50 years to the day

[MultiVerse]

The October 7th invasion by Hamas involved thousands of heavily armed trained militants who engaged in a coordinated attack from the air, sea, and land backed by rockets fired from Gaza and Lebanon landing throughout Israeli territory. Hamas fighters killed soldiers and civilians alike and held Israeli territory for days. The IDF now admits an entire division was overrun and defeated by Hamas's invading army. Even though the innumerous horrific Hamas war crimes give cover to allow pro-Hamas Westerners to dismiss the invasion as a terrorist attack, October 7th was also a conventional act of war waged by a hybrid government actor, not just a terrorist organization

[RTsucks]

People be out here acting like hamas is ms-13 or tren de aqua. They basically lived in a prison. Ya blame the warden. Or we can help them defeat the invasion. Give israel the Qatari 747 and they can deport hamas to El Salvador. This isn't hard, Israel is just a bunch of losers who hate peace.

[MultiVerse]

They did not live in prison. That's a Hamas talking point repeatedly debunked throughout this thread. Gazans had autonomy and a willingness on the part of Israelis going back thirty years to make peace, if they wanted. They chose to raise an army and make war instead

[mcski]

The October 7th invasion by Hamas involved thousands of heavily armed trained militants who engaged in a coordinated attack from the air, sea, and land backed by rockets fired from Gaza and Lebanon landing throughout Israeli territory. Hamas fighters killed soldiers and civilians alike and held Israeli territory for days. The IDF now admits an entire division was overrun and defeated by Hamas's invading army. Even though the innumerous horrific Hamas war crimes give cover to allow pro-Hamas Westerners to dismiss the invasion as a terrorist attack, October 7th was also a conventional act of war waged by a hybrid government actor, not just a terrorist organization

After the attack, where did they set up command centers inside Israel? They left. It was an attack, not an invasion. And as much as the genocidal fear mongers in Isreal try to pretend that Hamas is an existential threat, it’s not and never has been. If they were, that would have been an actual invasion.

[Rasputin]

It was both a terrorist attack, and an invasion, however it was not an invasion with the immediate intention of occupation, though the ultimate intention was toward the goal of elimination of the State of Israel.

I agree that semantics matter in the realm of rhetoric, and have, in this event, been plied to both diminish and overstate reality by multiple parties. It is true that the first victim of war is the truth. Crafting accurate statements to entrench bias is not truth, no matter what side one identifies with in a conflict.

[RTsucks]

Yeah, Paul Sorvino had red sauce in Gaza.

[Dantheman]

While would I have vastly preferred Israels war on Hamas to be conducted in a less indescriminate manner, I do find it useful to consider what we would have done if Hamas had similarly attacked the US. Post-9/11 we started two multi-decade wars that are estimated to have killed upwards of 5 million people. If thousands of US civilians, including women, children, and elderly, had been beheaded, burned alive, shot in the head, blown up with RPGs, and gang-raped, all of it streamed live on social media, and hundreds more taken hostage and paraded through the streets of Gaza to cheering crowds, I feel entirely confident predicting that we would have turned every inch of Gaza into rubble within a week.

Does that justify everything Israel has done? Surely not. But, let's not pretend that we would have acted with more restraint.

[MultiVerse]

Hamas did not leave. Hamas documents show that they believed they would conquer Israel on Oct 7th. They held out in several Israeli kibbutzim and border towns until the IDF was finally able to uproot them. We now know that Yahya Al-Sinwar believed that Hezbollah would invade from the north, while jihadist groups invaded from the West Bank, that non-Jewish Israelis would rise up against Jewish the population, and that young Israelis would flee the country. All of which, according to Hamas leadership would cause the Israeli army to collapse. That was was plan. Even after their original plan failed, they continue to fire rockets at Israel and continue the use of their backup human shield strategy in Gaza

[RTsucks]

So when does Israel invade Iraq? Could always use some more imperial life in the emerald city. Or are they hopping straight to j6 type shit? Bibi over there watching a snail crawl along a razor blade.

[MultiVerse]

Iraqi jihadist groups fired missiles and launched drones against Israel too. Iraqi Jihadists even killed three American service members using drones

[RTsucks]

Mission accomplished baby. 'Srael fuck yeah!

[californiagrown]

Word on the street is that trump is pissed at Bibi for backchanneling with trumps staff, and so trump has cutoff communication with bibi and wont be supportive of israel going forward. trump sees bibi as disloyal now. And now its coupled with trumps visits to arab countries who have seized the opportunity to shower trump with big lavish celebrations, stroking his ego, blatantly bribing him and showering the whol affair with $$$$$. how is bibi gonna compete with that? I wouldnt be surprised to see america turn away from Israel in the next 3 years, and towards KSA, UAE, etc under the guise of "we dont want to get involved in israels war". Seems so obvious in hindsight- trump can easily be swooned and swayed by bribes, personal enrichement, and lavish displayes of luxury... and who does that better than Middle East oil barons?

[MultiVerse]

Too many people have last war brain because they're stuck in the 2000s. Trump rose to power in no small part due to that sentiment. As a result of America's self-inflicted disaster the United States is retreating form the world resulting in excessive aggression from state actors like Putin and Hamas. Russia against Ukraine,, October 7th, Pakistan vs India, and probably soon China invading Taiwan are all in the shadow of Iraq. The aughts and now the tens too are over. Knee-jerk reactions against superficial resemblance to the past are helping to usher in a darker more authoritarian period. Welcome to the jungle. We're not going to like what comes next

[RTsucks]

At least we got full self driving chopstiX out of it. And a jumbo jet for a liberry. And the goddamn cannucks ain't fucking us on eggs and butter. 'Sraelica FUCK YEAH!

