Grass is Greener Advice

[Dantheman]

I have an offer on the table for a new position. More responsibility, longer commute (but not terrible). Salary is a 50% increase over what I currently make, and likely will be 100+% within a few years. Pretty much life changing money. Anyone faced a similar decision?

[SkiBall]

Mo money, mo problems.
So how life changing is the money? Write the pros and cons on a piece of paper, cuz life is a balance beam.

[Core Shot]

I’ve been thinking of planting a clover lawn.
Nitrogen fixing. No Fert required

As for work. Ugggh. Double the money is double the expectation.
If you’re young, grab the brass ring. Knowing you’re being played. Play them. Do a few years and cash out.
I’ve sold out before. But it has to be strategic.

[phatty]

I have an offer on the table for a new position. More responsibility, longer commute (but not terrible). Salary is a 50% increase over what I currently make, and likely will be 100+% within a few years. Pretty much life changing money. Anyone faced a similar decision?

Any equity involved (sorry, don't know your field)? That type of potential upside can help make the decision. Also, what will the lifestyle impact be? Working way more hours? Seems like the upside is pretty solid.

[m2711c]

how happy are you with yer current situation? did you seek this new opportunity or is this coming from a headhunter?

[jackstraw]

That's a tough one. Your kids are still young, correct? I put my kids ahead of me and lived and worked for a long time because it was best for them. They're now grown in their mid 20's and my outlook is completely different. I'm actually quitting my job tomorrow because it's annoying and I drive too much. My next job will surely pay less, but I'll commute on a bike. It took a long time to get here though.

[Buster Highmen]

I have an offer on the table for a new position. More responsibility, longer commute (but not terrible). Salary is a 50% increase over what I currently make, and likely will be 100+% within a few years. Pretty much life changing money. Anyone faced a similar decision?

Yup.
Old employer wanted me back.
I didn't want to go back, so negotiations ensued.
I got a sweet deal, with 8 weeks of vacation a year and shitload of stock. I worked there another 11 years, initially fun, then not so fun.

The vacation time was critical since my kids were under 10 when I went back and I wanted to spend time with them. Which I did.

If I have any suggestions, it's to see if you can leverage a bunch of vacation time. Money helps a lot, but there's nothing like time.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

You can always make more money but you can’t get more time


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[Dantheman]

Any equity involved (sorry, don't know your field)? That type of potential upside can help make the decision. Also, what will the lifestyle impact be? Working way more hours? Seems like the upside is pretty solid.

No equity immediately, but the position is a fast track to being a shareholder. I don't want to get too detailed for obvious reasons, but I currently work for a national A/E/C firm with 5,000 employees. The position is at another A/E/C firm that is about 1/3 the size but has an excellent reputation.

It would certainly be more hours, though exactly how many more is hard to say yet. Currently I work 40-44 hrs/wk most weeks and right now I'm guessing that at a minimum that ceiling will become a floor. I bike commute most days and that will no longer be feasible. However, my house and the new office location are both close to light rail stops (5 min drive and 5 min walk, respectively) so I could avoid the stress of driving, and potentially I could still ride to an intermediate stop then hop on the train to get some pedaling in.

how happy are you with yer current situation? did you seek this new opportunity or is this coming from a headhunter?

Headhunter. Pretty happy currently. I've managed to make myself a pretty invaluable member of my current team and if the economy really tanked I'm way down the list of people who would get laid off. That said, I've only been here two years so I'm not walking away from lots of seniority.

That's a tough one. Your kids are still young, correct? I put my kids ahead of me and lived and worked for a long time because it was best for them. They're now grown in their mid 20's and my outlook is completely different. I'm actually quitting my job tomorrow because it's annoying and I drive too much. My next job will surely pay less, but I'll commute on a bike. It took a long time to get here though.

My kid just turned 14. It's a bit different than having really young kids, but he's heading into a critical time in his life that I want to be sure I'm there for.

Yup.
Old employer wanted me back.
I didn't want to go back, so negotiations ensued.
I got a sweet deal, with 8 weeks of vacation a year and shitload of stock. I worked there another 11 years, initially fun, then not so fun.

The vacation time was critical since my kids were under 10 when I went back and I wanted to spend time with them. Which I did.

If I have any suggestions, it's to see if you can leverage a bunch of vacation time. Money helps a lot, but there's nothing like time.

I won't accept less PTO than I get now (4 wks/yr), but the reality of the industry and the position is that I won't get more than that. However, the amount of money on the table could potentially mean retiring years earlier than I had planned.

[soul_skier]

There is something to be said for taking the new job and continuing to live the lifestyle that your old job funded. Given the time value of money, banking the delta between the respective comp plans has a strong appeal.

Would you be burning bridges with your current company if you left for this new opportunity?

