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  1. #1
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    Pai In the Sky, Help us turn this dream into a reality.

    CRATA (Colorado River Area Trails Alliance) is currently working on developing a new shuttle drop in Kingman, Arizona. I've spent the last year with my buddy Katz doing a feasibility study along the conceptual alignment that starts at nearly 8000 feet in elevation above the Mojave Desert in the Hualapai Mountains and drops 5000 vertical feet back into the historic downtown district of Kingman. It's absolutely spectacular and will have something for everyone as it descends through 7 different ecosystems with varying terrain and geology. I have no doubt that this ride will become one of the best rides in North America.

    As some of you know I've been working in Kingman a lot over the past four years helping develop their Whitecliffs Trail System. This urban interface system is completely surrounded by the city of Kingman and is basically a city conservation park. The terrain is very technical but has a little bit of everything including mesa top slick rock, punchy tech trails, flowing single tracks, small jump lines and steep down hill trail segments. There are two other trail systems that link into the downtown area that will be going through a process of reimagined planning and design. We are actually starting with the Beale City and Parks system this year to make better connectivity and user experiences for mountain bikers. We are also still continuing improvements on the Whitecliffs Trail System while designing the PAI Drop and another new trail system on the south side of town in the Slaughterhouse Canyon area. All of these systems and the shuttle drop will be accessible from the historic down town area by bicycle, once in town there will be no need for using your personal vehicle. The four trail systems and the shuttle run will compliment one another for the ultimate riding experience.

    Our goal is to have the shuttle drop and other projects completed within the next five years but we need your help. We have created a Go Fund Me account with a goal of 50k, 25k for design and 25k for the required NEPA studies. Once we accomplish these goals we will be looking at grant opportunities etc. for construction.

    My family and I will be moving to Kingman sometime this coming year with these goals as well as developing a shuttle business with a wine and beer bar eventually. I've fallen in love with he area and the potential I'm seeing is incredible. The terrain and features are the stuff of a mountain bikers dream world and the shuttle drop will establish Kingman as a world class destination. It's all of this and within an hour and a half drive from 3-4 million people and 3 hour drive from 9 million people. It will also tie in well while road tripping to other. destinations such as Sedona, Las Vegas and Southwest Utah. This project will not only create awesome trails to ride on but it will transform the economic landscape of Kingman's historic downtown area and develop sustainable businesses for local residents.

    Go here to make a donation-
    https://www.gofundme.com/f/pai-in-th...ource=customer

    I've also just opened up a profile account on Instagram to promote trail development and riding opportunities in Kingman, please give it a follow-
    https://www.instagram.com/kingman_mtb/?hl=en

    And you can also see what I've been up to the last few years in Kingman on my personal account here-
    https://www.instagram.com/raisingarizona13/?hl=en

    Thanks so much everyone!
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  2. #2
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    Sounds awesome! But learn from the Palisade Plunge folks and beware of calling it Pai Drop. The punters will lose their shit if you mislead them by having ANY climbing on the route. lol

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by evdog View Post
    Sounds awesome! But learn from the Palisade Plunge folks and beware of calling it Pai Drop. The punters will lose their shit if you mislead them by having ANY climbing on the route. lol
    Good call. It will have some ups and flattish xc sections. It's hard to make a dh run over 5000 vertical feet through Arizonas rugged mountains. Still, we are focussing on a design that won't destroy people either.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  4. #4
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    Sick! What do you think the season looks like? Is the top of the drop snowed in all winter, or just big winters?


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  5. #5
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    Nice work! What's the ebike situation there? Seeing lots of "unknown" on mtbproject.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by joetron View Post
    Sick! What do you think the season looks like? Is the top of the drop snowed in all winter, or just big winters?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    It does get snowed in on but some years that doesn't last very long. It was dry up there this year until around Christmas. We are proposing a mid way drop in point where you could ride uphill to do 65-75% of the run and access a proposed black diamond section separate from the regular route that has a bunch of sick steep slab features. After the initial 1000-1400 vertical up top the ride is south facing so it dries out quickly. the lower starting point from there down would have some fun descending but the lower third or quarter is a bit more xc with some really fun black diamond options to finish the ride up with. Of course, this all speculation for now until we get this first phase completed with design and NEPA studies. You can also do an out and back. Maybe not the whole thing but as much as you like.

