50 years to the day

[J. Barron DeJong]

Watching Cono go from “I learned my lesson after being wrong on Iraq; No more wars! Don’t support Ukraine, end the war!” To bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran. Is entertaining. Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Just wolfing down the propagandist pablum of the day.

[MultiVerse]

Tonight's Munchausen by proxy

[Cono Este]

The main stream media is really showings its true colors with this. They keep talking about Israel running out of ammo for the iron dome and how great the Iranian rockets are. Fucking deplorable. Same with this ice shit. Every fucking major network is telling the same lies. Amazing disconnect.

[The Nuclear Option]

Dear Lord Cono and Summit hate alternative viewpoints with the burning intensity of a thousand suns.How dare they hear from Hamas, Iran, or third parties.Only Trump and Netanyayu should have a voice in the United States under Zionist Control

[RTsucks]

Maybe it's just me, but cono sounds like an ai version of a maga version of the smashing pumpkins.

[summit]

How dare they hear from Hamas, Iran, or third parties.

I think generally that dissenting views are important, even if I don't agree with them, in a balanced approach. But unlike you, I don't think actual literal terrorist voices matter. We don't need to hear poison from people who literally want to destroy us like Hamas and organs of Khomemei's government. We didn't need to hear from balanced perspectives from Bin Laden, Hitler or Tojo either.

Only Trump and Netanyayu should have a voice in the United States under Zionist Control

OK, so, now you are spouting "the Jews are behind the curtain controlling the US" bullshit. So now you have jumped across the line into pretty blatant antisemitism. Be better.

[Cono Este]

The nuclear option.

We need the Iranian people to rise up, or this goes on for another 50 yrs. Leave it to you, to give the Middle East a false sense of security, victory, while the final rounds are incoming.

Next, we’ll tell the people of Tehran not to believe trump, and go about their day as usual.

[civilcoconut]

I think generally that dissenting views are important, even if I don't agree with them, in a balanced approach. But unlike you, I don't think actual literal terrorist voices matter. We don't need to hear poison from people who literally want to destroy us like Hamas and organs of Khomemei's government. We didn't need to hear from balanced perspectives from Bin Laden, Hitler or Tojo either.

We absolutely need to hear it. Not in a balanced way, but we need to hear it and understand it. Otherwise we are just relying on a third party to interpret, shape it and feed it to us to suit their narrative.
Especially if we are talking about going to war with another country we need to hear their actual words and intentions.

[civilcoconut]

The US tried the ole "rise up and overthrow your oppressors" thing in Iraq. It didn't work out so well for the Kurds. So unless there is going to be a concerted, coordinated intervention by Israel/US/EU I cant see that working. Bibi has called for it, but is anyone willing to be that involved? Or do they just want a weakened Iran with a collapsed government and internal strife? Someone would obviously have to step in a secure all of the nuclear material and technology in that instance and again, who is going to do that?

Also, my assumption is that any action in Iran by the US is either going to require using the War Powers Act or a declaration of war by Congress. WPA gives the president 60 days AFAIK and seems like it would require some actual action from Iran against US forces to use. I sort of can't believe we are just whistling right past these details as Trump threatens to kill Khomeni and pull out the MOP.

[californiagrown]

I think generally that dissenting views are important, even if I don't agree with them, in a balanced approach. But unlike you, I don't think actual literal terrorist voices matter. We don't need to hear poison from people who literally want to destroy us like Hamas and organs of Khomemei's government. We didn't need to hear from balanced perspectives from Bin Laden, Hitler or Tojo either.

When we hear from hamas on NPR (through their mouthpieces and allies), they talk about the horrors of living through a war with israel. This would be somewhat akin to hearing from spokespeople for Al-Sadr back in Iraq about the horrors civilians were facing while living through a war with America. It is good perspective to have that WAR IS HELL, and the people we and our allies are bombing and making suffer with our military campaign are not just hardened soldiers... they are women, children, and young men who just want it all to stop. It brings the humanity of it all home to the viewer/listener/reader because god knows the US/Israeli government will not talk about the inhumanity of their actions, only about the inhumanity of opposing side. By the same token, its also good to hear evil from the horses mouth, as that can drive home the validity of a military campaign as opposed to just hearing from official government sources about the enemies intentions.

A pretty decent point made by Titra in that NPR interview you posted a ways back, was that Israel had/has a vested interest in the US-Iran nuclear talks failing. They are tired of kicking the can down the road on that (20+ years now), and they would much rather suck the US in with them on a war to take out the Iranian regime once and for all to not only stop the nuclear threat, but to also shut down the proxy war funding. It is for sure something to think about- was this attack done because Iran was so close to nuclear breakout, or was it done because a nuclear deal was close to being done that would have kept the threat to Israel at the status quo? You can bet your ass that neither the US govt or the Israeli govt are going to pose that as a possible scenario here.

