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  1. #2601
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    https://archive.ph/2023.12.05-235926...ium=iOS_Native

    conspiracy theories were already going crazy with blood libels about how netanyahu wanted an excuse to level gaza, idf killed most the israelis, rapes weren’t real etc and etc.

    i don’t know why it’s so much harder to convince people that preventing a crime is much harder than waking up thinking it’s going to be a great day, but it seems to be the case in all of these events.

    as to the free speech debate, i got a chuckle:



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    j'ai des grands instants de lucididididididididi

  2. #2602
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    "The mind, once expanded to the dimensions of larger ideas, never returns to its original size."

  3. #2603
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    Ireland certainly has an opinion about things

    https://x.com/IrePalestine/status/17...259865544?s=20
    j'ai des grands instants de lucididididididididi

  4. #2604
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    Ireland certainly has an opinion about things

    https://x.com/IrePalestine/status/17...259865544?s=20
    j'ai des grands instants de lucididididididididi

  5. #2605
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcski View Post
    I have no issue with From the a river to the Sea because it’s context dependent. At its base it’s about one state (ie no israel) but outside of Hamas perhaps, it’s not always a call for genocide. Just no more israel as a state. Big difference and is NOT the same thing. I’ve heard the phrase for a long time from Palestinians i know and never once was it said as code for annihilating Jews in the region. Context. You may not like it but it does have alternate meanings / interpretations.
    Quote Originally Posted by ex-powderbroker View Post
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    Lol yup! mcski needs to see this one.

    As for his Palestinian friends, perhaps he should point blank ask them what they mean by that, because it seems that when even seemingly nice people interviewed at the rallies are pressed about the statement, they're ultimately like "Yeah. That's exactly what it means."

    "From the river to the sea" has ALWAYS meant the establishment of a Palestinian state from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. It has never meant anything else BUT that. There's no special "context" that means anything different. And in a "liberated" Palestine as such, there is no tolerance for Jews to exist there. Make no mistake about that. People need to quit making excuses for people chanting such slogans. It is steeped in intolerance, yet our society's champions of tolerance are oddly cool with it. Makes zero sense.

  6. #2606
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    Remember when it was "Is the dress blue or green?" What color was it?
    Seeker of Truth. Dispenser of Wisdom. Protector of the Weak. Avenger of Evil.

  7. #2607
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    Lol yup! mcski needs to see this one.

    As for his Palestinian friends, perhaps he should point blank ask them what they mean by that, because it seems that when even seemingly nice people interviewed at the rallies are pressed about the statement, they're ultimately like "Yeah. That's exactly what it means."

    "From the river to the sea" has ALWAYS meant the establishment of a Palestinian state from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. It has never meant anything else BUT that. There's no special "context" that means anything different.
    You’re literally saying the same thing he did, you’re just adding your own color to it.

  8. #2608
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    Re: From the river to the sea… How’s that working out for Palestinians right now? They might wanna drop the rhetoric next go around


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  9. #2609
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    Quote Originally Posted by east or bust View Post
    Re: From the river to the sea… How’s that working out for Palestinians right now? They might wanna drop the rhetoric next go around


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I feel as though had Hamas carried out the same brutal terrorist attack but people refrained from chanting ‘from the river to the sea’ the offensive in Gaza would still have been pretty much what we’re currently witnessing.

  10. #2610
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyCarter View Post
    You’re literally saying the same thing he did, you’re just adding your own color to it.
    Not quite. Just addressing the "context matters" idiocy on this one. How many Muslims live in Israel? Now inversely, how many Jews live in Palestine? There ya have it. A Palestinian state "from the River to the Sea" can only happen with getting rid of the Jewish people there, whether that by extermination (Hamas' preference) or forced expulsion at the very least. Either way, it ain't exactly sunshine and rainbows. There is not exactly some mysterious "context" to have to decipher. They are pretty open about this. It's just that oh so tolerant morans in the West are trying to add some kind of spin on it like it doesn't mean exactly what Palestinians are literally saying it means.

  11. #2611
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    50 years to the day

    Over 500k settlers in the West Bank (not including 200k in East Jerusalem) in
    Illegal settlements mostly afaik

    Jews and Muslims lived together before Isreal so there’s that.

    It’s actually the propagandists that are putting the spin on the slogan that it always means genocide

    I don’t need to ask my Palestinian friends what they meant because we were having a conversation, not parroting talking points

    https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2...an-really-mean

  12. #2612
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    Some solid chuckles to be found in your thinking, Austin. Start with:

    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    "From the river to the sea" has ALWAYS meant the establishment of a Palestinian state from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. It has never meant anything else BUT that. There's no special "context" that means anything different.
    And then immediately give it the context you need to prop up your narrative:

    And in a "liberated" Palestine as such, there is no tolerance for Jews to exist there. Make no mistake about that. People need to quit making excuses for people chanting such slogans. It is steeped in intolerance, yet our society's champions of tolerance are oddly cool with it. Makes zero sense.
    You don't have the imagination it takes to understand that other people can imagine a non-Jewish-dominated apartheid state in which both Jews and Palestinians can live and call that a "free Palestine." Let's even make it easier by trying to imagine that those people, being human, are getting it wrong. If that's possible then it's possible that humans exist who believe such a thing, even though you imagine that you can prove the impossibility of it. You can't get there. Prove me wrong.