    You could ride this in the summer as well but I'd probably do it in the late afternoon and be dropping into the lower elevations as it begins to cool down.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP IN7RO View Post
    Nice work! What's the ebike situation there? Seeing lots of "unknown" on mtbproject.
    The PAI starts in a county park and I actually don't know what their stance is on e-bikes but I think it's ok. The rest is BLM and city property, they both allow class 1 bikes. The WC's is also open to class 1 bikes.
    Last edited by raisingarizona13; 02-07-2024 at 07:09 PM.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona13 View Post
    It does get snowed in on but some years that doesn't last very long. It was dry up there this year until around Christmas. We are proposing a mid way drop in point where you could ride uphill to do 65-75% of the run and access a proposed black diamond section separate from the regular route that has a bunch of sick steep slab features. After the initial 1000-1400 vertical up top the ride is south facing so it dries out quickly. the lower starting point from there down would have some fun descending but the lower third or quarter is a bit more xc with some really fun black diamond options to finish the ride up with. Of course, this all speculation for now until we get this first phase completed with design and NEPA studies. You can also do an out and back. Maybe not the whole thing but as much as you like.

    You could ride this in the summer as well but I'd probably do it in the late afternoon and be dropping into the lower elevations as it begins to cool down.
    Rad. If you get a flier or graphic going send it to me Joe AT Durangocyclery DOT com and I’ll put it up on our IG to try and help get some funds flowing.
    Does the city, county or local tourism bureau have any $$ they could put towards NEPA?


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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by joetron View Post
    Rad. If you get a flier or graphic going send it to me Joe AT Durangocyclery DOT com and I’ll put it up on our IG to try and help get some funds flowing.
    Does the city, county or local tourism bureau have any $$ they could put towards NEPA?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Thanks. CRATA is working on a media package and presentation which will represented to the city and tourism bureau. We figured for now this was the easiest way to get it out there. We only need 250 people to donate 100 bucks each to begin and complete the design work. That's gotta be completed first before we can go forward with the NEPA studies. I'm hoping to get the design down by next December.
    Last edited by raisingarizona13; 02-07-2024 at 07:08 PM.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  10. #10
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    Just dropping to say HELL YEAH, RA! Great work. Keep us informed.


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    sproing!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    Just dropping to say HELL YEAH, RA! Great work. Keep us informed.


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    Thanks meter-man! I will for sure.

    Please make a donation mags, this will change everything for the downtown businesses in Kingman and I guarantee it will be one of the top ten best rides in the country. If and when I can get a shuttle business going (this is a good few years away) I'll definitely shuttle mags for a killer discount and pour beers at our bar

    I should add, we have already had meetings with the city parks and rec, the county parks and BLM and the word is, if we get the design done and NEPA paid for (there could be adjustments needed after NEPA of course) it will be a sure thing GO.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona13 View Post
    Thanks meter-man! I will for sure.

    Please make a donation mags, this will change everything for the downtown businesses in Kingman and I guarantee it will be one of the top ten best rides in the country. If and when I can get a shuttle business going (this is a good few years away) I'll definitely shuttle mags for a killer discount and pour beers at our bar

    I should add, we have already had meetings with the city parks and rec, the county parks and BLM and the word is, if we get the design done and NEPA paid for (there could be adjustments needed after NEPA of course) it will be a sure thing GO.
    Thank Dog you have BLM and not USFS! BLM has way more progressive trail standards. Good luck.
    sproing!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona13 View Post
    Good call. It will have some ups and flattish xc sections. It's hard to make a dh run over 5000 vertical feet through Arizonas rugged mountains. Still, we are focussing on a design that won't destroy people either.
    Awesome, except for that last part. It needs to hurt a bit if you want to make it epic. Funds sent though. By accepting you agree to include enough climbing to make the haters whine and the e-bikers batteries run dry.

