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[LongShortLong]

Story from one of the guys buried.
https://www.kcra.com/article/palisad...scued/46354226

[jackstraw]

Carrying a shovel resort skiing is not why you ski at a resort. Resort skiing is completely different than bc skiing. Most push much harder on a resort vs bc, so a shovel and a pack would be a pia and limiting for most. Let's face it, this is an extremely infrequent occurrence and when it does happen help arrives pretty damn quick. Now wearing and having a beacon makes the process of being found and survival much better and makes sense. Would a shovel be better, sure, but patrol or mtn ops will be there pretty quick with one.

[Angle Parking]

Yeah, apparently a neighbor of mine was one of those digging. Fortunately their guy made it out.

The probe line pics etc. lead me to believe that the response from staff and skiers was excellent.

[neufox47]

I think they should install beacon detectors in the lift line gates and require beacons until all terrain has been opened and skied. It would cut down on the intermediates too. Palisades can even rent one way beacons to touring.

(I’m not at all saying the death was due to not having a beacon or anything, just a general resort safety thought)


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[LongShortLong]

To anyone who was there--the videos I saw showed some people digging with their hands--because there weren't shovels or because they were close to a face? Seems like a lot more people ski with beacons than with shovels but as Spence pointed out, bystanders are often first on the scene.

Not to second guess, but rather for better bystander utilization and future reference and knowledge... I see the hand digging too. If I were there I would have jumped up to organize a downhill crew digging toward the burial with skis and snowboards. IME, a ski is about half as useful as a shovel. The tails are especially good for cutting through snow. Couple people cutting blocks and dumping them downhill for others to move further downhill should access the buried guy pretty fast, no? Or at least move a good amount of snow while waiting for shovels. Possibly the KT slide set up too hard for ski tails(?). I've "ski-dug" snow while camping, or freeing a stuck car/jeep/truck. I'm not officially avy certified, but willing to improvise and throw out ideas for consideration. (Like the guy on scene who collected bamboos to create a probe line)

[old goat]

Carrying a shovel resort skiing is not why you ski at a resort. Resort skiing is completely different than bc skiing. Most push much harder on a resort vs bc, so a shovel and a pack would be a pia and limiting for most. .

When I have carried a shovel I can't say I found it limiting. By your logic if burial is too infrequent for a shovel it's too infrequent for a beacon. What good is your beaxon if no one has a shovel. Yeah, patrol will probably get there in time but they might not or at least not in sufficient numbers. And you know how you're supposed to have a buddy in the trees. What good is having a buddy if they don't have a shovel to dig you out? And if you have a shovel you can rent it out to people who lost their skis in the snow.

On the news this morning the same BS as with the 2008, that the SAC had the risk as considerable---as if the BC risk applied inbounds after mitigation. Oh well, it's what you expect from the news.

[bennymac]

Conducting a beacon search with 20+ people around and more being added every ten seconds would be difficult if everyone is still in send mode on arrival. Not saying we shouldn’t wear beacons - but I imagine it would still be a clusterfuck of a search with lots of chaos. Props to the people that responded and dug that guy out.

[bodywhomper]

There was a mag involved in an avi in the alps where many others were whizzing by out of view on a traverse (and having no idea about the avi out of their view), and the mag and others searching kept receiving those others’ beacon signals. Weren’t there similar problems in that incident in Idaho (lots of people beeping that were searching)?

[skier666]

^^^^^

This...the beacon at the resort thing is only going to work if everyone else in the area is in SEARCH mode. Last thing you want is wasting valuable time and energy digging to a false signal. Granted, ideally a leader would take control and yell for everyone to go into search mode.

[bodywhomper]

What good is your beaxon if no one has a shovel.

Body recovery (ie recovery of the person with the beacon) and possibly quicker closure for loved ones.

[rod9301]

Carrying a shovel resort skiing is not why you ski at a resort. Resort skiing is completely different than bc skiing. Most push much harder on a resort vs bc, so a shovel and a pack would be a pia and limiting for most. Let's face it, this is an extremely infrequent occurrence and when it does happen help arrives pretty damn quick. Now wearing and having a beacon makes the process of being found and survival much better and makes sense. Would a shovel be better, sure, but patrol or mtn ops will be there pretty quick with one.

Pretty quick is still over 5 minutes.

And skiing with a small pack is no big deal at all.

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[Eastside]

I carried all the crap and wore my inflato-bag today. I hated every second of it-carrying the bag, I mean. I feel like a fucking dong wearing it inbounds and its a giant PITA riding full chairs with it. I own the thing so I guess I'd feel dumb if I got smoked and left it in the car

[duffski]

here is helicopter footage of the slide area. looks like it ran from top of gs bowl all the way down over the cliffs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_6sYXjh_G0

[GKWood]

I think that video might be showing a fresh slide from this morning’s control work. I don’t think the one yesterday went that far.


