50 years to the day

[bennymac]

“As the conflict stretched into day two, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin announced Sunday that the U.S. military is moving an aircraft carrier strike group and military aircraft closer to Israel as a show of support and that it will also supply Israel with munitions and other military supplies as soon as possible.

Sen.Tommy Tuberville has in place a months long blockade on at least 300 military nominees, including top officers who would command forces in the Middle East. He said his effort is in protest of the Defense Department policy that gives time off and reimbursements for service members and their family members seeking abortions out of state.”

JFC - Get your backwards thinking the fuck out of the way

[LongShortLong]

“As the conflict stretched into day two, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin announced Sunday that the U.S. military is moving an aircraft carrier strike group and military aircraft closer to Israel as a show of support and that it will also supply Israel with munitions and other military supplies as soon as possible.

Surely more munitions will produce peace. Bomb a few more buildings in Gaza or a few hundred. Blow up a bunch of families. How many fathers and daughters do we kill to make peace? How many homes do we flatten? How many businesses? This is an evil path. This is the recruitment drive for the next terror attack.

[subtle plague]

Good thing for the world your track record of predicting foreign affairs developments is around 0%

Cono is always good for an n+1

[summit]

Walking back nothing. A settlement is a military object of violence, just as a tank. It's in fact worse, as the tank typically moves away after some time. Similarly a settler - soldier comparison applies.

Nice. Thanks for the clarity. You are right! You don’t reject violence.

You picked a side and relabeled the other side’s civilians as actual valid primary military targets, as you put it. Valid attacks are therefore not violence in your mind. Hitler and Putin would be proud of your moral flexibility.

Think that is hyperbole? Let’s examine your justification.

You call children, civilians, primary targets because of where they live and what they are: Jews where you don't want them. Valid to exterminate in your mind; that is not violence to you.

That makes you a bigoted terrorist sympathizer who would aid and abet mass murder and ethnic cleansing. Another word for that is genocide. Your words support and give comfort to enemies of civilized humanity. You are literally no different than a Nazi sympathizer. The Nazis were also good at dressing up cold blooded murder as necessity and wrapping it with smug moralism.

People like you deserve to have their bullshit called out. You are worse than Rod.

I’ve met your kind before. I went to school with a guy who spouted how the victims who died on September 11th in New York were valid military targets because they were agents of the capitalist system victimizing the Islamist world that Osama Bin Laden was fighting for. Tourists? Contributing. Fire fighters and paramedics crushed by the collapse? They were there to save the engines and crew of the capitalist ship. All valid targets to be murdered. Children on the hijacked airliners? They were gonna grow up to be enemies. He also thought it would be just fine if the Israel was destroyed and the Jews pushed into the sea, which is the stated goal of Hamas. (Since someone will ask, he was a from a well-to-do WASP family and claimed to be a neo-Marxist which made little sense).

Fuck him.

Fuck the monsters who went door to door executing and kidnapping, torturing and raping the young, old, and defenseless.

And fuck you.

[dunfree]

Surely more munitions will produce peace. Bomb a few more buildings in Gaza or a few hundred. Blow up a bunch of families. How many fathers and daughters do we kill to make peace? How many homes do we flatten? How many businesses? This is an evil path. This is the recruitment drive for the next terror attack.

Back in 2014 the Israel plan to reoccupy Gaza was leaked, 5 years, 100s of Israeli soldiers dead, 1000s of Palistinan civilians not counting Hamas (20k). I’d suggest taking the over on those now.

Oslo 1 was supposed to be done 25 years ago, that didn’t work. The current status of Gaza doesn’t work - for Palestinians or Israelis (ISF estimate is now 1000 Israeli dead) We got here because Bibi kept kicking the can. It’s be nice if there weren’t a shitty choice, but that’s not where we are.

[subtle plague]

Summit seems to be enraged?

You can codemn fucked up Terrorists and still don't think settlements by religious Zionist zealots in the westbank were a good idea.

Same as thinking that you can codemn 9/11 and think that giving the mudschaheddin stinger rockets and Promote radical Islam in the 80s was a bad idea. Or invading Irak.

And btw. Europe gets the refugees.... like always. Thanks a lot religious nut Jobs and hardliners of the World.

[riser4]

Summit seems to be enraged?

You can codemn fucked up Terrorists and still don't think settlements by religious Zionist zealots in the westbank were a good idea.

Same as thinking that you can codemn 9/11 and think that giving the mudschaheddin stinger rockets and Promote radical Islam in the 80s was a bad idea. Or invading Irak.

And btw. Europe gets the refugees.... like always. Thanks a lot religious nut Jobs and hardliners of the World.

You're not wrong. However, Israel must never give up the Golan heights. I fully support their occupation of that. They need it strategically both for the water and militarily.

[summit]

Summit seems to be enraged?

More like disgusted by the fairly blatant justification of terrorism based on race/religion while falsely claiming to reject violence.

It is exactly what Rod does in the Ukraine thread. He implicitly justifies Russian aggression while saying he just wants peace.

When Rod and Percy justifies Ukrainian genocide nobody raises an eyebrow at the justified response of calling them on their BS and or just saying "Fuck Putin and fuck you!"

You can codemn fucked up Terrorists and still don't think settlements by religious Zionist zealots in the westbank were a good idea.

Sure!

Saying they aren't a good idea (we agree) is different than saying that children are soldiers because they happen to be the wrong religion or color vs where they are living.

That is exactly what LSL is saying when he says settlers are equivalent to soldiers and their very existence in their homes justifies their destruction as a valid military target. That is revolting and deserved the callout.

Remember, he also blames these Israelis for their own deaths, rapes, and kidnappings. Dunno why he would get a pass on that BS.

[ex-powderbroker]

strong shout out to my friends on social media.

