Tahoe '23/'24 - Reserve Now For Best Pricing!!!

[TahoeJ]

It's a land holding and they have capital. What's the game, though? At this stage we have all but proven that a stand alone public resort won't be profitable. Am I wrong?

A stand alone resort can be profitable / sustainable. Just not profitable enough for investment bankers. They want people to believe that.

[Cono Este]

I know one of the investors, rumor is they are playing hardball with the local,govt to get the approval they want to go private.

I heard they may spin chairs for family and friends. Hoping I can weasel into that.

[bodywhomper]

I know one of the investors, rumor is they are playing hardball with the local,govt to get the approval they want to go private.

I heard they may spin chairs for family and friends. Hoping I can weasel into that.

That’ll all be interesting to watch from the sideline….

[SnowMachine]

It's more of the same. More and more the only value that matters is money. Ski areas were started by people who loved skiing. Doctors took care of people instead of generating profit for private equity. Public schools taught kids; now charter schools lie to parents to make a buck. You've heard it all ad nauseum.
What we've gained in high speed detachables we've lost in joy.

Exactly the point I was originally making. Viability is relative these days. It seems like every year I hear of another small resort closing down.

[SnowMachine]

I know one of the investors, rumor is they are playing hardball with the local,govt to get the approval they want to go private.

I heard they may spin chairs for family and friends. Hoping I can weasel into that.

Same thing I hypothesized. I doubt the resort ever reopens as a thing resembling the resort it once was.

[SnowMachine]

A stand alone resort can be profitable / sustainable. Just not profitable enough for investment bankers. They want people to believe that.

Right, but it takes several things to make this happen. Capital to buy the land/equipment and a desire to work your ass off for a very modest profit.

Outside of creating a new resort where land is cheap (The Rubies) a small, privately owned public, resort is not viable without having money to burn.

[old goat]

I know one of the investors, rumor is they are playing hardball with the local,govt to get the approval they want to go private.

I heard they may spin chairs for family and friends. Hoping I can weasel into that.

What kind of hardball? You don't know the TRPA. They are not accountable to the voters, so public pressure is not going to get them to change their minds. They don't care if the resort opens or not; that is not their mandate. Besides which public pressure is against the owners, not for them. Sounds to me like the owners' big problem is not hiring lawyers and consultants who know how to get a project approved. Perhaps their "team" is used to development in places that are more development-friendly and they figured the applicaiton and approval process was pro forma. Wong.

Hey, I just had an idea. Why don't we refuse to start the 24-25 thread until the TRPA approves the development. Now that might get the TRPA to move things along rather than risk the wrath of maggotdom.

[hercule33]

I will throw in my two cents. Anyone think JMA will abandon the resort and try to redestrict the land for residential use to “help with the housing crisis” in Tahoe. Seems to me if they could get this done then their return on investment would be through the roof and to boot they wouldn’t have to operate a low base area ski resort in an era of climate change.

[gaijin]

Exactly the point I was originally making. Viability is relative these days. It seems like every year I hear of another small resort closing down.

Japan would like a word.

Anyone want to buy 4-8 resorts? Call me. I have a list of defunct mom/pop resorts that have tanked since the ‘90s. Hotels, too.

I might even be able to get you four resorts for 10m.

Shut down grooming significantly. Cook five star food. You might be onto an int’l market of safe BC skiers for chill pow fields and mellow side-country.

They’re scattered across the country.

[SnowMachine]

Japan would like a word.

Anyone want to buy 4-8 resorts? Call me. I have a list of defunct mom/pop resorts that have tanked since the ‘90s. Hotels, too.

I might even be able to get you four resorts for 10m.

Shut down grooming significantly. Cook five star food. You might be onto an int’l market of safe BC skiers for chill pow fields and mellow side-country.

They’re scattered across the country.

They're here, too. A lot of them with snow (lack thereof) issues.

I'm not sure about Japan, but in this country insurance alone kills these things before they get started. I toyed with the idea of putting up a small terrain park for local kids. Rope tow with some features. Similar to the Kingvale park. I have the dirt, but insuring it is impossible.

The changing times is what prevents small resorts from being a thing. The massive cost of lifts, maintenance, insurance (Inc. Workman's comp), utilities, snowmaking, etc.... Nobody with money is willing to park it there.

Sadly, the world has just changed. I'd love to be proven wrong. I hope this Rubies project sprouts legs.

[TahoeJ]

A Japan / US comparison is a pointless exercise. So many different factors at play.

[KPost]

Seems like they backed off a bit from the original amount of paid parking. Was able to get free weekend parking through mid January.

Thanks for all the beta though the years.

[skier666]

Where's the gondola to Alpine?

