50 years to the day

[mcski]

Plenty of people saw them at the time, asshole. And plenty of people have watched private showings of the videos. Their families understandably don't want the videos made public. You're one of the original rape deniers in this thread. The fact that you're still denying it is pathetic.

Send me a vid

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decode...6667274_8.html

It’s wild to me that it’s so important for your demonization of hamas that it was true. As if murdering civvies isn’t enough

[MultiVerse]

There was an unsupported claim of 40 beheaded babies. That's not what I wrote, however. The Israeli government showed graphic photos of babies who were killed and/or burned by Hamas. They also showed videos of decapitations. Even The Guardian confirmed the videos, "The material included the killing of children and decapitation of some victims."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-of-atrocities

And according to an NPR reporter who watched the videos, "In one of the most gruesome scenes screened to foreign media, a man calls out for a knife and calls to cut off a wounded man's head, before attempting to behead him with a garden hoe."

https://www.npr.org/2023/10/27/12088...videos-details

Like I said, I personally saw the video described in the NPR story before it was taken down.

[summit]

My friend saw some of the beheading and dead baby vids/images. It crushed him. I chose not to bear witness that way.

Really though. It's mind blowing to me to see how people completely forget the events of Oct 7th when they learn about horrific shit the IDF did post Oct 7th. When KNOW FOR A FACT that Hamas raped and tortured and beheaded etc, civilians on Oct 7th. We also now KNOW FOR A FACT that the IDF raped and tortured prisoners, and also committed atrocities against gazan civilians.

The moral high ground in the war is below sea level. It's a terrible situation. I personally am calling on the IDF to do better because they are the side with any hope of being better. Hamas will never rise above horrific tactics and so why waste energy calling on the to be better?


I can call for the total destruction and death of Hamas, while also calling for Israel to uphold higher standards while they wage this war.

I agree with all that except for the tyranny of lower expectations for the Palestinians which is also unfair to the Israelis. You can call for the highest standards for the Israelis, ideally. Clearly the SA subject currently at hand in no circumstance can it be hand waved or excused.

Stepping back to the bigger picture of conflict, it is damned hard for the Israelis to held to the highest standard in the world by a world that also excuses their opponent of having to live up to even lower standards because for some reason they are not expected to. The solution isn't excusing the Israelis, but it is recognizing that double standard and demanding the Palestinians live up to the highest standard. The Nazis weren't excused for being barbaric. Hamas?

[ex-powderbroker]

i don’t think israel ever claimed 40 babies were beheaded - it seems like the people who ran with that used it to smear any supporters of
israel.

but there were beheadings, besides the thai guy which was widely shared they also ransomed the head of a solder (or tried to)

https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-782655

guess the rumors came from somewhere?

[J. Barron DeJong]

My friend saw some of the beheading and dead baby vids/images. It crushed him. I chose not to bear witness that way.



I agree with all that except for the tyranny of lower expectations for the Palestinians which is also unfair to the Israelis. You can call for higher standards for the Israelis ideally. Clearly the subject currently at hand in no circumstance can it be hand waved or excused.

Stepping back to the bigger picture of conflict, it is damned hard for the Israelis to held to the highest standard in the world by a world that also excuses their opponent of having to live up to even lower standards because for some reason they are not expected to. The solution isn't excusing the Israelis, but it is recognizing that double standard and demanding the Palestinians live up to the highest standard. The Nazis weren't excused for being barbaric. Hamas?

He said Hamas, not Palestinians.

[MultiVerse]

Hamas is made up of Palestinians and to this day has widespread support among Palestinians. Hamas is the elected government of Gaza. If Israel withdrew from the West Bank Hamas would throw Fatah leaders from rooftops and take over the next day.

There is an enormous gap between what Westerners think the Palestinian cause is and what Palestinians think the Palestinian cause is. For peace to happen, there has to be Palestinian governments in the West Bank and Gaza that does not want to see Israel destroyed as its only goal:

https://x.com/MarinaMedvin/status/1815828618418761848

[summit]

He said Hamas, not Palestinians.

Hamas, the Gazan government duly elected by the Palestinians who are still favored and whose actions are supported by Palestinians despite their despotic, theocratic, gang-like, corrupt, oppressive, murderous, genocidal, democidal, and suicidal actions.

The expectations for both Hamas and Palestinians should be exactly the same as the standards the Israeli government and Israelis are held to.

Holding Hamas to a lower standard than the Israeli government cheapens their crimes and creates an unequal moral field.