[Rasputin]

<p>

The October 7th invasion by Hamas involved thousands of heavily armed trained militants who engaged in a coordinated attack from the air, sea, and land backed by rockets fired from Gaza and Lebanon landing throughout Israeli territory. Hamas fighters killed soldiers and civilians alike and held Israeli territory for days. The IDF now admits an entire division was overrun and defeated by Hamas&#39;s invading army. Even though the innumerous horrific Hamas war crimes give cover to allow pro-Hamas Westerners to dismiss the invasion as a terrorist attack, October 7th was also a conventional act of war waged by a hybrid government actor, not just a terrorist organization

</p>
<p>
Well if I was in err as to the scope of the objective of the invasion, I stand corrected. Certainly if that was their intention, it was a poorly conceived plan to acheive the goal of overthrowing the State of Israel, and even more reprehensible than incompetent.&nbsp;</p>
<p>
I am quite sure that the intransigence of the warring parties will not decrease through force of arms. Israel will not surrender the land so long as it is valued over human life, and Iran will not cease to support its erradication as long as the Shiite clerics hold power. Soon enough the antichrist will enable the Jewish orthodoxy to build the third temple, and the end of the world will come soon after. I would prefer not, but we are headed that way; the voices of peace are drowned out by the hard hearted and belicose.</p>
<p>
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<p>
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[mcski]

[ATTACH][emoji641]12[emoji[emoji642]4[emoji642]][emoji641]4[/ATTACH]

Well attachments are still fukt I guess

[RTsucks]

Accelerationist millenarianism, dominionism, the profit gospel we got it all in one big beautiful bombing campaign. Cue the people calling me an antisemite while refusing to call anyone, especially nazis, nazis. We got fun and games, we're in the jungle baby! The one good thing I can think of to say about hamas, they don't have a fucking meme coin. If they get that, a podcast, an energy drink and micronized beef tallow pills w/ SARMs then I vote for nuking the bastards.

[summit]

Does that justify everything Israel has done? Surely not. But, let'ss not pretend that we would have acted with more restraint.

I think more the point, it is not just the US that would have been less restrained. Essentially any country with at least Israel's capability would have acted with less restraint. Some with far far far less restraint.

[mcski]

Idk, if you compare our response as far as engagement in Afghanistan, I’d say it was much more restrained as far as wholesale destruction. Same from Iraq. Not that we win any awards, but the carpet bombing type whole scale destruction wasn’t the same as what we are seeing in Gaza.

[Dantheman]

I think more the point, it is not just the US that would have been less restrained. Essentially any country with at least Israel's capability would have acted with less restraint. Some with far far far less restraint.

For sure.

Idk, if you compare our response as far as engagement in Afghanistan, I’d say it was much more restrained as far as wholesale destruction. Same from Iraq. Not that we win any awards, but the carpet bombing type whole scale destruction wasn’t the same as what we are seeing in Gaza.

Gaza is just exceptionally densely populated, tiny, and has a microscope pointed on it comparatively. We leveled many, many square miles of both countries.

Even going by Gaza health ministry numbers 55k Gazans have died. Iraq and Afghanistan wars killed 50-100x that, and Iraq had no justification whatsoever.

[RTsucks]

Those are rookie numbers. Never forget: paragliders!

[summit]

Gaza is called carpet bombing when GPS precision bombs are used from tactical aircraft?

We used B-52Hs and B-1Bs strategic bombers in Iraq/Afghanistan. Sometimes with precision munitions, sometimes not (although we weren&#39;t dumb bombing cities).

Russia bombed Syria with Tu-22M strategic bombers dropping mass payloads of dumb bombs and cluster munitions on multiple cities. Didn&#39;t see mcski out protesting there. Russia also used MLRS saturation bombardment (rocket artillery) to level populated areas. But yea formations of 6 Tu-22s 150,000lbs of bombs on a Syrian cities in a single strike, more than Israel has dropped in the entire Gaza war, and then Russia doing it for over a dozen strikes, that might be carpet bombing, but it doesn&#39;t compare to Vietnam, much less Korea or WWII (where the term came from).

War is horrible. Terms have meaning.

Russia MLRS levels a Syrian Town

[J. Barron DeJong]

They&#39;re not carpet bombing, they&#39;re just leveling the territory with precision:

By October 2024, Israel said it bombed 40,000 locations^[4] in the Gaza Strip (which is 360 km²). By one estimate, as of April 2024 the bomb tonnage dropped on Gaza was more than 70,000 tonnes,^[5] surpassing the combined bomb tonnage dropped on Dresden, Hamburg, and London in World War II.^[6]Satellite imagery showed at least 69% of all buildings were damaged or destroyed,^[7][8]which surpasses the scale of destruction in Cologne and Dresden and approaches that of Hamburg during World War II.

[RTsucks]

Oh for fucks sake, summit's gonna make me go into a downward spiral about those apple terms and if terms are terms with terms or only in war.

[m2711c]

preferred nomenclature, dude.