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  1. #4026
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    Quote Originally Posted by highangle View Post
    Fortunately, the Hamas leaders surrounded themselves with rings of their handpicked bodyguards and followers, so true human shields - innocent unaligned civilians who had no hand in Hamas death games and just want to get on with living good lives - make up a tiny percentage of casualties.

    What goal is Hamas accomplishing now? They have created several generations of Israelis who will hunt them down and punish them for raping their daughters and using their own kids as bullet traps. They keep firing rockets and making war on civilians as a way of life - perhaps they just want to kill as many Jews as possible before they father many children and become martyrs for a Jew-Free Ummah [reich]? What can Hamas realistically accomplish by raping a few more hostages to death they haven't already achieved by decades of rocket attacks on population centers and random acts of violence against those least able to defend themselves? Must Hamas not sleep until every Jew is eliminated or enslaved from The River To The Sea?
    As has been discussed in depth here, Israel was starting to normalize relations with numerous muslim countries which would hurt the cause of hamas. This war has set Israel back significantly from a diplomatic/political perspective.

    You want to know why people in this thread are critiquing Israel? Its because we expect better and want a good outcome for them. Its also because they hold 90% of the power here and have the ability to cause/stop 90% of the human suffering, but are instead being baited into self harming actions by a much weaker and less powerful enemy.
    You know why no one spends much effort critiquing hamas? Its because its we all have the baseline understanding they are awful, we dont want a good outcome for them, and they can go fuck themselves.


    there still doesnt seem to be an Israeli endgame here. Its still being decided on while they dribble the rubble like a basketball. At what point is a shotclock violation called?

  2. #4027
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    "innocent unaligned civilians who had no hand in Hamas death games and just want to get on with living good lives - make up a tiny percentage of casualties."

    You have proof of this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  3. #4028
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    "innocent unaligned civilians who had no hand in Hamas death games and just want to get on with living good lives - make up a tiny percentage of casualties."

    You have proof of this?

    Oh now you demand rigour (sic)?

    Demandy McDemandFace needs his duck stroganoff, does he?

  4. #4029
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    So that's a no then.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  5. #4030
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    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    As has been discussed in depth here, Israel was starting to normalize relations with numerous muslim countries which would hurt the cause of hamas. This war has set Israel back significantly from a diplomatic/political perspective.

    You want to know why people in this thread are critiquing Israel? Its because we expect better and want a good outcome for them. Its also because they hold 90% of the power here and have the ability to cause/stop 90% of the human suffering, but are instead being baited into self harming actions by a much weaker and less powerful enemy.

    there still doesnt seem to be an Israeli endgame here.
    A big problem is no other countries so far are willing in any way to operate a peace keeping force. For example, there's a a UN Security Council resolution banning Hezbollah from operating anywhere near the Israeli border.

    Hamas's strategy of human sacrifice means anti-Israel sentiment flooding the world prevents a coordinated effort to stabilize Gaza. In order for Israel to pull out of Gaza there must be an administrative alternative to Hamas, along with Hezbollah restrained, preferably involving Arab partners.

    If on the other hand Israel fails to find partners and fails to pacify Hamas then Israel will no longer be considered a regional military power and Arab states could, probably would, align themselves with the only other regional power, Iran, which remains committed to the destruction of Israel.

  6. #4031
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    A big problem is no other countries so far are willing in any way to operate as a peace keeping force. For example, there's a a UN Security Council resolution banning Hezbollah from operating anywhere near the Israeli border. Hamas's strategy of human sacrifice means anti-Israel sentiment flooding the world prevents a coordinated effort to stabilize Gaza. In order for Israel to pull out there must be an administrative alternative to Hamas in Gaza, and Hezbollah restrained, preferably involving Arab partners.

    If on the other hand Israel fails to find partners and fails to pacify Hamas then Israel will no longer be a regional military power and Arab states could, probably would, align themselves with the only other region power, Iran, which remains committed to the destruction of Israel.
    I still say that the UN and the West should offer the Saudis a big enough carrot to get them in there as the peacekeeping force. MBS could for sure be economically/politically convinced as he wants so badly to be the reason SA rises to global prominence beyond simply having a resource that is quickly losing its value.

    Or, lets get the Kenyans. They are over in Port Au Prince warming up right now.

  7. #4032
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    I thought ‘human shields’ was one of the excuses being used to justify so many civilian casualties. When did that narrative change?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-count/678400/

    That’s a lot of not-human-shields.

  8. #4033
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    "tiny percentage"
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  9. #4034
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    Does Jong imagine Hamas is fighting out in the open, not in an urban environment, while wearing uniforms, and not civilian clothes?


