50 years to the day

[Bunion 2020]

Justification for the invasion: The US government, under President George W. Bush, argued that Iraq, under Saddam Hussein, was developing and concealing WMDs, including nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons. This was a major factor in the decision to invade Iraq.

Claims of WMDs: The Bush administration presented intelligence reports and public statements, notably Colin Powell's address to the UN Security Council, alleging Iraq's possession of WMDs. These included claims about uranium from Niger, aluminum tubes for centrifuges, mobile weapons labs, and chemical weapons stockpiles.

Lack of evidence: Despite extensive searches by US and international teams, no stockpiles of WMDs were found. This led to widespread criticism of the intelligence used to justify the invasion. Consequences: The failure to find WMDs significantly damaged the credibility of the US government and intelligence agencies. It also fueled debates about the reasons for the war and its consequences for Iraq and the region. Iraqi WMD programs:

While Iraq did have a WMD program before the 1991 Gulf War, it was dismantled under UN supervision. However, there were persistent suspicions, particularly in the US, that Iraq was secretly rebuilding its WMD capabilities. Remnant chemical weapons: Some remnant chemical weapons were discovered and destroyed during the US occupation, but most were old and unusable.

.

Lets not reapeat the same mistakes..... again.

[MultiVerse]

"Lack of evidence" is the key point in Bunion's post. There's no lack of evidence in the case of Iran. Iran has spent decades developing its nuclear program. Iran has highly enriched uranium. Iran has stockpiles of the key ingredient to make a nuclear bomb. In 2023, the IAEA even found uranium enriched to 83.7% purity in environmental samples:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/01/middl...ntl/index.html

[summit]

For the record, commercial power reactors use low enriched urabium 20pct tops or even natural uranium.

Only military uses need highly enriched uranium.

[summit]

Iran should seek a ceasefire to IAEA into the underground facilities to show that Israel was wrong in its assumptions predicating these strikes. Israel would be the bad guy.

We're, uh, we're waiting.

[highangle]

. Lets not reapeat the same mistakes..... again.

Do you not remember Stuxnet?

[rod9301]

My observation of rodney is that he is one of those fiscally conservative, socially liberal independents. So yes, a trumpster at heart.

Wrong

Sent from my motorola edge 2024 using Tapatalk

[Cisco Kid]

prove it

[Core Shot]

<p>

&quot;The IAEA report, a quarterly, also estimated that as of May 17, Iran&rsquo;s overall stockpile of enriched uranium &mdash; which includes uranium enriched to lower levels &mdash; stood at 9,247.6 kilograms (20,387.4 pounds). That&rsquo;s an increase of 953.2 kilograms (2,101.4 pounds) since February&rsquo;s report.&quot;

</p>
<p>
&nbsp;</p>
<p>
<a href="https://www.csoonline.com/article/562691/stuxnet-explained-the-first-known-cyberweapon.html">https://www.csoonline.com/article/562691/stuxnet-explained-the-first-known-cyberweapon.html</a></p>

[Cono Este]

6 months. After nearly 50 yrs, 6 months for the skyway to open and trump and Bibi to end these fuckers. While the last team of progressive, unicorn breeding twits withheld Jdam kits, and probably before trump took office, he and Bibi put this together. Best part, we’re doing it via proxy and fucking everyone else like Putin and china at the same time.

It’s chess, not checkers. Sanctions worked too, no Air Force. That’s how paper thin these dimwits were.

[RTsucks]

Which podcast that from bro?

[civilcoconut]

The US passed into law a $26 billion dollar appropriation in 2024 for Isreal.
&quot;From 2021 to the end of 2023, the U.S. delivered an estimated 5,214 missiles to Israel&mdash;nearly 3,000 of which were Boeing&#39;s GBU-39 Small Diameter Bombs. (A special variant of the GBU-39 was recently delivered to Ukraine.)
An estimated 3,000 Boeing Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAMs) were also delivered to Israel during this time period. JDAMs are not standalone bombs&mdash;rather, they&rsquo;re kits consisting of a tail and navigation that convert free-fall bombs into &ldquo;smart&rdquo; bombs that can be guided to a target. Boeing refers to them as &ldquo;near-precision&rdquo; weapons.&quot;
https://www.kuow.org/stories/graphic...ered-to-Israel
IE - Joe Biden signed off on the US taxpayer buying this:
The Israel Security Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2024
The bill totals $26.38 billion to support Israel in its effort to defend itself against Iran and its proxies, and to reimburse U.S. military operations in response to recent attacks.

• $4 billion to replenish Iron Dome and David&rsquo;s Sling missile defense systems.
• $1.2 billion for the Iron Beam defense system to counter short-range rockets and mortar threats.
• $3.5 billion for the procurement of advanced weapons systems, defense articles, and defense services through the Foreign Military Financing Program.
• $1 billion to enhance the production and development of artillery and critical munitions.
• $4.4 billion to replenish defense articles and defense services provided to Israel.
• $2.4 billion for current U.S. military operations in the region in response to recent attacks.
• Provides additional flexibility for transfers of defense articles to Israel from U.S. stockpiles held abroad.
• Prohibits funds to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA).

