Check Out Our Shop
Page 162 of 170 FirstFirst ... 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 ... LastLast
Results 4,026 to 4,050 of 4230
  1. #4026
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    33,644
    "innocent unaligned civilians who had no hand in Hamas death games and just want to get on with living good lives - make up a tiny percentage of casualties."

    You have proof of this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  2. #4027
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    907
    Posts
    16,011
    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    "innocent unaligned civilians who had no hand in Hamas death games and just want to get on with living good lives - make up a tiny percentage of casualties."

    You have proof of this?

    Oh now you demand rigour (sic)?

    Demandy McDemandFace needs his duck stroganoff, does he?

  3. #4028
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    33,644
    So that's a no then.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  4. #4029
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Edge of the Great Basin
    Posts
    5,849
    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    As has been discussed in depth here, Israel was starting to normalize relations with numerous muslim countries which would hurt the cause of hamas. This war has set Israel back significantly from a diplomatic/political perspective.

    You want to know why people in this thread are critiquing Israel? Its because we expect better and want a good outcome for them. Its also because they hold 90% of the power here and have the ability to cause/stop 90% of the human suffering, but are instead being baited into self harming actions by a much weaker and less powerful enemy.

    there still doesnt seem to be an Israeli endgame here.
    A big problem is no other countries so far are willing in any way to operate a peace keeping force. For example, there's a a UN Security Council resolution banning Hezbollah from operating anywhere near the Israeli border.

    Hamas's strategy of human sacrifice means anti-Israel sentiment flooding the world prevents a coordinated effort to stabilize Gaza. In order for Israel to pull out of Gaza there must be an administrative alternative to Hamas, along with Hezbollah restrained, preferably involving Arab partners.

    If on the other hand Israel fails to find partners and fails to pacify Hamas then Israel will no longer be considered a regional military power and Arab states could, probably would, align themselves with the only other regional power, Iran, which remains committed to the destruction of Israel.

  5. #4030
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,110
    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    A big problem is no other countries so far are willing in any way to operate as a peace keeping force. For example, there's a a UN Security Council resolution banning Hezbollah from operating anywhere near the Israeli border. Hamas's strategy of human sacrifice means anti-Israel sentiment flooding the world prevents a coordinated effort to stabilize Gaza. In order for Israel to pull out there must be an administrative alternative to Hamas in Gaza, and Hezbollah restrained, preferably involving Arab partners.

    If on the other hand Israel fails to find partners and fails to pacify Hamas then Israel will no longer be a regional military power and Arab states could, probably would, align themselves with the only other region power, Iran, which remains committed to the destruction of Israel.
    I still say that the UN and the West should offer the Saudis a big enough carrot to get them in there as the peacekeeping force. MBS could for sure be economically/politically convinced as he wants so badly to be the reason SA rises to global prominence beyond simply having a resource that is quickly losing its value.

    Or, lets get the Kenyans. They are over in Port Au Prince warming up right now.

  6. #4031
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    5,890
    I thought ‘human shields’ was one of the excuses being used to justify so many civilian casualties. When did that narrative change?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	E12248E7-BB7C-4810-B287-CC1F80786A3E.jpeg 
Views:	24 
Size:	205.5 KB 
ID:	494260

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-count/678400/

    That’s a lot of not-human-shields.

  7. #4032
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    33,644
    "tiny percentage"
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  8. #4033
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Edge of the Great Basin
    Posts
    5,849
    Does Jong imagine Hamas is fighting out in the open, not in an urban environment, while wearing uniforms, and not civilian clothes?


    Vice-President of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) Judge Julia Sebutinde of Uganda in her dissent describes the complexity of Gaza:

    The reality of the humanitarian situation in Gaza is far more complex than South Africa suggests in its fourth Request. While the war in Gaza has undoubtedly had devastating humanitarian consequences on innocent civilians, the responsibility for the suffering of the Palestinians of Gaza does not lie only with Israel and nor is it correct to say that Israel has failed to act to alleviate that suffering. Israel has consistently maintained that as a fighting tactic, members of Hamas embed themselves amongst the civilian population often making it difficult for Israeli forces to distinguish between innocent civilians and legitimate military combatants.