[LongShortLong]

So, a century or two ago, America had an Indian Problem. We kept making peace with them, making treaties, and giving them (marginal) land to live on. They thanked us by semi-regularly raiding our settlements, kidnapping our women. etc. We'd send the US Army to pacify things, and all was well again.

Now, with the lens of history, most people call our actions unjust. Many also label it a genocide. If US actions are too emotionally close, condemn Canada, or Mexico, or any European nation for their colonial crimes.

When are we going to stop?

[ex-powderbroker]

who is we? if you ask the terrorists whose charter is about the destruction of Israel and who just murdered a few hundred kids at a rave, never.

there can progress without apologizing for these people, you should try it.

[rod9301]

So, a century or two ago, America had an Indian Problem. We kept making peace with them, making treaties, and giving them (marginal) land to live on. They thanked us by semi-regularly raiding our settlements, kidnapping our women. etc. We'd send the US Army to pacify things, and all was well again.

Now, with the lens of history, most people call our actions unjust. Many also label it a genocide. If US actions are too emotionally close, condemn Canada, or Mexico, or any European nation for their colonial crimes.

When are we going to stop?

True. But i don't get your point.

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

[J. Barron DeJong]

To point out that Palestinians are subjected to a lot of violence is not the same things as condoning or forgiving terrorist attacks.

Maybe the violence is necessary to maintain the existence of Israel, and is completely justifiable. I don’t think that’s an invalid argument to make. But there is a lot of violence, and the casualties are very disproportionate:

[ex-powderbroker]

to me it reads like you are derailing a thread about a gruesome massacre that just occurred with a whattaboutism.

when you see the huge spikes in fatalities on the years their leadership has decided to attack Israel, do they not share blame for the violence?

shouldn’t the state actors that have been acknowledged by hamas do the same?

unfortunately the political leadership decided that civilian deaths are “useful” for marketing and future recruiting.

i grieve for all innocent loss of life including Palestinian, Israeli-Arab, etc.

Fuck these terrorists and this resistance / victim narrative, the cycle must be broken.

[J. Barron DeJong]

https://x.com/tovahlazaroff/status/1...sR_NcRK2VkCfkg

[J. Barron DeJong]

to me it reads like you are derailing a thread about a gruesome massacre that just occurred with a whattaboutism.

when you see the huge spikes in fatalities on the years their leadership has decided to attack Israel, do they not share blame for the violence?

shouldn’t the state actors that have been acknowledged by hamas do the same?

unfortunately the political leadership decided that civilian deaths are “useful” for marketing and future recruiting.

i grieve for all innocent loss of life including Palestinian, Israeli-Arab, etc.

Fuck these terrorists and this resistance / victim narrative, the cycle must be broken.

I am pointing out that it’s a fucking disastrous situation with no hope in sight.

[LongShortLong]

who is we?

Well, it's all of us, isn't it? We're all human. Our actions, good or evil, are human. Sometimes (always?) morality isn't so clear, or in time we come to understand our actions differently. It's complicated. Hard to write about as well.

There's a cycle of violence in Israel/Palestine, that would be nice to stop or slow. I bring the issue of violence now, when emotions are too raw, and reason is difficult. Hamas' action is evil, and the IDF is also capable of terror. It's now that we should try to check that terror, certainly not enable it or blindly support it. It's already bad and getting worse.

There's a million kids living in Gaza, protected by the IDF, getting their homes and playgrounds bombed by the same IDF. Their parents are scared. The kids are terrified. Those kids aren't Hamas. They aren't terrorists. About a million of their parents aren't either. They don't deserve this.

Hamas' action was evil. The perpetrators must be sought. Israel's response is surely justified. The response is honorable and one day will be rightly celebrated with flags and feasts and parades. But there's no heroes and no absolute good. Just humans.

We can hold several valid and good thoughts. We can recognize the contradictions and evil bits among the same. Leave aside the rage and absolutism. Let's try to limit the evil.

[gravitylover]

That girl that was shown being kidnapped and taken away on a motorcycle was burned to death. The video was released a little while ago

Fuck you LSL, those parents are enablers as is every other person old enough to know what's going on in that140 sq mile shit hole. Anybody that gives a shit should've left long ago, the ones that didn't, the ones that accept what's happening around them and try to make the best of it are all enablers, they let it happen. They'll let it happen again too. Fuck them.

[mcski]

Where exactly are they supposed to go?

[gravitylover]

If they wanted to they could have just walked across the border into Israel. There was a fair amount of cross border traffic, regular people living their lives, going to work, going to dinner, etc. The ones that didn't believe and weren't supporters could've left.

[J. Barron DeJong]

If they wanted to they could have just walked across the border into Israel. There was a fair amount of cross border traffic, regular people living their lives, going to work, going to dinner, etc. The ones that didn't believe and weren't supporters could've left.

Sorry, but are you suggesting that residents of Gaza, for example, could relocate to Israeli territory if desired?

That’s not my understanding of the situation, but would be happy to be corrected.

[neufox47]

If Hamas had any brains they would have not brutally murdered people, taken them as prisoners instead, and placed them around Gaza. But Hamas is out for brutality and blood.


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[dan_pdx]

The Hamas attack and Israel's response are going to be the foundation of the next 50 years of conflict in the region. There will be too many people on both sides who lost family and friends to ever achieve a peaceful resolution. I guess an unending supply of angry teenagers is what keeps Hamas relevant and they have no real (i.e., actually achievable) goals beyond that.

[riser4]

Eye for an eye until everybody's blind.

[PNWbrit]

That girl that was shown being kidnapped and taken away on a motorcycle was burned to death.

I can't find this being reported anywhere.

Maybe you saw a dodgy twitter feed?