[altachic]

As the other half of DTM who's just reading to see what you all say, I'm surprised no one has been mentioning much about possible earlier retirement with more pay. In my eyes, this would enable that even a bit earlier if all goes well.
DTM is VERY good at being active so the bike commuting thing would suck not to do everyday, but he finds many other ways to stay extremely fit. I know that part of his lifestyle wouldn't go by the wayside. I'm just hoping this won't involve him working a lot of extra hours...it doesn't sound like it at the moment.
Do any of you have experience with retiring early, sooner, are you on that track or the like? Is the more money pro of this worth it?? Seems enticing.

[North]

It sounds like your lifestyle won't be diminished significantly and the upgrade potential is significant. Unless I'm missing something, I'm not hearing compelling reasons not to take it.

More clarity around the extra hours piece would be helpful since that seems like the primary concern. "More responsibility" can mean a lot of things. Are you expecting more hours because the projects are bigger, more tasks on your plate, less support & fewer resources, or something else?

[Dantheman]

Would you be burning bridges with your current company if you left for this new opportunity?

My boss would be crushed if I left, but I think she'd understand. I wasn't actively seeking this out and I know 100% that they can't come close to matching the offer. I'd probably be leapfrogging her salary by a significant amount.

It sounds like your lifestyle won't be diminished significantly and the upgrade potential is significant. Unless I'm missing something, I'm not hearing compelling reasons not to take it.

More clarity around the extra hours piece would be helpful since that seems like the primary concern. "More responsibility" can mean a lot of things. Are you expecting more hours because the projects are bigger, more tasks on your plate, less support & fewer resources, or something else?

This company has gradually been doing more and more work here via one of their offices in an adjoining state and has decided to officially expand into this market and open an office. I'd go from being a mid-level manager to head honcho and be building my department from the ground up (with support from the company at large), which is certainly not something I've ever done. Lot's of hiring, marketing, and business/client development relative to my current position. I already do all of that to various degrees, but not as core job duties and not as top dawg.

[phatty]

My boss would be crushed if I left, but I think she'd understand. I wasn't actively seeking this out and I know 100% that they can't come close to matching the offer. I'd probably be leapfrogging her salary by a significant amount.



This company has gradually been doing more and more work here via one of their offices in an adjoining state and has decided to officially expand into this market and open an office. I'd go from being a mid-level manager to head honcho and be building my department from the ground up (with support from the company at large), which is certainly not something I've ever done. Lot's of hiring, marketing, and business/client development relative to my current position. I already do all of that to various degrees, but not as core job duties and not as top dawg.

All of it depends on what you want in the end. Would you like to be stretched by the new work? Or do you want to keep doing what you are doing (nothing wrong with that)? Would you be able to leverage the offer to get more from your current company?

I had something similar a few years ago. I was recruited to lead a team where I had previously not been leading the full global team. Big step up in pay and responsibility. It was a non public start up so got a decent chunk of options. I enjoyed the extra challenge and did well. Leveraged that into another, similar position. Lifestyle has stayed pretty similar, though morning runs are tougher with early meetings with my EMEA employees. I figure I have one more jump to build up my nut to retire (goal is by 55).

Based on what you are saying, it seems like you want to do it and it will accelerate your end goal. Sounds like a great opportunity! Good luck with the decision!

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[LeeLau]

As the other half of DTM who's just reading to see what you all say, I'm surprised no one has been mentioning much about possible earlier retirement with more pay. In my eyes, this would enable that even a bit earlier if all goes well.
DTM is VERY good at being active so the bike commuting thing would suck not to do everyday, but he finds many other ways to stay extremely fit. I know that part of his lifestyle wouldn't go by the wayside. I'm just hoping this won't involve him working a lot of extra hours...it doesn't sound like it at the moment.
Do any of you have experience with retiring early, sooner, are you on that track or the like? Is the more money pro of this worth it?? Seems enticing.

Retiring early was worth it. I checked out at 38 which was earlier than expected but that was after working 80hrs/week for the better part of a decade. No kids too so that helped with the calculus. After I retired I tried doing nothing for a year and was bored out of my mind so started working again with people I enjoyed hanging with but keeping it to 10-15 hrs/week with approx 8 - 10 weeks off a year to ski/bike/travel etc. Sounds trite but they became friends when I worked and stayed friends throughout.

DTM - you mentioned A/E/C. Shareholders in AECs can, at the right time, supercharge their earnings thru dividends and ROC for shareholder partners. If you're in a cyclical AEC in a downturn this can absolutely not work out but that means just a healthy salary and no annual dividend bonuses. I currently "work" with tech companies but also with clean-tech SME companies that employ lots of engineers so have seen colleagues/friends go through cycles especially if in the renewables/mining/resource/pipelines/power-gen categories.