    Finally, Israel has throughout the conflict warned Palestinians in Gaza of upcoming operations and has repeatedly requested the evacuation of civilians from areas of active fighting. Such actions are inconsistent with the intent to destroy the group in question. Israel has also acted to make infrastructure available at shelter sites and has facilitated the supply of shelter equipment into Gaza.


    https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/defaul...d-01-01-en.pdf

  9. #4034
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    907
    Posts
    16,011
    As has been discussed in depth here, Hamas was firing rockets into Tel Aviv on a nightly basis, then they launched a large-scale coordinated military assault on a music festival and several little farm towns. This war has set the cause of Palestine back a hundred years, and made enemies of millions of Americans who didn't give a shit until they were made late for work and were forced to witness the cynicism of not only American elite universities, but their edgier sons and daughters getting sponsored to protest for lies instead of truths.

    You want to know why people in this thread are critiquing Palestine? Its because we expect better and want a good outcome for them. Its also because they hold 90% of the power here and have the ability to cause/stop 90% of the human suffering, but are instead being baited into self harming actions by their religio-political faith, their leadership, and their cultural hatreds.

    You know why no one spends much effort critiquing hamas? Its because its we all have the baseline understanding they are awful, we dont want a good outcome for them, and they can go fuck themselves. Also being reminded of the things they did and continue to do in the name of Palestine and promise to do in the future in the name of Palestine, and their large Palestinian fan base who accepts their leadership...undermines the legitimacy of "The Holy Palestinian Cause".


    there still doesnt seem to be a Palestinian endgame here except the destruction of Israel by any means at hand. Its still being decided on while they continue to hold hostages they took 10/7/23 to instigate this war by committing the greatest atrocity they were capable of inflicting on Israel's civilian population. At what point does Californiagrown stop supporting Palestinian death cults like Hamas? At what point does Californiagrown stop seeking to justify Hamas with incessant carping and hand-wringing attacks on Israel?

  10. #4035
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    907
    Posts
    16,011
    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    So that's a no then.

    It's exactly what I said. I'm not going to bother engaging with your ass until you can ask an intelligent question instead of making potshot rhetorical demands

  11. #4036
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    9,300ft
    Posts
    22,161
    The reason nobody wants to peacekeep in Gaza is the knew it is far easier to wring their hands and cry about civilian casualties without having to speak the reality of having to peacekeep a populace where most will not want such a peace when they are offered by Hamas/Iran the alternative: the deam of victory through Intifada - No Jews from the River to Sea and the eternal terror, death, and suffering that accompanies the pursuit of that unreachable goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    I still say that the UN and the West should offer the Saudis a big enough carrot to get them in there as the peacekeeping force. MBS could for sure be economically/politically convinced as he wants so badly to be the reason SA rises to global prominence beyond simply having a resource that is quickly losing its value.
    You think that if MBS had the will, that he has a competent and coercable force capable of the peacekeeping mission against Hamas especially when Iran will view it as a further opportunity to win through mayhem, death and suffering?

    Or, lets get the Kenyans. They are over in Port Au Prince warming up right now.
    Kenyans are smart, IME. No fucking way they want that bloody quagmire of a mission. Haiti looks like a winnable game of checkers compared to Gaza.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  12. #4037
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,110
    Quote Originally Posted by summit View Post
    You think that if MBS had the will, that he has a competent and coercable force capable of the peacekeeping mission against Hamas especially when Iran will view it as a further opportunity to win through mayhem, death and suffering?
    How competent do you really have to be to spraypaint your helmet powder blue, draw a U and then an upside down U, and escort aid trucks from the border crossings to distribution centers, and prevent random gunman from seizing the aid? Not very. SA isnt going to be charged with seek-and-destroy missions to root out hamas. They are just gonna be there to distribute aid and make sure that hamas isnt interfering too much with the aid deliveries. the thought would be that NO WAY can israel have boots on the ground in gaza, even if explicitly on humanitarian detail, but maybe a nuetral 3rd party country could?