IME, people who think that national NPR is hyper-partisan, are hyper-partisan themselves or have extremely strong beliefs which they reflexively recoil in disgust at being challenged on. Local NPR on the other hand... i've heard some crazy shit on my local seattle station lol.

[liv2ski]

Iranian Supreme Leader declares 'the battle begins' and warns Israel about 'great surprise… that the world will remember for centuries'

So a nuke for Tel Aviv? Inquiring minds want to know. Just take out Nuttyahoo would ya.

[The Nuclear Option]

I think generally that dissenting views are important, even if I don't agree with them, in a balanced approach. But unlike you, I don't think actual literal terrorist voices matter. We don't need to hear poison from people who literally want to destroy us like Hamas and organs of Khomemei's government. We didn't need to hear from balanced perspectives from Bin Laden, Hitler or Tojo either. OK, so, now you are spouting "the Jews are behind the curtain controlling the US" bullshit. So now you have jumped across the line into pretty blatant antisemitism. Be better.

Straight to the antisemitism insult. Saying that the US and Trump is being led on a leash is Antisemitic?!?? Israel is a country, not a peoples. zionists may think they are one in the same, but they are not.
100% Slander. I have 0 problem with anyone because of their heritage or religion (other than all religions are tools of Satan). I generally like Jews and have more than a couple Jewish friends. Has nothing at all to do with Judaism. Has everything to do with feeling like Israel has more control of this country than I as a citizen do.
YOU are the one who needs to be Better.
Seriously, go fuck yourself for that.

[mcski]

Being left out of all the hand wringing about Iran having Nukes is the widely accepted fact that Israel has plenty of their own, so perhaps this potential for MAD makes the nuke biz less of an offensive threat than it is claimed to be and more a case of I’ve got mine and protecting their advantage.

[liv2ski]

In a World of hypocrisy, the laughs rule the day...

[The Nuclear Option]

Let me help Summit with the math.Set A: JewsA = {all Jewish people}Set B: ZionistsB = {people who support Zionism}Subset Example:If all Zionists were Jewish, then B ? A.But in reality, not all Zionists are Jewish, and not all Jews are Zionist, so neither set is a subset of the other.

[The Nuclear Option]

Word of the day. Bulverism.

[MultiVerse]

The US tried the ole "rise up and overthrow your oppressors" thing in Iraq. It didn't work out so well for the Kurds

You're joking right? The Kurds went from violently repression under Saddam to being a significant ethnic group and political force in Iraq. They now have a semi-autonomous region called the Kurdistan Region, with its own government and parliament, and they also hold significant positions within the Iraqi federal government.

[mcski]

You skipped over a few steps of general civil war that expanded to Syria and multiple rug pulls on the Kurds. But yeah, regime change worked. Iraq is such a nicer place now. LMAO

[MultiVerse]

It is a nicer place now, moron. And the civil war was happening before America's intervention. Saddam Hussein's regime even used chemical weapons against the Kurds, starting in the 1980s

[civilcoconut]

You're joking right? The Kurds went from violently repression under Saddam to being a significant ethnic group and political force in Iraq. They now have a semi-autonomous region called the Kurdistan Region, with its own government and parliament, and they also hold significant positions within the Iraqi federal government.

I was referencing the 1991 Iraqi uprisings.

To my point, the Kurds are better off now because the US military invaded and changed the conditions on the ground in 2003 such that they could establish what they have now. My take is that barring some sort of similar intervention by non-Iranian forces, a similar fate would await any Iranian revolution that does not recieve significant outside support.

[dan_pdx]

Iranian Supreme Leader declares 'the battle begins' and warns Israel about 'great surprise… that the world will remember for centuries'

So a nuke for Tel Aviv? Inquiring minds want to know. Just take out Nuttyahoo would ya.

I think the great surprise is they ain't got shit. Kind of like Saddam Hussein's mother of all battles.

[MultiVerse]

Oh, so you're ignoring everything that came before and after like Saddam using Kurdish children during the Iran-Iraq war for mine sweeping and other suicide missions. Also, Following the 1991 Gulf War, no-fly zones were established in northern and southern Iraq to protect Kurdish and Shiite populations from Iraqi government forces, respectively. These zones, enforced by the US and UK, aimed to prevent attacks and provide humanitarian relief, particularly for the Kurds who had faced significant repression under Saddam Hussein's regime

[Bunion 2020]

I have no concrete view as to what the US should do, allow, encourage.

There is a chance to entirely re-make the ME and I want to be damn sure what we do is what we should do, for the long view.

I don't trust Netenyahu or Trump when it comes to that.

They only seek to consolidate power or score political points.

[highangle]

Being left out of all the hand wringing about Iran having Nukes is the widely accepted fact that Israel has plenty of their own, so perhaps this potential for MAD makes the nuke biz less of an offensive threat than it is claimed to be and more a case of I’ve got mine and protecting their advantage.

You say that like it's a bad thing?

[Bunion 2020]

You think that more nations with Nuclear weapons is a good thing?