Soft Snow Gymkhana - The Heritage Lab FR110

[Full Trucker]

HB122 and Whitehorse seem super fun. Depending on how close to center they can be mounted, that's the type of ski I want to size down on and get jibby.

I’m not a jibby skier, but have skied the HB122 and can confirm they are ridiculously fun. Whitehorse also seems like my vibe, stoked to get on those. And with an R105 also on the way, the inbounds quiver feels pretty dialed.

I currently have (and love) the BC105 so clearly a big-ass touring ski that complements the rest of the collection would really tie the room together. The BC120 Swallowtail *could* scratch that itch, but a touring/carbon layup HB122 would be hilarious and amazing!

[forumskier]

Someone is happy.
I contemplated buying them as a backup pair and my pair is essentially brand new.

They're that good.

But if you like the FR rocker profile in the 110s then FR120ST is probably the way to go for you.

They're back

I’m not a jibby skier, but have skied the HB122 and can confirm they are ridiculously fun. Whitehorse also seems like my vibe, stoked to get on those. And with an R105 also on the way, the inbounds quiver feels pretty dialed.

I currently have (and love) the BC105 so clearly a big-ass touring ski that complements the rest of the collection would really tie the room together. The BC120 Swallowtail *could* scratch that itch, but a touring/carbon layup HB122 would be hilarious and amazing!

Sounds like HL nailed it, making slightly more stable old K2s that retain the playfulness/forgiveness. Easy to ski all day, every day. Surprisingly stable for how easy going they are.

[Upinsmoke]

They are gone! My buddy snagged em

[pfluffenmeister]

They are gone! My buddy snagged em

Thank God.
I put them in my cart a few hours ago, to think about it.

Make sure he posts up his impressions.

[kc_7777]

I’ve got the FR110 (it is so good!) and have ordered the R120ST…..

Pretty sure the two HL skis will get the most of the use next year if we have good snow.

Almost feel sorry for my Pilsner Hojis and Renegades.


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[gaijin]

That hurts my feelings, kc... with my Rens on the wall, and R110's on the way. (I kind of know that the R120ST is my Ren replacement. Please don't tell my Ren.)

But it begs the question-- What is the actual mount point for my 186 R110's? MO recommends 86.75 from the tail. My 186 Rens (a completely unrelated ski) are mounted at 87cm from the tail.

Perhaps another question is-- what is the exact center of sidecut of your FR110's from tail?

You're one of the dorkiest mount-point posters on this board. I'm gonna lean in to you for your input on where you personally think recommended is for the FR110 based on center-of-sidecut. Or-- your personal experience.

In further news... my OG plan is to listen to Marshall, and then grab some calipers to find the true center-of-sidecut, and then choose my line based on previous experiences. All said-- I doubt I'll be questioning MO in his recommendations. I trust his work. I usually trust the work of the designers. Almost always. Perhaps always.

But we all know kc dances around with mount point more than most. So what are your instincts for the R110, kc? I'm curious if they fluctuate at all with MO, et al.

[Core Shot]

Put demo bindings on mine. Ended up liking -6
I’m more trad. You can go further forward

[MagnificentUnicorn]

-6 is pretty progressive, Hoji’s skis are mounted close to that. -5.5 for his boot and a little farther back for bigger boots. I ski my Renegades and Ravens at -8 and that’s for a bsl 327. That’s probably where I will put my bindings on my 194 r110s.


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[Marshal Olson]

That hurts my feelings, kc... with my Rens on the wall, and R110's on the way. (I kind of know that the R120ST is my Ren replacement. Please don't tell my Ren.)

But it begs the question-- What is the actual mount point for my 186 R110's? MO recommends 86.75 from the tail. My 186 Rens (a completely unrelated ski) are mounted at 87cm from the tail.

Perhaps another question is-- what is the exact center of sidecut of your FR110's from tail?

You're one of the dorkiest mount-point posters on this board. I'm gonna lean in to you for your input on where you personally think recommended is for the FR110 based on center-of-sidecut. Or-- your personal experience.

In further news... my OG plan is to listen to Marshall, and then grab some calipers to find the true center-of-sidecut, and then choose my line based on previous experiences. All said-- I doubt I'll be questioning MO in his recommendations. I trust his work. I usually trust the work of the designers. Almost always. Perhaps always.

But we all know kc dances around with mount point more than most. So what are your instincts for the R110, kc? I'm curious if they fluctuate at all with MO, et al.

YOYOYO!

My honest rec is to keep it simple. If you are coming from a Hoji designed ski and happy with the location, and moving onto the HL 110 or 120 of relatively similar length, just mount them at the same position.

So if you are pleased with -6.5, for example, just do that again.

[kc_7777]

That hurts my feelings, kc... with my Rens on the wall, and R110's on the way. (I kind of know that the R120ST is my Ren replacement. Please don't tell my Ren.)

But it begs the question-- What is the actual mount point for my 186 R110's? MO recommends 86.75 from the tail. My 186 Rens (a completely unrelated ski) are mounted at 87cm from the tail.