    Also, it would answer the age-old question of who does a Shia extremist hate more: a Sunni or a jew?

  13. #4038
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    907
    Posts
    16,011
    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    How competent do you really have to be to spraypaint your helmet powder blue, draw a U and then an upside down U, and escort aid trucks from the border crossings to distribution centers, and prevent random gunman from seizing the aid?

    Seems like that would be way cooler than protesting on a college campus during Finals Week, dissin' Biden on social media, or gluing your hand to an interstate highway?

  14. #4039
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    STL
    Posts
    13,420
    Half the Arab countries were talking bout kicked off the anarchy and undermined the UN from day 2.

    No one gives a shit about the Un since dipshit GW went around them and invaded the wrong country. Now everyone’s doing it.

  15. #4040
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    sandy, sl,ut
    Posts
    9,716
    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    In 1994, Israel withdrew from Gaza City and Jericho turning over the cities to the Palestinian Authority. Jericho is a city in the West Bank. In 2003 Israel froze all settlement building in return for a cessation of violence by Palestinians. In 2004 the Israeli government voted to remove all settlements from Gaza and four settlements from the West Bank. In 2005 all settlements in the Gaza Strip and four in the northern West Bank were removed: Kadim, Ganim, Homesh, and Sa-Nur.

    Hamas took credit for the 2005 Gaza and West Bank withdrawal, saying "Four years of resistance beat ten years of negotiations." In 2006, Hamas started a civil war in Gaza and took control in 2007. In 2008 Hamas started the Gaza war with Israel. In 2009 the Israeli government said it would freeze settlements in the West Bank if Palestinians recognize Israel's statehood and stop terrorist attacks. Rocket and terrorist attacks continued and in 2023 Israel overturned the 2005 disengagement plan.

    There are two distinct rationales driving the settlement movement: security and the messianic religious movement. The median voter in Israel is concerned about security and opposes the far-right religious movement. The two largest settlements, Beitar Illit and Modi’in Illit are populated by orthodox Haredi. The rest are much smaller. West Bank settlements are dependent on Israel for financial support and drain public coffers. Israel would benefit immensely from withdrawal, and would be supported by the majority of Israelis, if peaceful coexistence with Palestinians was assured.
    This median voter stuff is irrelevant. sure the median voter in the US had problems with the never ending war on terror. Suire this would be relevant in a discussion on whether someone in Afghanistan should hate all americans, or just the american government. So, yea, it would possibly be relevant if I was saying like all isarli people are bad or something, but thats not the point. The point is, even when their government has SAID they're stopping the illegal settlements, and evictions, the same government has always alllowed and supported them.

    And you act like the two faced statements made by this government can be taken at face value. They can't. Their actions prove their words are false. They've never stopped the illegal evictions. They've always supported them.


    And yea, hamas is bad and all, but hamas isn't a state. State sponsored terrorism is worse. And My tax dollars aren't giving arms to hamas. And also, can you reaaaally disagree with the hamas assessment that they gained the little bit of temporary progress they did by resistance and not negotiation?

    Seems to be a shooting yourself in the foot long term strategy and israwl is now going to wipe palestine off the map, but still. its not like theres much reason to trust and believe israel has palestines best interest at heart, if hamas laid down all their arms, israel would just conquer palestine. zOnly a fool would believe otherwise.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

    Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.