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[old goat]

Is there still a beacon field near the red dog complex or did that disappear with the new lifts? Used to be six transmitters and you could turn on one of them from a control panel.

I would not want to be the guy driving the sno cat in the KCRA video.

[jackstraw]

I think they should install beacon detectors in the lift line gates and require beacons until all terrain has been opened and skied. It would cut down on the intermediates too. Palisades can even rent one way beacons to touring.

(I’m not at all saying the death was due to not having a beacon or anything, just a general resort safety thought)


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Bridger. Remember the video of the guy flipping out because he couldn't ride the lift because he wasn't beeping? And then you had Coombs tricking the thing to get on.

I agree though, it'd be great if it was mandatory...maybe. To others point, if you don't switch to search mode that creates chaos also.

I don't think there is a correct answer here, but I've been beeping after new snow for a while now.

And I also agree with using a ski or snowboard to assist with digging/pushing/sliding snow away. Was thinking the same thing watching the vid.

[T-Boz]

Did anyone else hear about the post control slide in Wolverine Bowl today? Friends said it happened late in the afternoon near the traverse line. It was big but no one caught up or injured.

[yeahman]

Pretty quick is still over 5 minutes.

And skiing with a small pack is no big deal at all.

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Agree. I always ski with beacon/shovel/probe at Big Sky, and don't even notice it on my back anymore. I want to be able to assist in the event of a slide, as unlikely as it is. Plus it is required to ski some of the best terrain. People get lulled into thinking these aren't real mountains just because they are ski resorts. In- bounds slides happen way more often than people realize.

[beaterdit]

I would not want to be the guy driving the sno cat in the KCRA video.

No shit! I was just saying that to the lady as were watching this.

RIP skier. Sorry for his family and friends and for y’all whole community out there. This shit is hard.

Former patroller here, been wearing my beacon just about every day in bounds ever since. Seen a lot of unexpected shit happen. Saw my friend get caught in a large inbounds slide on open terrain at Snowbird too. It’s just part of my kit and my routine so the decision isn’t “do I wear it today?”, it’s “do I leave it today?” I ski avalanche terrain in bounds almost exclusively and I’m always poking around in nooks and crannies looking for unskied or at least soft snow. I’m sure most of us do the same and, shit happens sometimes.

As far as shovels, I carried it on storm days for while after the Snowbird slide but then got lazy. It’s better to have than not but it is kind of a pain and I still feel like wearing the beacon moves the odds a bit in your favor.

[Dark Energy]

I wear my beacon. Too easy not to. Put it on and turn it on at home since I don't want to forget. If patrol has been bombing or it is storming hard, I wear a slim profile pack that does not interfere with riding chairs to carry a shovel and probe.

Watching the video from the KT slide rescue, I need to attempt to add practicing shoveling/organizing a shoveling conga line with my partners.

Condolences to Mr. Kidd's family and positive thoughts to those involved, assisted and PT's patrol team.

[bennymac]

Arcteryx used to make that Quiver bag sling - was to carry shovel and probe and lunch but have it be easy to swing in front of your body on lifts (at least that was one of the benefits of the design). I had one for a decade but then sold it on a “street wear” clothing website for what I paid for it originally.

[Powcruzer]

Mammoth did some control today.

[powdork]

here is helicopter footage of the slide area. looks like it ran from top of gs bowl all the way down over the cliffs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_6sYXjh_G0

yes and no. it did run like that but that guy is wrong. that crown is new from todays control work. The avalanche happened after about 2" fell from yesterdays storm of 14". They would know that if they didn't turn comments off.

edit- while the picture I posted of the crown isn't particularly clear, it is in the video. I just don't have permission to post it. Someone from patrol did approach me via PM and they do have a copy of it.

[telefreewasatch]

First, it's an imperfect science as we all know.

With that said I cannot imagine anyone would open terrain without going thru their avi mitigation protocols. ...back to my first point.

Some may think that a suit would or could push for a lift/terrain to open especially with the bad press of mile long lift lines, but I doubt that could happen?

I'd like to hear Telefree's take on this situation.

Shit happens.
Condolences to all affected.

To those second guessing and armchair QB ing, stfu or go work there and show em how it's done.
Those boys are really good at what they do.

Pet peeve of mine: Calling a fracture line a crown. The crown is the snow remaining above the crown face. The crown face is the fracture.
Thus a 10' crown is actually no big deal.

More later about my thoughts on deep slab instability and it's mitigation...

[SnowMachine]

Worth noting that it was a Wednesday - there was zero pressure to get it open 3 days before the weekend crowds arrive.

Zero? The hard-core locals have been clamoring for KT since opening day. Not getting it open for a pow day is sacrilege.