    Anyone who disagrees with this needs to beat my $100 donation.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by evdog View Post
    Awesome, except for that last part. It needs to hurt a bit if you want to make it epic. Funds sent though. By accepting you agree to include enough climbing to make the haters whine and the e-bikers batteries run dry.

    Anyone who disagrees with this needs to beat my $100 donation.
    Haha! It's going to still hurt a little, at least for guys like me, probably not you though .

    I think a goal for it is that it doesn't whoop on people like the Palisades or even TWE. I'd like people to get done with it, roll back into our shop and sit down for a couple of beers with big, shit wearing grins on their faces instead of that total beat down look where you know they may be glad they did it but they may not ever do it again. I'd like them to get done and ask if they can sign up for another lap the following day. Killing people probably isn't a great business model!

    Besides, a guy like yourself will be doing this as an out and back!
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  15. #15
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    RA, is the shuttle planned for Hualapia or over off the Cerbats?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thesystemsplit View Post
    RA, is the shuttle planned for Hualapia or over off the Cerbats?
    The proposed alignment would start in the Hualapai Mountain Park just under 8k in elevation. Follow kingman_mtb on instagram. I'll be updating that page with photos and information on all trail projects in Kingman but it's main focus is for the Pai run.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona13 View Post
    Besides, a guy like yourself will be doing this as an out and back!
    Don't bet on it! I can do lots of climbing when it's part of a point to point route or loop. But something like this I'll be on the shuttle along with everyone else. Unless you guys build a climbing trail at some point. If you make this whole shuttle climbable I'll be disappointed. It had better have enough drops and steeps to keep the mopeds from climbing it.

  18. #18
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    subscribing.
    "If we can't bring the mountain to the party, let's bring the PARTY to the MOUNTAIN!"

  19. #19
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    Threw in little bit. Stoked you seem to have found your happy place, hope it all works out. It would be rad to get in on the ground floor and help build up a place into something cool.

  20. #20
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    Slight thread drift about Kingman. Is it sketchy around there? I just looked up some info and this stood out.

    "With a crime rate of 35 per one thousand residents, Kingman has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities. One's chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime here is one in 28. Within Arizona, more than 90% of the communities have a lower crime rate than Kingman.

  21. #21
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    Well, I went thru there last month and rode, I didn't think it was sketchy, just a rural blue collar area in the vain of Butte,Mt. , etc.
    People at the TH and on the trail were friendly.
    RA13 said the downtown area was nice. They were building some new hotels and restaurants and stuff.
    Last edited by sfotex; 04-21-2024 at 08:11 PM.
    When life gives you haters, make haterade.

  22. #22
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    Thanks for the info. Those stats are from a site called neighborhoodscout. It appears property crime skews the numbers quite a bit.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP IN7RO View Post
    Slight thread drift about Kingman. Is it sketchy around there? I just looked up some info and this stood out.

    "With a crime rate of 35 per one thousand residents, Kingman has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities. One's chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime here is one in 28. Within Arizona, more than 90% of the communities have a lower crime rate than Kingman.
    Oh it's fucking sketchy alright. The Golden Valley was the states leader in meth production years ago, I'm not sure where it stands today but I'm pretty sure the industry is still alive and well in the area. There's definitely some very young adults and high school kids that seem to believe they are gangsters. Those young adults with underdeveloped frontal lobes coming from a rough upbringing can be downright dangerous. Mojave County is also the most poorly educated county in the state and as you may already know Arizona doesn't score highly in education as a whole. I don't leave my bike locked up hanging on the rack without being able to keep an eye on it unless I'm right in down town during the day. The dive bar in the down town is really cool imo but it's definitely the kind of place you can get your ass kicked if you go running your mouth off to the wrong people on a busy late night.