  16. #4041
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Edge of the Great Basin
    Posts
    5,849
    Quote Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong View Post
    Hebron House wasn’t a new settlement that was built. The IDF was clearing settlers out from a home Israel said the settlers had illegally forced Palestinians out of:

    Settlers moved in to the four-story building in March 2007 claiming they bought it from a Palestinian. The man denied selling it, and Israeli authorities did not recognize the sale as legal. Israel’s Supreme Court ordered the house vacated last month, but settlers refused.

    https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...c04-story.html

    That’s quite different than ‘not allowing’ or ‘not supporting’ new settlements.

    West Bank settler populations from 1999 thru 2018 (reverse order):

    Attachment 494506

    In which Jong conflates population growth with settlement growth. More than 3 Million people live in the West Bank, 86% of them are Palestinians. Most of the Jewish population growth is the result of natural growth, rather than migration, and almost half of it is from the Haredi cities of Modi’in Illit and Beitar Illit—both of which would be retained by Israel in any peace agreement under a land swap as part any two-state resolution.

    Back to the original point, in 2005 all settlements in the Gaza Strip and four in the northern West Bank were removed: Kadim, Ganim, Homesh, and Sa-Nur. In 2006 Prime Minister Ehud Olmert won election under a promise to pull out of the West Bank. The plan was shelved after Israel came under attack by Hamas and Hezbollah. In 2014, the US proposed a plan for Palestinian sovereignty in the West Bank Jordan Valley by addressing Israel’s security concerns under the same system which failed along Gaza on October 7th 2023. The peace plan fell apart in part b/c of the 2014 Hamas war. Under such a plan Israel would have been left unable to protect its major population centers that exist within minutes of its eastern border.

    Land for peace is an inherently flawed concept. As the Israelis well know and the world at large has once again witnessed, once the land is turned over an adversary has every incentive to renege and demand more. Palestinians rejected cooperation and prosperity too. From 1967, when Israel took administrative control of Gaza and the West Bank, until the time that Arafat launched the Intifada, Gaza and the West Bank were among the top 5 fastest growing economies in the world. Fundamentally, religious fanaticism is driving this conflict in Gaza and the West Bank. Whereas in Israel proper 21% of the Arab population lives mostly peacefully alongside the Jewish population. If we're going to demand equal rights for both Palestinians and Israelis then the fact is Palestinians will have to give up their goal of exterminating all the Jews in Israel.

  17. #4042
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    9,300ft
    Posts
    22,161
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  18. #4043
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Edge of the Great Basin
    Posts
    5,849
    Not only gender Apartheid. Many majority Muslim countries by law require citizens to convert to, or prohibit conversion from, Islam.

  19. #4044
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dystopia
    Posts
    21,621
    Dear American

    Paul Craig Roberts

    Dear American,

    Do you realize that the Republican Speaker of the House, the House Democrat minority Leader, the Senate Majority Leader and the Senate Republican minority leader, along with an almost unanimous Congress have committed you to the support of the Israeli Genocide of Palestine, both the people and the country? “Our” representatives told Netanyahu that “we (meaning the US) join the State of Israel in your struggle against terror.” For eight months Israel has been terror bombing and destroying everything in Gaza, and “our” leaders see the slaughter of women, children, hospitals, all infrastructure as a “struggle against terror” rather than as an exercise of terror.

    The Congress of the United States, supposedly our representatives, but in reality the representative of Zionist Israel, has invited Chief Genocide Leader of the World Netanyahu for whom arrest warrants are outstanding to address the United States Congress. The US Congress is doing this because the US Congress, especially its “leaders,” are paid by Israel Lobby campaign donations to defend the indefensible–the Genocide of the Palestinians and the suppression of all criticism of Israel. This will be the fouth time that Netanyahu has addressed the US Congress.

    Only Senator Bernie Sanders objected: “Netanyahu is a war criminal. I certainly will not attend.” The rest of Congress is comfortable celebrating a war criminal for whom an arrest warrant is issued by the Hague-based International Criminal Court.

    Dear American,

    Does it bother you that “our” government has put our approval on genocide and has endorsed in our name the Genocide of the remnant of a peaceful people who Israel has demonized in order to steal their country?