  13. #2613
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    Not quite. Just addressing the "context matters" idiocy on this one. How many Muslims live in Israel? Now inversely, how many Jews live in Palestine? There ya have it. A Palestinian state "from the River to the Sea" can only happen with getting rid of the Jewish people there, whether that by extermination (Hamas' preference) or forced expulsion at the very least. Either way, it ain't exactly sunshine and rainbows. There is not exactly some mysterious "context" to have to decipher. They are pretty open about this. It's just that oh so tolerant morans in the West are trying to add some kind of spin on it like it doesn't mean exactly what Palestinians are literally saying it means.
    Hmm, rings a vague bell.

    Quote Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong View Post
    Page 91, Post #2262 From Likud’s founding platform (Netanyahu’s party):

    The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.

    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...he-likud-party
    Clearly the answer is to split the territory north/south. And, not sure about the river side, but while at it sprinkle an abundance of casinos along that beautiful sea shore, and spread the wealth around.

    And, regarding Jerusalem ... ah shit, fuckit.
    The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.

  14. #2614
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    Even if you think there is context wrt "from the river to the sea" slogan and believe that it doesn't mean getting rid of all the Jews in the area or would still mean them having to live under Palestinian law. What would that mean for women living there? For happily married LGBT people?

  15. #2615
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoooR View Post
    Even if you think there is context wrt "from the river to the sea" slogan and believe that it doesn't mean getting rid of all the Jews in the area or would still mean them having to live under Palestinian law. What would that mean for women living there? For happily married LGBT people?
    Solid points. Convincing, to my mind. If we accept the idea that context means asking what someone actually thinks instead of assuming it with maximum bad faith then that's the exact thing that should be asked of anyone using that chant. Whether they are using it to call for genocide or they're just naively optimistic about what Palestinians would do if they had the power is a question that should be asked directly or, failing that, inferred from context.

  16. #2616
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    'What would that mean for women living there? "


    What does it mean for women to live in Texas where the some religious minority sect's version of the Bible has been codified into law to be in charge of women's bodies ?

    Weak tea.
    Seeker of Truth. Dispenser of Wisdom. Protector of the Weak. Avenger of Evil.

  17. #2617
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcski View Post

    Jews and Muslims lived together before Isreal so there’s that.
    any idea of kumbaya pre-48 is not real. before the civil war almost all massacres were by arabs against jews.

    then you have centuries of history of dhimmi taxes and pogroms in muslim lands before and after.

    i don’t say this to excuse the treatment of palestinians now, its not right to occupy lands and create different classes of rights, but people need to be real about the history and how we got here too.

    even the arab rebellion against the british 33-36 is totally forgotten about by people today who think violence in mandate palestine consisted of one king david bombing.
    j'ai des grands instants de lucididididididididi

  18. #2618
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    Has anyone proposed governing the whole area from the river to the sea as single a non-religious secular liberal Democratic state?

    Since we’re just proposing outcomes that have no chance of happening, let alone working, that one seems ideal to me (a left leaning agnostic).

  19. #2619
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco Kid View Post
    'What would that mean for women living there? "


    What does it mean for women to live in Texas where the some religious minority sect's version of the Bible has been codified into law to be in charge of women's bodies ?

    Weak tea.
    You, sir, are a moran of the highest order to even remotely conflate the two. You clearly haven't visited these countries where women dress like this. I have...


  20. #2620
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    You don't have the imagination it takes to understand that other people can imagine a non-Jewish-dominated apartheid state in which both Jews and Palestinians can live and call that a "free Palestine." Let's even make it easier by trying to imagine that those people, being human, are getting it wrong. If that's possible then it's possible that humans exist who believe such a thing, even though you imagine that you can prove the impossibility of it. You can't get there. Prove me wrong.
    My dear, jono. You cannot project your Western moral philosophy upon a culture that has a deep seated hatred of the Jewish people. No matter how uncomfortable it is to admit, THEY DO NOT THINK LIKE YOU AND I DO! Not trying to "other" them. It's the truth. Not everybody around the world has the capacity to envision a kumbaya scenario. Especially when they have kindergarten graduation ceremonies like these ones:





    I dunno about you, but I've never been to a children's program that's quite like those. They start the brainwashing to hate quite early.

  21. #2621
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco Kid View Post
    'What would that mean for women living there? "


    What does it mean for women to live in Texas where the some religious minority sect's version of the Bible has been codified into law to be in charge of women's bodies ?

    Weak tea.
    I am completely pro choice.

    You are beyond ridiculous to compare the situation of women in Texas to women under Arab Muslim rule.

    The general latitude and blind eye that left wing progressives give Arab/Islamic states the de jur and de facto oppress and brutalize women and LGBT is the highest order of hypocrisy. It is usually rooted in the progressive racism of lower expectations for brown people.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
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  22. #2622
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong View Post
    Has anyone proposed governing the whole area from the river to the sea as single a non-secular liberal Democratic state?
    Do the population math. It becomes Palestinian majority. The end.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  23. #2623
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    Quote Originally Posted by summit View Post
    Do the population math. It becomes Palestinian majority. The end.
    I thought I stated clearly that I was proposing a solution that wouldn’t work.

  24. #2624
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    I think your math is off

    Approx 7 million Jews in Israel vs 5M Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. Add the ones w Israeli citizenship already and the Jews still have a small majority.

  25. #2625
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcski View Post
    I think your math is off

    Approx 7 million Jews in Israel vs 5M Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. Add the ones w Israeli citizenship already and the Jews still have a small majority.
    You are forgetting 4-5M additional Palestinian "refugees" (descendants) outside of Israel/WB/Gaza claiming the "right to return," an insane point on which the Palestinians are unwilling to negotiate. Even if you magic that problem away, such a state would become majority Palestinian in a few years anyway. Remember Gaza has increased 50% in population in 17 years despite its difficult circumstances.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

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