Guessing you're an engineer or some other designated professional. From second-hand experience my friends who were engineers who went the shareholder/partner route AND who managed their expenses, personal lives AND who continued to live in a place that had close proximity to recreation (Squamish, Vancouver, Whistler - SLC seems like it fits that ticket) worked hard but have raised fantastic families and preserved their marriages/sanity. Many of them in their 50s have then semi-retired. The one's who had skillsets or who worked in specializations which lend themselves to part-time work did so as consultants or in small discrete bite-sized projects have done what I did and work enough to keep themselves entertained but not overworked.

Obviously every situation is different. Hope this is helpful.

[Danno]

After reading the details, my question for DTM is whether all those new responsibilities as head honcho is exciting and an opportunity for growth professionally or whether it is just stuff you won't like doing and won't add to your growth as a professional? If the former, everything you've said tells me you should take it. If the latter, much harder question. But I'm someone who strongly values the idea of doing stuff you like (or is good for you) and avoiding BS stuff.

[Iowagriz]

You'll be busier than hell for the next year or two, but you'll learn a ton about yourself, the business, and your relationship with your partner. Get through that portion and get the department running well, and you'll be back to what you have now (except with more money). I did it twice in my career, and both times, it paid off both financially and career wise.

Take your time in building your team, don't settle on a less than perfect hire (one of my first mistakes). This is why it can take up to two years to hire and get running. Be prepared to be overloaded, but also embrace it

Invest the money and retire early. I got laid-off at 56, severance to 57 and retired to enjoy life. As Lee Lau said, retiring can get boring (which really has surprised me). I might take some part-time work in the future, but I am content now.

[Dantheman]

All of it depends on what you want in the end. Would you like to be stretched by the new work? Or do you want to keep doing what you are doing (nothing wrong with that)? Would you be able to leverage the offer to get more from your current company?

Iowagriz pretty much nailed it, I think.

After reading the details, my question for DTM is whether all those new responsibilities as head honcho is exciting and an opportunity for growth professionally or whether it is just stuff you won't like doing and won't add to your growth as a professional?

Mostly the former, but with the anxiety that accompanies a big step into the unknown.

You'll be busier than hell for the next year or two, but you'll learn a ton about yourself, the business, and your relationship with your partner. Get through that portion and get the department running well, and you'll be back to what you have now (except with more money).

Yeah, that's the dream.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

[m2711c]

if you take this and it doesn’t work out, what’s yer backup plan?

[Dantheman]

Find another job?

[m2711c]

What are the chances that “other job” will end up paying less, at least initially, than what you’re earning right now now?


nobody ever wants to think about the possibility that they’re going to fail a particular endeavor. And, failure in that endeavor can come in lots of varieties that actually have nothing to do with fault of the person we are discussing.


How certain are you of the pending opportunity providing the consistent elevated returns you are expecting vers the known returns of your current circumstance?


a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, or so I’ve been told…

[nickwm21]

What side of the AEC industry? I assume the design side as you note a 40hr WW and a fixed commute… in that case, I find it hard to believe that the step up in responsibility and work hours would be astronomical. It sounds like a ~10% increase in demand for a 50% raise. Worth two years to test the water IMHO. Don’t burn bridges in the transition. “Rehires” are common in the industry.

Another way to think about it…. What pay bump from your current employer would make you not even think about leaving? 20%



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[Dantheman]

What are the chances that “other job” will end up paying less, at least initially, than what you’re earning right now now?

How certain are you of the pending opportunity providing the consistent elevated returns you are expecting vers the known returns of your current circumstance?

Pretty low odds, and pretty certain.

What side of the AEC industry?

It rhymes with dental.

Don’t burn bridges in the transition. “Rehires” are common in the industry.

I'd go out of my way to exit amicably, and if the new position didn't work out I feel pretty confident that they'd rehire me like it never happened.

Another way to think about it…. What pay bump from your current employer would make you not even think about leaving? 20%

I've thought about that a lot. 20% would definitely make me think hard, but I'm pretty sure I'd be making more than my boss which could lead to resentment. This does not feel like a time for half measures.

[skaredshtles]

Retiring early was worth it. I checked out at 38 which was earlier than expected but that was after working 80hrs/week for the better part of a decade. No kids too so that helped with the calculus.

I probably would have retired around 40 if I didn't have to worry about kid expenses and health care. Goddam Canadians.

[LeeLau]

I probably would have retired around 40 if I didn't have to worry about kid expenses and health care. Goddam Canadians.

Fwiw some friends of mine in Germany also had the same calculations as us in Canada. Their Healthcare was about the same.

The cost of kids has gone up a lot also due to the expense of secondary education in the US which to me, was eye-opening.