Holding Palestinians to a lower standard than the Israeli people is a racist attitude of tyrannically low expectations that reduces their human value and robs them of agency.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Hamas, the Gazan government duly elected by the Palestinians who are still favored and whose actions are supported by Palestinians despite their despotic, theocratic, gang-like, corrupt, oppressive, murderous, genocidal, democidal, and suicidal actions.

The expectations for both Hamas and Palestinians should be exactly the same as the standards the Israeli government and Israelis are held to.

Holding Hamas to a lower standard than the Israeli government cheapens their crimes and creates an unequal moral field.

Holding Palestinians to a lower standard than the Israeli people is a racist attitude of tyrannically low expectations that reduces their human value and robs them of agency.

I don’t think the soft bigotry of low expectations is the only racism going on here…

[summit]

Since you ask on the racist bit, maybe it is racist or maybe it is Islamophobic to believe that it is OK for Palestinians to operate a lower moral standard than Israelis.

As a point of fact, Palestinians are a nearly monolithic ethnoreligiously: 99+% Arab and 98+% Sunni Muslim and 1+% Shia Muslim, <1% Christian.

Israelis are a multiethnic multireligious society, ethnically the largest groups are mixed Middle Eastern, African, Caucasian, Asian, after than unitary origin in the previously mentioned order, then Arab and and the other 5% of various. Religiously the Israelis are 73% Jewish (variety of types), 18% Muslim (variety of types), 2% Christian, 2% Druze, and 5% of various other beliefs from Bahia to Atheism to Zoroastrianism.

It is bigoted to say one society is fine to have lower standards.

[summit]

Hamas executes a hostage, shoots two other women hostages

UK, France, Germany tell Iran not to attack Israel

[mcski]

There was an unsupported claim of 40 beheaded babies. That's not what I wrote, however. The Israeli government showed graphic photos of babies who were killed and/or burned by Hamas. They also showed videos of decapitations. Even The Guardian confirmed the videos, "The material included the killing of children and decapitation of some victims."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-of-atrocities

And according to an NPR reporter who watched the videos, "In one of the most gruesome scenes screened to foreign media, a man calls out for a knife and calls to cut off a wounded man's head, before attempting to behead him with a garden hoe."

https://www.npr.org/2023/10/27/12088...videos-details

Like I said, I personally saw the video described in the NPR story before it was taken down.

Sounds like a full of shit claim. As I said, zero evidence of decapitated piles of babies. Links to vids that exist shouldn’t be a problem w the internet. Hamas likes to promote evil, remember?

“My friend saw this, blah blah” bullshit

It doesn’t even matter in the overall scope on the atrocity, it’s an unnecessary an embellished claim and unsupported - even though claims at the time said there was video of everything. We know Men, Women, and children were killed. The end. The rest is propaganda

[MultiVerse]

I described watching the video contemporaneously in this thread last October 8th, "There's video of a Hamas terrorist beheading an already dying Israeli civilian with a garden hoe" and you're arguing NPR made up the story almost a month later after reading about it on TGR?

And I agree Hamas wasn't trying to hide any of it. They celebrated every murder with dancing in the streets. From page one October 7th of this thread, "The demented videos and images of civilians, entire families, executed in the streets are coming from pro-Hamas groups. Disturbing acts of terror directed at civilians. The militants aren't trying to hide it. Totally insane savagery."

[mcski]

Uh, what’s that got to do w the mystery of decapitated baby piles? More of your typical blah blah

I don’t really give a shit if it did or didn’t happen because at the end of the day, the result is the same.

[Mazderati]

He said Hamas, not Palestinians.

Whoops.

[MultiVerse]

I don’t really give a shit if it did or didn’t happen

It happened and it's been obvious from the start that you don't give a shit

Whoops.

This video is worth watching if for no other reason than better understanding the Palestinian point of view:

https://x.com/MarinaMedvin/status/1815828618418761848

[Mazderati]

This video is worth watching if for no other reason than better understanding the Palestinian point of view:

https://x.com/MarinaMedvin/status/1815828618418761848

Surprised she could fit this into her busy schedule of defending 06 Jan patriots and talk shows with Gorka.

[summit]

Hezbollah has evacuated their headquarters in Beirut, no doubt relocating to a school or hospital, as is the style.

OSINT reports increased activity from Iranian missile units and drone units.

Iranian militias in Iraq released a statement threatening full attacks on US forces if the US interferes with attacks on Israel.