    Dear American,

    Are you aware that you are about to be taken into nuclear war over the borders of Ukraine while your own undefended, wide open borders are welcoming in 3.6 million immigrant-invaders each year?

    Dear American,

    Are you aware that President Trump has been “convicted” in a Democrat Joseph Stalin type show trial of a non-existent crime?

    Dear American,

    Are you aware that the New York “justice (sic) system ” is the most corrupt of any on planet Earth? The New York “justice (sic) system” could not find justice if there was a quadrillion dollar reward.

    Dear American,

    ?Do you comprehend that you live in a country that is collapsing at light speed, morally, politically, economically, socially, militarily?

    Dear “American,

    Has it occurred to you to wonder why, while the streets of Budapest, Hungary, are filled with hundreds of thousands of people protesting the coming war with Russia that Biden is bringing us, there is no protest activity in America and elsewhere in Europe, and not a word in the media, and no opposition in Congress to the destruction of the Western world that war with Russia will bring?

    Dear American,

    My questions are for aware people, a status for which few Americans qualify. If Human history continues, which at this point of time seems doubtful, future historians will ask why the people did not protest their pending annihilation. How was it possible that entire populations could be so brainwashed that they were removed from the reality of their own destruction?
    I’ve just decided to be a middle aged somewhat depressed somewhat anxious fucktard until the end.

  20. #4045
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,346
    Well that was fucking stupid


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  21. #4046
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dystopia
    Posts
    21,621
    Quote Originally Posted by Gcooker View Post
    Well that was fucking stupid


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Well yeah. PCR is off the rails at times. Then again so am I.
    Don’t agree with all of it. But some salient points. Like destroying innocent families and infrastructure in Gaza. Unless there just cattle and useless eaters, in which case let’s just keep killing.
    But I thought it was a nice rant. Full on political asshatery.
    I’ve just decided to be a middle aged somewhat depressed somewhat anxious fucktard until the end.

  22. #4047
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    sandy, sl,ut
    Posts
    9,716
    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    A big problem is no other countries so far are willing in any way to operate a peace keeping force. For example, there's a a UN Security Council resolution banning Hezbollah from operating anywhere near the Israeli border.

    Hamas's strategy of human sacrifice means anti-Israel sentiment flooding the world prevents a coordinated effort to stabilize Gaza. In order for Israel to pull out of Gaza there must be an administrative alternative to Hamas, along with Hezbollah restrained, preferably involving Arab partners.

    If on the other hand Israel fails to find partners and fails to pacify Hamas then Israel will no longer be considered a regional military power and Arab states could, probably would, align themselves with the only other regional power, Iran, which remains committed to the destruction of Israel.
    How is this true at all? I think any reasonable person would think that the anti israeli outcry would increase the likelihood of some sort of intervention in the area. But it won't happen regardless, its completely insane and illogical to say that in order to be compassionate to the people in gaza, we need to support the state sponsored violence against them? How does criticism of israel prevent intervention in gaza? God you're nuts.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

    Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.

  23. #4048
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    sandy, sl,ut
    Posts
    9,716
    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    I still say that the UN and the West should offer the Saudis a big enough carrot to get them in there as the peacekeeping force. MBS could for sure be economically/politically convinced as he wants so badly to be the reason SA rises to global prominence beyond simply having a resource that is quickly losing its value.

    Or, lets get the Kenyans. They are over in Port Au Prince warming up right now.
    The saudis? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but do they have any experience as a peacekeeping force at all? Why them?
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

    Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.

  24. #4049
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    shadow of HS butte
    Posts
    6,534
    So Hamas is asking for a permanent Israel ceasefire but refuses to put down their guns? Fuck Hamas.

    Also, the IDF aren't doing themselves any favors by bombing refugee camps despite there being Hamas members there or not. That kind of collateral is quite frankly unacceptable.

  25. #4050
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Squaw valley
    Posts
    4,751
    And hospitals

    Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •