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  1. #2526
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    First, what the fuck is wrong with you? You've been here for over 3 years. Stop using dark text if you want anyone to read your post you fucking JONG.

    Second, you can shove the apologetics up your ass. People do need to be able to walk to class, learn in class, and live in a dorm without being screamed at, bullied, and harassed by people who attack them for immutable characteristics. That is what makes a University different from a public forum. These are not rules affecting measured debates or opinion expressed in well argued position papers, but instead social aggression dressed up as what passes for political activism: extreme and organized verbal attacks, physical intimidation, and even violence directed at certain people trying to exist in their daily job at university: walking, attending class, eating, studying.

    Universities have been heavily criticized for curtailing speech SELECTIVELY. That is the point here. Harvard scored the worst in the US for freedom of speech. But certain groups get to act freely on certain topics flouting the rules while being immune from receiving the same treatment in return, other groups do not enjoy those protections, in this case, Jews.

    The point here is that there is incredibly selective enforcement of speech codes. Special privelages are being granted. MIT, for example, stated they would not enforce violations suspending foreign students, thereby allowing foreign anti-Jewish activists to harass Jews, which they even had a nice little rally about mocking the MIT administration.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
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  2. #2527
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    https://www.newsweek.com/israel-hama...ar-idf-1849928

    i hope they get this guy and get those merkeevas out out of khan younis until they drop a few more bombs. too many hamasisis vids dropping today of tank hits with rpgs.

    the sooner hamas leadership is gone the sooner we can find out if anyone wants to live in peace or not.
    j'ai des grands instants de lucididididididididi

  3. #2528
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    Regarding black text: I normally screenshot when I can to avoid exactly that. I have to post from my phone and changing copied and pasted text from it is a pain. Sorry though.

    I agree that free speech is being applied selectively. They shouldn’t do that. But also, your argument that people shouldn’t be allowed to harass Jews isn’t necessarily at odds with the idea that whether something falls under ‘free speech’ is context dependent.

    For example, this statement is not necessarily a contradiction to their congressional testimony:

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    Though in practice they could certainly end up being contradictory.

  4. #2529
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    Using the logic laid out above by Gay, there should be no context dependence about genocide. Genocide is extreme violence.

    "Is calling for genocide against Jews OK?"

    That is a simple yes/no, not a context dependent.

    What is extremely clear is that Gay is out to protect people who make calls for genocide using phraseologies that grant plausible deniability. "Oh what I actually meant was...." usually something claiming that eradicating Israel isn't antisemetic or similar two faced bullshit.

    She is fine with "From the River to the Sea...." as everyone knows what it means but the shouters of it will hide behind alternate meanings when facing consequences.
    These administrators might not be fine with "Gas the Jews" or other flagrant violations, in principle, except it appears the latter have not been punished either so they are hypocrites because they refuse to apply their standards even when it is blatantly clear.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  5. #2530
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco Kid View Post
    Not really accurate. We kicked their ass so badly that the few remaining werewoves never got any traction. Then we occupied and weeded out the Nazis while we fed, housed and helped them rebuid the government from the ground up with Germans who were not Nazis. So far the only plan I see from Bibi is what my meme suggests. Bounce the rubble, go home and wait for the new terrorists he created to strike. And for Bibi maybe stay out of jail.
    Hmmm... Almost sounds like you agree that the Allied strategies were successful then? Sweet! Glad we could find some common ground. Now would you be ok with Israel applying similar winning strategies to the current war? As in crush, root out Hamas personnel (who are legit Nazis), and rebuild (with Palestinians who actually desire peace with Israel).

  6. #2531
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    Quote Originally Posted by summit View Post
    Using the logic laid out above by Gay, there should be no context dependence about genocide. Genocide is extreme violence.

    "Is calling for genocide against Jews OK?"

    That is a simple yes/no, not a context dependent.

    What is extremely clear is that Gay is out to protect people who make calls for genocide using phraseologies that grant plausible deniability. "Oh what I actually meant was...." usually something claiming that eradicating Israel isn't antisemetic or similar two faced bullshit.

    She is fine with "From the River to the Sea...." as everyone knows what it means but the shouters of it will hide behind alternate meanings when facing consequences.
    These administrators might not be fine with "Gas the Jews" or other flagrant violations, in principle, except it appears the latter have not been punished either so they are hypocrites because they refuse to apply their standards even when it is blatantly clear.
    I had a longer reply written, but then my phone died and I lost it, so…

    The question was specifically about official school policy, and as the MIT speaker said at the start, if the calling of genocide was directed at students on campus it would violate the policy, but just a public statement doesn’t necessarily violate policy.

    FWIW, regarding my personal sympathies, while I don’t plan on attending either a pro-Israel or pro-Palestine rally, if I was forced to choose to attend one right now, I’d be choosing to attend the pro-Israel one based on what I’ve seen going on. Also, while I think anti-Semitic and anti-Islamic hate should both be denounced, anti-semitism appears to be the much bigger problem right now.

    Regarding ‘from the river to the sea’, I wouldn’t make the assumption that everyone knows what it means:

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    https://x.com/izatabaro/status/17324...sR_NcRK2VkCfkg

    People are stupid, especially college kids.

  7. #2532
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    If a student calls for the genocide of a group, and members of that group are students, then how is it not directed at students? This is asinine hair splitting.

    Better believe the people organizing and leading these "protests" know what they are saying... especially Hamas funded SJP.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  8. #2533
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    Quote Originally Posted by summit View Post
    If a student calls for the genocide of a group, and members of that group are students, then how is it not directed at students? This is asinine hair splitting.

    Better believe the people organizing and leading these "protests" know what they are saying... especially Hamas funded SJP.
    I took it to mean publicly saying there should be a genocide of Jews could be referring to Jews in Israel (which Stefanik sort of alludes to when she brings up chants of Intifada), which wouldn’t necessarily break school policy, but that if that if a call for genocide included, or was directed at, Jewish students then it would break policy.

    But also as the school presidents noted, this is all hypothetical, there haven’t been calls for genocide on campus. There have been chants of ‘Intifada’ which are not necessarily a call for genocide (though some could mean it that way). And anti-Semitic actions on campus have been referred to, and are being processed through, the schools disciplinary channels. It’s doesn’t seem to me like it’s being ignored.

  9. #2534
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    50 years to the day

    Quote Originally Posted by summit View Post
    She is fine with "From the River to the Sea...." as everyone knows what it means but the shouters of it will hide behind alternate meanings .
    I have no issue with From the a river to the Sea because it’s context dependent. At its base it’s about one state (ie no israel) but outside of Hamas perhaps, it’s not always a call for genocide. Just no more israel as a state. Big difference and is NOT the same thing. I’ve heard the phrase for a long time from Palestinians i know and never once was it said as code for annihilating Jews in the region. Context. You may not like it but it does have alternate meanings / interpretations.
    Last edited by mcski; 12-06-2023 at 06:30 PM.

  10. #2535
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    Hmmm... Almost sounds like you agree that the Allied strategies were successful then? Sweet! Glad we could find some common ground. Now would you be ok with Israel applying similar winning strategies to the current war? As in crush, root out Hamas personnel (who are legit Nazis), and rebuild (with Palestinians who actually desire peace with Israel).
    There's a big difference between ww2 and today. The Dresden fire bombing and the nuclear bombs dropped on Japan would probably be considered war crimes today.

    And to me, it's amazing that there were more killed civilians in Gaza in a month and a half than in Ukraine in a year and a half.

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  11. #2536
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    And to me, it's amazing that there were more killed civilians in Gaza in a month and a half than in Ukraine in a year and a half.
    This is yet another very dishonest comparison between numbers arrived at in very different ways, and under very different circumstances. Rod is comparing Gaza Health Ministry's self reported numbers while ignoring the fact Ukrainians killed in occupied Russian territory go unreported. Tens of thousands were killed in Mariupol alone. Hundreds of thousands are missing. Mass civilian graves are typically discovered wherever Ukraine liberates territory. Even the U.N. says recorded civilian toll in Ukraine is just the 'tip of the iceberg.'

  12. #2537
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    This is yet another very dishonest comparison between numbers arrived at in very different ways, and under very different circumstances. Rod is comparing Gaza Health Ministry's self reported numbers while ignoring the fact Ukrainians killed in occupied Russian territory go unreported. Tens of thousands were killed in Mariupol alone. Hundreds of thousands are missing. Mass civilian graves are typically discovered wherever Ukraine liberates territory. Even the U.N. says recorded civilian toll in Ukraine is just the 'tip of the iceberg.'
    Agree on the Ukrainian statistics, but regarding Palestinian numbers, Israeli officials have been giving numbers very close to those of the Gaza Health Ministry.

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    https://x.com/shashj/status/17324194...sR_NcRK2VkCfkg

  13. #2538
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcski View Post
    I have no issue with From the a river to the Sea because it’s context dependent. At its base it’s about one state (ie no israel) but outside of Hamas perhaps, it’s not always a call for genocide. Just no more israel as a state. Big difference and is NOT the same thing. I’ve heard the phrase for a long time from Palestinians i know and never once was it said as code for annihilating Jews in the region. Context. You may not like it but it does have alternate meanings / interpretations.
    While many will argue it's a distinction without a difference between calling for genocide and calling for violent removal, the main thing is that you've described the core issue. Palestinians are repeatedly given the opportunity for a state of their own but that's not what they want unless it also means the removal of Jews from the Middle East.

    The best deal they could have made was in 1935 when Arabs were offered 80% of the land in Israel with only 20% for the Jews. And they still turned it down. For more than a hundred years Arabs in the region tried to violently remove Jews from the Middle East. Palestinians keep going to war against the Jews and losing, ending up on ever smaller pieces of land. Maybe someday they'll come up with a better strategy. Perhaps starting with a less violent slogan.