[MultiVerse]

Surprised she could fit this into her busy schedule of defending 06 Jan patriots and talk shows with Gorka.

Well, not knowing who she is I'm certainly not going to defend her. Nor does she have anything to do with the video apart from posting it. It does illustrate however how for a lot of people Middle East conflict is based on their own domestic political neurosis. It's like people are watching two different movies.

The main point is an overwhelming majority of Palestinians still support Hamas to this day. And I do think Jan 6th is a good example of the domestic phenomena. Most of us here are rightly appalled by what happened on Jan 6th and also understand Russia interferes in American domestic politics. They help foment unrest. At the same time, too many of us who lean blue fail to recognize how violent pro-Hamas-Palestinian protests are similarly driven in large part by foreign propaganda. Only instead of Russia it's coming from Qatar and Iran.

[californiagrown]

Hamas are terrorists. I expect them to act accordingly.


Israel is a modern, western, first world country and a leader of an important geographic region in the world. I expect them to act accordingly.


I am not excusing Hamas. I am rightfully assuming that they will act as terrorists do. That is their purpose, that is their history, that is their future as far as anyone can tell. Pure evil that needs to be removed. Period.

[Cono Este]

Where are we sending these jets?

I doubt turkey would accept more now should we trust them. The Iraq base could be over run quickly, I guess there are plenty of options, but if the whole region goes up in flames,

[Cono Este]

Summit, stop arguing with hypocrites who themselves live on stolen land.

This is hilarious, let’s go back to 1946, tell Truman to focus all his attention on not pissing off the Arabs after freeing them from the Turks and Nazis, and not worry about global starvation.

Fact, more would have died from starvation at that time if anytimenhad been wasted. My gramps was dropping food all over the world.

[rod9301]

What's the point of this provocation?

The mosque is, for many years, off limits to non Muslims.

Ben Gvir Leads Over 1,000 Israeli Settlers In Jewish Prayer At Flashpoint Al-Aqsa Mosque


Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

[summit]

Iran angers Hezbollah and Hamas by telling leaders to delay attacks on Israel, causing them to yell and storm out of a Tehran meeting.

Lincoln CSG approaching the Malacca Straits.
Reagan CSG rumored to put to sea out of San Diego with unknown mission. (Probably ECS then Yokosuka, but proximity to CENTCOM theater)
Roosevelt CSG and Wasp ARG remain in theater.
America ARG reported to be in the Philippines Sea.
Cavour CSG (Italy, more of an ARG with F-35s but only a reinforced company of marines) reportedly headed toward theater from Philippines Sea, but unknown destination/mission (maybe home port).

Columbia President Minouche Shafik resigns over controversial mismanagement of anti-Israel protests.

Injunction issued against UCLA must not allow protestors to ban Jews access to campus or classes after a suit over protesters creating a “Jew Exclusion Zone” where in order to pass “a person had to make a statement pledging their allegiance to the activists’ view.” Those who complied with the protester view were issued a wristband to allow them to pass through, the complaint said, which effectively barred access to Jewish students that supported Israel and denied them access to the heart of campus.

On Tuesday, U.S. District Judge Mark C. Scarsi sided with the three students, and rebuked the school.

“Jewish students were excluded from portions of the UCLA campus because they refused to denounce their faith. This fact is so unimaginable and so abhorrent to our constitutional guarantee of religious freedom,”

[leroy jenkins]

Right. Everyone who believes that any IDF soldiers that committed rape or SA of prisoners should go unpunished please step forward.

Anyone?

…

Sergeant Strawman? How could you!

Lol, so you don't think that, you're just fine supporting those that do think that?

[leroy jenkins]

Really though. It's mind blowing to me to see how people completely forget the events of Oct 7th when they learn about horrific shit the IDF did post Oct 7th. When KNOW FOR A FACT that Hamas raped and tortured and beheaded etc, civilians on Oct 7th. We also now KNOW FOR A FACT that the IDF raped and tortured prisoners, and also committed atrocities against gazan civilians.

The moral high ground in the war is below sea level. It's a terrible situation. I personally am calling on the IDF to do better because they are the side with any hope of being better. Hamas will never rise above horrific tactics and so why waste energy calling on the to be better?


I can call for the total destruction and death of Hamas, while also calling for Israel to uphold higher standards while they wage this war.

Just like people seem to forget al the events before 10/7 when they are horrified at the events of 10/7.