My understanding is that Biden held up the transfer of 2000lb and 500lb JDAM kits in the build up to Isreal going into Rafah without adequately addressing the US&#39;s concerns about civilians. Sec. Austin seemingly expressed the opinion that 2000lb bombs were not appropriate for use in civilian areas, Isreal seems to have wanted them for bombing tunnels. Seems to have been part of the general pattern of intermittent pressure by Isreals allies regarding concerns about treatment of civilians in the conflict.
Trump unfroze the transfers in February.

[summit]

I'm just not 100% that what needs to happen will happen without USAF strategic bomber and GBU-57s.

[californiagrown]

A small, shitty, part of my conscious hopes that all the people who abstained from the 2024 election, or voted for trump because of Biden&#39;s support of israel see the above and are absolutely sick to their fucking stomachs. Naive, simplistic fucks.

I read somewhere that trump warned bibi against targeting the heads of iranian state and the Ayotollah. Probably doesnt want to set the precedent of making it normal to assassinate world leaders, cough, cough. So, similar to gaza, what is Israels plan here? Seems like they cannot destroy Iran&#39;s nuke program, just set it back... which will make Iran even more sure that they need a nuke cause they cannot protect themselves conventionally. So is Israel going for regime change (then why not ignore trump and target the TOP leadership?) Or are they simply going for a return to Iranian relations from 8-10 years ago? Kick the can down the road a little further... I.e. gaza/palestine/hamas. What is the actual goal here? Is it simply a short term acute goal where they setback iran&#39;s nuke program a few years, or is there a longer term goal?

Its like Israel is a cop who keeps disarming and cuffing dangerous criminals in a surrounding mob, but once they put the ziptie cuffs on they have no further plan... either keep wailing on the cuffed criminal with a nightstick, or leave em and move on to the next criminal, only for the last criminal to break out of his cuffs and start attacking all over again. I understand they need to protect themselves in the short-term, but there is no long term strategy at play here... Its like they seemingly are content to live in a state of constant conflict and war... maybe it is simply the culture of the residents of the levant to do so forever.

[californiagrown]

I&#39;m just not 100% that what needs to happen will happen without USAF strategic bomber and GBU-57s.

You know how many nimrods bumpkins voted for dumps in large part because &quot;he&#39;s not gonna get us involved in stupid wars, and the affairs of other countries&quot;? That was a HUGE promise of his campaign. Oh wait. I forgot, maga has no principles, ethics, or intelligence and lives by &quot;in trump we trust&quot; absolutely. Fuck.

FWIW im fairly hawkish in regards to international relations and i think we should give Israel bunker busters with the express consideration that they only be used on hardened military targets (netanz) and not in civilian areas (even military targets in civilian areas). And we keep all american aircraft out of it. If Israel does in fact have full air superiorty in Iran, as is claimed, then israel doesnt need to use F35s anymore and can switch to non-stealth heavy bombers if they choose.

Also, arent bunker busters basically just artillery barrels packed with explosives on a delay fuse more or less? Heavy AF, but doesnt seem overly technically complicated for a country like Israel to develop on their own... especially as tunnels and deeply buried enemies seem extremely common for them.

[::: :::]

Trump Always Chickens Out is not just about tariffs

His attempts at displaying Strength are just a facade that basically every country but our own considers to be paper tiger bluster

When your entire admin is based on lies, it has no fundamental purpose or foundational strength.

[summit]

CA grown what do you want Israel to do?

Iran is crystal fucking clear about their intention to destroy Israel and the US, and they have been doing their best to do so by being the #1 state sponsor of global terrorism for decades. They are neck deep in Yemen, Syrian, Lebanon, Palestinian and Iraqi civil wars but they also have their death squads shooting and blowing people up across the globe from Asia to the US to Europe to South America. Most Americans don't know the dets.

Twelver Shia Islam is some insane apocolyptic shit.

They want to do more, but they can't because they are a country of 90M people with a GDP twice the size of Ukraine's, but they are up against the US. Similarly, what can Israel do by themselves? They are 9M people with a GDP similar to Iran. Iran's answer is to get nukes. Israel's answer is to stop Iran from getting nukes.

Do you remember that Cold War thing? Containing and degrading your enemy is less horrific than nuking them, from the Western liberal point of view. If they are a rational actor, you can deter them.

Iran is an apocolyptic extremist theocracy that venerates and promotes martyrdom. They have goals they want to meet beyond just dying for Allah because they want to bring for the hidden 12th Imam (the Mahdi) to usher the end of the mortal world. Deterrence of this mindset cannot be mutually assured destruction, as this is acceptable. To successfuly deter that sort of religious mindset, you must have the credible threat of a highly disproportionate exchange where you still survive and they do not. So, whatever keeps Iran from having The Bomb for now is the only course of survival for Israel (and really the US, and the Sunni Arabs).