    The vibe is real and gritty. It ain't no fluffy fucking ski town and I love that. The main exits off the 40 are basically truck stops with all the nasty shit that often comes with that but once you get away from those spots and get into the historic downtown district it's freaking killer. The Black Bridge Brewery is awesome and the frequent flyers there are damn good people. Unfortunately the downtown is kind of off to the side and missed by most. The town is rich in history (a lot of DARK wild western history) and has a lot of historic buildings with very cool architecture. It has the eerie ghost town vibe which I'm a big fan of. There's a few very good restaurants and a bunch of funky local shops as well. It's a diamond in the rough, kind of like a Moab 40 years ago. Once you get out in the surrounding Mojave though you can see the places potential for mountain biking. The terrain is insane and the big views are expansive and beautiful. If we can get the BLM on board with our conceptual trails plan they could have something unlike anything in the state.

    If you like discovering places before they are discovered the way I do I bet you'd have fun hanging out but it takes a minute to figure it out or you should have someone that gets it to show you around. Hanging out downtown in the winter is like a breathe of fresh air after being in busy places like Sedona. It's so peaceful and chill and that's something I really appreciate.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  24. #24
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    Here's a link to a vid taken yesterday at the Annual Chillin on the Trail fundraiser event. This is a feature we built this past winter on a new trail called Happy Place in the White Cliffs Trail System. This system is a city park that's completely surrounded by Kingman and connects directly into the downtown. It's like a desert mountain biking version of Telluride but probably like the first few years the ski area opened and the town was still a ghost town but had a small but extremely steep and rough ski area still in it's infancy. We aren't just building trails there, we are developing a riding community. It's cool to see how so many people riding stuff like this. Most of the local riders hadn't really been exposed to this kind of riding before but they seem to be picking it up rather quickly

    https://www.facebook.com/reel/843149624550857
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona13 View Post
    Oh it's fucking sketchy alright. The Golden Valley was the states leader in meth production years ago, I'm not sure where it stands today but I'm pretty sure the industry is still alive and well in the area. There's definitely some very young adults and high school kids that seem to believe they are gangsters. Those young adults with underdeveloped frontal lobes coming from a rough upbringing can be downright dangerous. Mojave County is also the most poorly educated county in the state and as you may already know Arizona doesn't score highly in education as a whole. I don't leave my bike locked up hanging on the rack without being able to keep an eye on it unless I'm right in down town during the day. The dive bar in the down town is really cool imo but it's definitely the kind of place you can get your ass kicked if you go running your mouth off to the wrong people on a busy late night.

    The vibe is real and gritty. It ain't no fluffy fucking ski town and I love that. The main exits off the 40 are basically truck stops with all the nasty shit that often comes with that but once you get away from those spots and get into the historic downtown district it's freaking killer. The Black Bridge Brewery is awesome and the frequent flyers there are damn good people. Unfortunately the downtown is kind of off to the side and missed by most. The town is rich in history (a lot of DARK wild western history) and has a lot of historic buildings with very cool architecture. It has the eerie ghost town vibe which I'm a big fan of. There's a few very good restaurants and a bunch of funky local shops as well. It's a diamond in the rough, kind of like a Moab 40 years ago. Once you get out in the surrounding Mojave though you can see the places potential for mountain biking. The terrain is insane and the big views are expansive and beautiful. If we can get the BLM on board with our conceptual trails plan they could have something unlike anything in the state.

    If you like discovering places before they are discovered the way I do I bet you'd have fun hanging out but it takes a minute to figure it out or you should have someone that gets it to show you around. Hanging out downtown in the winter is like a breathe of fresh air after being in busy places like Sedona. It's so peaceful and chill and that's something I really appreciate.
    Thanks for the write-up!

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