Perhaps another question is-- what is the exact center of sidecut of your FR110's from tail?

You're one of the dorkiest mount-point posters on this board. I'm gonna lean in to you for your input on where you personally think recommended is for the FR110 based on center-of-sidecut. Or-- your personal experience.

In further news... my OG plan is to listen to Marshall, and then grab some calipers to find the true center-of-sidecut, and then choose my line based on previous experiences. All said-- I doubt I'll be questioning MO in his recommendations. I trust his work. I usually trust the work of the designers. Almost always. Perhaps always.

But we all know kc dances around with mount point more than most. So what are your instincts for the R110, kc? I'm curious if they fluctuate at all with MO, et al.

Gaijin….thank you for the compliment! More people in the world should think about mount points.

I’m pretty lucky to have the Hoji Trinity. But I’m thinking the FR110 + R120 Swallowtail’s are gonna get more use next year.

My Rens, Hoji’s and Ravens are all on the Hoji rec lines.

Here are my measurements:

184 Ren, 182.0 straight pull, I’m 85.3 cm from tail (-5.7cm)

184 Hoji, 182.5cm straight pull, I’m 85cm from tail (-6.3cm)

184 Raven 182.5cm straight pull, I’m 86cm from tail (-5.3cm)

Another way I look at ski mounts is what is the distance from your boot center to the tip? Eg I don’t like “too much” ski in front of me, as I ski centered. It’s a feel thing.

Based on above:

184 Ren has 96.7 cm in front (eg. boot center to tip)

184 Hoji has 97.5cm in front

184 Raven has 96.6cm in front

Note sure why the three 4FRNTs measure different, and each have different recs, or why the Hoji rec is mounted -1cm from the Raven but they all feel great on the (dimple) line. I’ve been in front of Hoji’s rec lines and it’s not as good. Rec on the 4FRNT’s is dialed.

My ideal rec range is -4cm to -7cm. I do have 170cm Head e-Titan SuperShapes at -11cm but they’re irrelevant here.

For deeper soft snow I think 96cm/97cm in front works for me. For everyday ripping around 95.5 cm “in front”. I have this all in an Excel since 2012, with about ~100 ski measurements (of which I’ve owned ~36).

Re my thoughts on the 180 FR110/R120….

I spent the majority of the last 1/2 of the season on my 180 FR110’s. I would continually pass up the Rens, Hojis, Animas, Optic 114/104s and instead grab the FR110’s if there was even a hint of soft snow. The FR110’s are that good. They feel like they are a part of you and you ski like a god.

My 180 FR110’s straight pull at 179.6. I’m 84cm from tail (-5.8cm) which gives me 95.6 cm “in front”. They are perfect. Rec is -6cm and may even be more perfect. Trust Marshall.

For the 180 R120ST….instinct is that I’m likely going on rec which per Marshall is -7cm…or 96.8cm in front (similar to Ren/Raven). And slightly more in front than the FR110, which makes sense as the R120’s will be used in deeper snow.

KC
FR110 mount:


Hoji Trinity mounts:

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[Bandit Man]

Ordered some 186 FR110’s today. Taking the HL plunge!

[forumskier]

Ordered some 186 FR110’s today. Taking the HL plunge!

Oh yeahhhh! They are so good

[pfluffenmeister]

That hurts my feelings, kc... with my Rens on the wall, and R110's on the way. (I kind of know that the R120ST is my Ren replacement. Please don't tell my Ren.)

But it begs the question-- What is the actual mount point for my 186 R110's? MO recommends 86.75 from the tail. My 186 Rens (a completely unrelated ski) are mounted at 87cm from the tail.

Perhaps another question is-- what is the exact center of sidecut of your FR110's from tail?

You're one of the dorkiest mount-point posters on this board. I'm gonna lean in to you for your input on where you personally think recommended is for the FR110 based on center-of-sidecut. Or-- your personal experience.

In further news... my OG plan is to listen to Marshall, and then grab some calipers to find the true center-of-sidecut, and then choose my line based on previous experiences. All said-- I doubt I'll be questioning MO in his recommendations. I trust his work. I usually trust the work of the designers. Almost always. Perhaps always.

But we all know kc dances around with mount point more than most. So what are your instincts for the R110, kc? I'm curious if they fluctuate at all with MO, et al.

I like to drive a ski, and mounted my 186 R110s at -7.7.
Progressive (for me) chargey fun!

@MO I note that the R rocker profile was made a bit more splayed than the beta skis.
Could you elaborate on the differences, and did those changes go across all skis with the R rocker profile?

PS R110 & R120STs are cold dead hands skis.

[K1mJ0ngTr1ll]

I like to drive a ski, and mounted my 186 R110s at -7.7.
Progressive (for me) chargey fun!

@MO I note that the R rocker profile was made a bit more splayed than the beta skis.
Could you elaborate on the differences, and did those changes go across all skis with the R rocker profile?

PS R110 & R120STs are cold dead hands skis.

I’ve got my R110s at -8 and can confirm the cold dead hands sentiment.