That is why we see this sort of can-kicking exercise. Israel and the Arab states simply are unable to end the Ayatollah threat once and for all with a direct regime change. The West doesn't want to spend the blood and treasure. So, kick the can by knocking out Iranian strategic military infrastructure and forces, weaken the Ayatollah regime, hope the Persians do their own regime change.

This is shitty but it is MUCH less bloody than either alternative.

[Bunion 2020]

There is a LOT of history contained in the TGRz. Maybe go back to around 2003 and see what so many were so sure about the war in Iraq. Too bad everthing prior to 2008 is gone.

Yes, Iran is evil, doesnt change the fact that I want us to really get this right. Iraq was said to be evil as well.

[californiagrown]

its a pretty hot war right now. I think Israel should finish off iran. If they have full air superiority, then they should, IMO, completely obliterate iran&#39;s military infrastructure... not just deal it a serious blow. Every last military airfield and hangar, military building and warehouse, lab and radar/SAM site should be obliterated. Bibi should sell his soul to america in exchange for GBUs and whatever other bunker busters we have in the arsenal and fully destroy the iranian military complex. With full air superiority every static target should get destroyed. I am concerned that they are content at simply dealing a serious blow, as opposed to dealing the regime a death blow.... which would be wild as they had no qualms about bouncing the rubble in gaza for 2 years.

[californiagrown]

There is a LOT of history contained in the TGRz. Maybe go back to around 2003 and see what so many were so sure about the war in Iraq. Too bad everthing prior to 2008 is gone. Yes, Iran is evil, doesnt change the fact that I want us to really get this right. Iraq was said to be evil as well.

Iraq and saddam were evil. RELLY FUCKING EVIL. Full stop.

they just didnt have the WMD program that the public was sold on. How the war was prosecuted was a mistake. Taking out saddam&#39;s government and military was not a bad thing.

[rod9301]

Iraq and saddam were evil. RELLY FUCKING EVIL. Full stop.

they just didnt have the WMD program that the public was sold on. How the war was prosecuted was a mistake. Taking out saddam's government and military was not a bad thing.

I disagree. When Saddam was in power, Iraq was a functioning country. Sure he killed 5000 people a year, but when us invaded, hundreds of thousands died, plus Iraqi refugees flooded Europe, creating many problems.

There was no reason to get involved.

Sent from my motorola edge 2024 using Tapatalk

[summit]

Blasting tunnels a maximum of 7 miles from your territory is extremely different than flying across multiple other countries' airspace to attack targets up to 1800mi away where a minor mechanical issue or minor damage means your invaluable aircraft and pilot end up in the Ayatollah's hands. Given that, the Izzies are doing a bang up job so far. But they don't have an aircraft that can carry the GBU-57, which is a 30,000 ton bomb which the US specifically made to take out targets like Iran's nuclear facilities. Only the US has planes that can carry it (B-2A, B-52H, B-1B and B-21).

Israel does have GBU-72s which are only 5,000 pounds and they pretty much need the F-15I to drop it. I don't think F-35I can do it. Israel put 80 bombs into Hezbollah HQ in Beruit to kill it... only 100 miles from Israel. Does Israel have total air dominance to the point where they can put a gaggle of F-15Is and tankers over a buried nuclear target over 1000mi away to hit the same hole in succession? Will it even work? Not sure if it would work or if Israel truly has the capability... or enough weapons and aircraft.

I am absolutely ecstatic to see Israel shredding Iran's ballistic missile and drone stockpiles and production. This is an amazingly good thing for the US and US interests with regards to shipping, and Iran cutting off Russia from these weapons they have been supplying to Russia which it was using to bombard Ukraine. This Iran-Israel thing could be a turning point for Ukraine.

[MultiVerse]

FWIW, Saddam Hussein wanted the world, especially Iran and the United States, to believe that Iraq possessed nuclear weapons. He did this to deter potential adversaries and project an image of strength and power. While Iraq had previously engaged in a nuclear weapons program, it had been dismantled under international supervision after the Gulf War. However, Saddam continued to foster the perception that he retained the capability, even though that was not the case

To the larger point, does the "Bush lied!" argument suggest some sort of action, not an invasion of course, would have been acceptable if Saddam had WMDs? Because in that case Iran is the "Bush-told-the-truth" scenario. If people think crazed murderous jihadist countries should have nuclear weapons then they should just say that instead.

[Cisco Kid]

Over under on how many years before the first trump hotel golf resort breaks ground?

[highangle]

They should have let Greta and her little flotilla of fucking attentionwhore Communists into Gaza to distribute their half case of vegan almond butter and lingonberry jelly. It would be comedy hour around here when the usual suspects blamed Israel for reducing Hamas to the point they have to sell hostage organs on the black market to build proper AntiZionist datacenters.

[PNWbrit]

This thread might have reached peak acronym.