  14. #2539
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong View Post
    Agree on the Ukrainian statistics, but regarding Palestinian numbers, Israeli officials have been giving numbers very close to those of the Gaza Health Ministry.
    Right, but I didn't argue the Gaza Health Ministry number were wrong in total. I argued the numbers are arrived at in very different ways. The Gaza Health Ministry doesn't distinguish between combatants and civilians. Hamas themselves are publishing hundreds of videos with combatants wearing civilian clothes. Whereas in Ukraine there is a clear distinction between civilians and soldiers.

  15. #2540
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    Hmmm... Almost sounds like you agree that the Allied strategies were successful then? Sweet! Glad we could find some common ground. Now would you be ok with Israel applying similar winning strategies to the current war? As in crush, root out Hamas personnel (who are legit Nazis), and rebuild (with Palestinians who actually desire peace with Israel).
    A lot of people smarter than you and me have debated the justification and effectiveness of WWII firebombing residential areas in cities with good opinions on both sides. I'm still waiting to hear how Bibi's boys and girls are going to clean up their mess or if they even plan on having a role. Sadly, continued terrorist actions post Bouncing the Rubble will favor Bibi politically.
    Seeker of Truth. Dispenser of Wisdom. Protector of the Weak. Avenger of Evil.

  16. #2541
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    Right, but I didn't argue the Gaza Health Ministry number were wrong in total. I argued the numbers are arrived at in very different ways. The Gaza Health Ministry doesn't distinguish between combatants and civilians. Hamas themselves are publishing hundreds of videos with combatants wearing civilian clothes. Whereas in Ukraine there is a clear distinction between civilians and soldiers.
    I took the statement ‘Gaza Health Ministry's self reported numbers’ as suggesting they were suspect.

    Yes, they are quoting all casualties, not just civilian.

  17. #2542
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    Apparently a lot of money was made by short sellers of Israeli stocks in the weeks leading up to October 7.

  18. #2543
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    Hmmm... Almost sounds like you agree that the Allied strategies were successful then? Sweet! Glad we could find some common ground.
    The Dresden bombing to this day are used to establish a moral equivalence between the Allies and Nazis, especially by Holocaust deniers, just as Israels bombing is used to justify October 7th along with chanting "from the river to the sea." It's such a bad argument that I can't tell if you're trying to troll us?

    Quote Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong View Post
    I took the statement ‘Gaza Health Ministry's self reported numbers’ as suggesting they were suspect.

    Yes, they are quoting all casualties, not just civilian.
    Yeah, that's why when people say the Health Ministry's numbers are roughly accurate since they align with other counts, like the Israeli numbers in your example above, it's because other counts total combatants and civilians.
    Last edited by MultiVerse; 12-06-2023 at 08:15 PM.

  19. #2544
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    Quote Originally Posted by ötzi View Post
    Apparently a lot of money was made by short sellers of Israeli stocks in the weeks leading up to October 7.
    Among many other things, Hamas leadership are hedgfunders. Their grift (and graft) is so obvious that one of the reasons they go to war against Israel is to shift Palestinian focus away from them. The great Palestinian tragedy is that they've always been poorly led.

  20. #2545
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    I have a feeling that we'll discover that some proportion of the short sellers were Israelis. If that turns out to be the case it will be very interesting and lead to a lot of questions.

  21. #2546
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    Quote Originally Posted by ötzi View Post
    I have a feeling that we'll discover that some proportion of the short sellers were Israelis. If that turns out to be the case it will be very interesting and lead to a lot of questions.
    Seems like a perfectly rational financial decision. I don't see much backlash coming of it.
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  22. #2547
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post
    Seems like a perfectly rational financial decision. I don't see much backlash coming of it.
    The implication is that they had advance knowledge of an attack.

    It would cause backlash if Israeli’s were found to have bet on an attack happening rather than raising the alarm, wouldn’t it? Or even if they did raise the alarm and bet on it in addition.

    (Not saying that’s actually the case, but that’s the proposed scenario, right?)

  23. #2548
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    Or worse.

    I believe there are people in Israel who welcomed this war. Did any of those people know about the impending attacks and choose not to do anything but make some money is the question.

    Hamas definitely had intel on Israeli defenses, facilities etc. that couldn't have been gleaned by some guy picking olives. Where did they get that info?

  24. #2549
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    Quote Originally Posted by ötzi View Post
    I have a feeling that we'll discover that some proportion of the short sellers were Israelis. If that turns out to be the case it will be very interesting and lead to a lot of questions.
    A feeling based on what??? That's quite the accusation. And I imagine if such an outrageous thing was true, people would get in huge trouble of betting on massacres and rape, at least if they were on the Israel side and not the Palestinian side.

    Same issue around 9/11 where it was speculated that terrorists or their friends did option trades based on their knowledge: https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/503645?seq=24

    Monitoring options would be an interesting early warning system for attacks...
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
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  25. #2550
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    I hope I'm wrong summit. I said it's just a feeling, I have no intel.

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