terms with things like I did during the 90s home run chase where I chalked it up to just being entertaining.

[xyz]

Seems the fight for the green jersey is getting interesting. Does anyone know how many intermediate sprints are left? Are we going to see the sprinters in the breakaway?

Haven't seen Girmay's crash yet, hope he's not badly hurt

He crashed first on roundabout inside. Touched with an EF rider. Into railings. He rode in tho. Gap on points is 36 to jasper.


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[plugboots]

I was just ranting about too many curves and roundabouts near the finish…

[jackattack]

Did anyone else hear Bobke's "what the hell do you think you're doing, the fuck?" Hot mic, Bob!

Later he apologized and said someone was trying to get into the commentary booth.

[TBS]

Seems the fight for the green jersey is getting interesting. Does anyone know how many intermediate sprints are left? Are we going to see the sprinters in the breakaway?

Haven't seen Girmay's crash yet, hope he's not badly hurt

Each of the next four stages have intermediate sprints with 20/17/15/13/11/10/9/8/7/6/5/4/3/2/1 points on offer.
Philipsen is 32 points down

Has he even competed for an intermediate sprint this year?