New profile seems like it will be a touch more forgiving but plenty ski to get rowdy also the recommended mount bumped forward a touch I believe. Seems to me like it went from corvus-y to a lower more substantial Hoji. Or I could be talking out of my ass which tends to happen.

Ready for my HL Christmas in Sept!

[kc_7777]

Ordered some 186 FR110’s today. Taking the HL plunge!

Nice! You’ll be happy you did.


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[Core Shot]

-6 is pretty progressive, Hoji’s skis are mounted close to that. -5.5 for his boot and a little farther back for bigger boots. I ski my Renegades and Ravens at -8 and that’s for a bsl 327. That’s probably where I will put my bindings on my 194 r110s.


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Might be progressive. But this ski is one where I really didn’t push the shin like I would with my lotus 120 or a hardpack ski. Had to learn to ski more progressive and upright to get the ski and me happy. Super fun style.
Even at -6 I could push the shins without tip dive but found myself not wanting to.
Ymmv
PS. Amazing reverse ski. Can actually carve on groomers and isn’t ever squirrelly on cat tracks. Marshall understands ski design. This is mini golf powder fun
PPS. 326bsl 6’4 210#

[MagnificentUnicorn]

You just described a progressive mount/ski. I’m an inch taller and 30# heavier than you. I’m really looking forward to the 194s.


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[Sylvan]

Ordered some 186 FR110’s today. Taking the HL plunge!

Nice Bandit.

Oh yeahhhh! They are so good

I get this same endorphin rush when others purchase sick skis


Asked MO for sizing advice on R110s, he said I couldn't handle the 187s due to my lack of athleticism and balance, so bumped me up to the 194s. Looking forward to my water wings. Line looks to be -8 +/- on that length, which is where my pivots will be. Three months.

[forumskier]

Nice Bandit.



I get this same endorphin rush when others purchase sick skis


Asked MO for sizing advice on R110s, he said I couldn't handle the 187s due to my lack of athleticism and balance, so bumped me up to the 194s. Looking forward to my water wings. Line looks to be -8 +/- on that length, which is where my pivots will be. Three months.

Maybe I knew this, but just wasn't putting it together in my head...I wasn't realizing Bandit Man wasn't onboard the HL train already. I just hopped aboard this summer as well, also with some FR110s (used 193s that Blister tested). I want more HL already, and suspect Bandit Man will too in the near future.

My FRs were drilled for older Griffon demos, so I found some 2016 Jester demos new in box for cheap to test out mount point while not having to re-drill. I tried -8 last January and immediately wanted them, but thinking I'll prefer -7 or -6 actually. We'll see.

[NuclearNachos21]

does anybody have experience with the r110 and fr110 (105 for bonus points) and how real world difference between? looking for a more playful carger but not sure on which


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[Marshal Olson]

does anybody have experience with the r110 and fr110 (105 for bonus points) and how real world difference between? looking for a more playful carger but not sure on which


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Hey man, with respect to the 105, I don't think anyone would call them playful!

On the 110 permutations, the FR110 and R110 are the same ski footprint, construction, and flex patterns. The difference is the rocker profile. The R110 and FR110 have the same tip and tail heights at the very ends of the ski, but the R has less than 1/2 the splay at the ski's widepoint in the tips and tails and is correspondingly flatter under foot.

The FR is more of a soft snow biased design, especially good in deeper snow, hot pow, mank, wind skin, etc. Overall a more surfy ride.

The R is a little more engaged on firm snow and supportive if you get off balance, and will typically get mounted about 1cm or so further back than the FR.

They are for sure more similar than different, and I don't really think there is a wrong answer. Both of them are very damp and stable and give that effortless video game sensation.

My view is that the answer to your question comes down to where you ski and what skis you might be coming off of. But I am more than happy to explore all relevant nuance in more detail here, via PM, or over email any time!

It is also probably worth noting that there is only 1x 186 FR110 and 3x 187 R110 remaining in the fall delivery window.

[arild]

I mean, the R105s are plenty playful compared to the FL113s, but not in the vicinity of either 110. I think of it like this; the FR110s are playful skis that are super stable. The R105s are extremely stable skis that aren't very playful. The R110s should be about the middle ground. Stabler than the very stable FRs, more playful than the R105s, mainly due to the sidecut and mounting point.

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[forumskier]

Not as playful, but are R105s as good in bumps as FR110s being a bit thinner?

I really liked the FR110s in soft bumps. Was thinking R105 for firmer bumps. My current hard bump skis are M4 Mantra and Blackops 98.

[NuclearNachos21]

guess i haven't looked at the 105 that much haha. glad to heard they're quite similar. if you could just have one for general big mountain/freeride ski it would be the r110?


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[Marshal Olson]

Right on, so in general. I’d say folks that love the FR110 the most probably also own and use a 95-100mm ski too, where folks that go for the R110 will probably question if they need that skinny ski as well

the 105 is substantially more directional, really wants to ski down the mountain, and definitely needs a pilot who can generate some good input and puts energy into the ski.