    Vice-President of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) Judge Julia Sebutinde of Uganda in her dissent describes the complexity of Gaza:

    The reality of the humanitarian situation in Gaza is far more complex than South Africa suggests in its fourth Request. While the war in Gaza has undoubtedly had devastating humanitarian consequences on innocent civilians, the responsibility for the suffering of the Palestinians of Gaza does not lie only with Israel and nor is it correct to say that Israel has failed to act to alleviate that suffering. Israel has consistently maintained that as a fighting tactic, members of Hamas embed themselves amongst the civilian population often making it difficult for Israeli forces to distinguish between innocent civilians and legitimate military combatants.

    Finally, Israel has throughout the conflict warned Palestinians in Gaza of upcoming operations and has repeatedly requested the evacuation of civilians from areas of active fighting. Such actions are inconsistent with the intent to destroy the group in question. Israel has also acted to make infrastructure available at shelter sites and has facilitated the supply of shelter equipment into Gaza.


    https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/defaul...d-01-01-en.pdf

  10. #4035
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    As has been discussed in depth here, Hamas was firing rockets into Tel Aviv on a nightly basis, then they launched a large-scale coordinated military assault on a music festival and several little farm towns. This war has set the cause of Palestine back a hundred years, and made enemies of millions of Americans who didn't give a shit until they were made late for work and were forced to witness the cynicism of not only American elite universities, but their edgier sons and daughters getting sponsored to protest for lies instead of truths.

    You want to know why people in this thread are critiquing Palestine? Its because we expect better and want a good outcome for them. Its also because they hold 90% of the power here and have the ability to cause/stop 90% of the human suffering, but are instead being baited into self harming actions by their religio-political faith, their leadership, and their cultural hatreds.

    You know why no one spends much effort critiquing hamas? Its because its we all have the baseline understanding they are awful, we dont want a good outcome for them, and they can go fuck themselves. Also being reminded of the things they did and continue to do in the name of Palestine and promise to do in the future in the name of Palestine, and their large Palestinian fan base who accepts their leadership...undermines the legitimacy of "The Holy Palestinian Cause".


    there still doesnt seem to be a Palestinian endgame here except the destruction of Israel by any means at hand. Its still being decided on while they continue to hold hostages they took 10/7/23 to instigate this war by committing the greatest atrocity they were capable of inflicting on Israel's civilian population. At what point does Californiagrown stop supporting Palestinian death cults like Hamas? At what point does Californiagrown stop seeking to justify Hamas with incessant carping and hand-wringing attacks on Israel?

  11. #4036
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    So that's a no then.

    It's exactly what I said. I'm not going to bother engaging with your ass until you can ask an intelligent question instead of making potshot rhetorical demands

  12. #4037
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    The reason nobody wants to peacekeep in Gaza is the knew it is far easier to wring their hands and cry about civilian casualties without having to speak the reality of having to peacekeep a populace where most will not want such a peace when they are offered by Hamas/Iran the alternative: the deam of victory through Intifada - No Jews from the River to Sea and the eternal terror, death, and suffering that accompanies the pursuit of that unreachable goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    I still say that the UN and the West should offer the Saudis a big enough carrot to get them in there as the peacekeeping force. MBS could for sure be economically/politically convinced as he wants so badly to be the reason SA rises to global prominence beyond simply having a resource that is quickly losing its value.
    You think that if MBS had the will, that he has a competent and coercable force capable of the peacekeeping mission against Hamas especially when Iran will view it as a further opportunity to win through mayhem, death and suffering?

    Or, lets get the Kenyans. They are over in Port Au Prince warming up right now.
    Kenyans are smart, IME. No fucking way they want that bloody quagmire of a mission. Haiti looks like a winnable game of checkers compared to Gaza.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  13. #4038
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    Quote Originally Posted by summit View Post
    You think that if MBS had the will, that he has a competent and coercable force capable of the peacekeeping mission against Hamas especially when Iran will view it as a further opportunity to win through mayhem, death and suffering?
    How competent do you really have to be to spraypaint your helmet powder blue, draw a U and then an upside down U, and escort aid trucks from the border crossings to distribution centers, and prevent random gunman from seizing the aid? Not very. SA isnt going to be charged with seek-and-destroy missions to root out hamas. They are just gonna be there to distribute aid and make sure that hamas isnt interfering too much with the aid deliveries. the thought would be that NO WAY can israel have boots on the ground in gaza, even if explicitly on humanitarian detail, but maybe a nuetral 3rd party country could?


    Also, it would answer the age-old question of who does a Shia extremist hate more: a Sunni or a jew?

  14. #4039
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    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    How competent do you really have to be to spraypaint your helmet powder blue, draw a U and then an upside down U, and escort aid trucks from the border crossings to distribution centers, and prevent random gunman from seizing the aid?

    Seems like that would be way cooler than protesting on a college campus during Finals Week, dissin' Biden on social media, or gluing your hand to an interstate highway?

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