[shaft]

Enlighten me. I've done some reading, but like I said, I know little about it.

I said what I said. They aren't profitable. I doubt they'll become profitable. Investors like money.

I understand they're frustrated by not being able to move on their projects, but how does closing improve their outlook?

Like I said, enlighten me.

One thing I know is that there are huge wallets on the sideline that would love to have a clubhouse with a ski hill.

Edit: call me a pessimist.

If I lived in Truckee, I sure wouldn't make it over to ski little West Shore resorts much...

They are not profitable, in part, because they don't want to be. In the past three years since Discovery has become part of the team, Howewood has:
-Stopped making a terrain park
-Increased day ticket prices to $200+ per day on a variable pricing model
-Priced kids and lessons basically off the mountain

These are not to increase profitability, they are to tank profitability. Discovery only operates private, members-only clubs, for the uber-wealthy. However, in 2011 JMA sold the public and TRPA on development at the site...right next to a protected lake...on the basis that the resort would remain open to the public. Discovery is hoping that by tanking the resort, Discovery can say to TRPA "it can't be profitable as something open to the public - so just let us develop and make it members-only." In the meantime, Discovery is doing developer things like lining the pockets of local electeds.

Example Discovery properties - https://discoverylandco.com/our-worlds/

Latest from Moonshine - https://www.moonshineink.com/tahoe-n...son-heres-why/

Discovery's approach shown in Scotland - https://medium.com/@christopherjheas...s-63e82c3cdd6f

Discovery at odds with Routt County - https://coloradosun.com/2024/07/28/s...luxury-resort/

[TahoeJ]

I would absolutely drive from Truckee to Homewood on certain days (especially windy) if it was reasonable and they actually had all of their lifts operating. The Alpine / Homewood pass pre-2011 was awesome.

[SnowMachine]

If I lived in Truckee, I sure wouldn't make it over to ski little West Shore resorts much...

Not as much the drive as the season pass model. I have a Alterra pass and a SB pass. It's hard to talk myself into paying day ticket prices these days.

I skied Diamond Peak twice last year, but it was for a TJFS comp. I thoroughly enjoyed the change of scenery.

[SnowMachine]

Where's the gondola to Alpine?

Why not!?!

[old goat]

Truckee's response to the Palisades Village EIR is on the council agenda for tuesday. It is on the consent calendar which means the council is expected to rubber stamp the letter but you can still submit written comment and if you want to speak in person you can request the item be pulled for discussion and make your speech.
The letter is not bad--requesting the Placer County require more transit, more workforce housing, and a shelter in place facility as conditions for approval. Truckee can only request and advise--Placer can do what it damn well pleases.
https://meetings.municode.com/adaHtm...5e7887&ip=true

[Eastern Sierra Skier]

They have the guns fired up at Rose this afternoon.


Current temp is 28 deg. The weather seemed like it went from weeks of extended late summer and skipped over fall this year.

[TurxSki]

So anyone wanna bet who's gonna have a wrod open by Halloween?
Rose, Boreal or Northstar?

[powdork]

Rose. Guns are blazing. Angry inch plus everywhere. This was across the street. Snowing hard enough when I left that I’ll be back

https://youtu.be/geE2Y_wjdsY?si=QYb3qXUNnJqLs8IJ


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[bodywhomper]

The letter is not bad--requesting the Placer County require more transit, more workforce housing, and a shelter in place facility as conditions for approval.

FWIW, making those conditions of approval would trigger the county to complete additional compliance under CEQA to disclose the effects of the conditions (eg building new housing) on the environment.

[TahoeJ]

FWIW, making those conditions of approval would trigger the county to complete additional compliance under CEQA to disclose the effects of the conditions (eg building new housing) on the environment.

Basically Truckee is trying to play nice and save money, which I think is probably the correct approach. If Alterra and Placer County are smart - which is definitely up for debate - they'll comply with those requests and not leave themselves open to escalation.

[bodywhomper]

Basically Truckee is trying to play nice and save money, which I think is probably the correct approach. If Alterra and Placer County are smart - which is definitely up for debate - they'll comply with those requests and not leave themselves open to escalation.

If placer county is to comply with those requests, they'll need to steps backwards in their CEQA compliance.

[old goat]

My guess is Placer will ignore the letter and Truckee will not escalate, but one can always hope. It does give Sierra Watch ammunition if they want to sue again. Interesting that a little group like Sierra Watch can afford big legal bills. They must have someone with $$$ backing them. Maybe Bill Hewlett's descendants? For those who don't know, Hewlett bought land at the mouth of Coldstream Canyon to block a proposed ski area in the canyon, among other environmental causes he took on.