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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Summit Park UT
    Posts
    1,102
    I currently have a pair of these at home I'm messing around with, trying to decide if I'm going to keep them to repair my 4 year old Zero Gs (a high bar). The range of motions is amazing. Forward flex is bit is a bit softer than Zero Gs in carpet testing. There seems to be a bit of a click and tiniest bit of play in the walk mode lever, something I never noticed in the Zero Gs. As expected from the listed medium volume the heel is definitely higher volume than my Zero Gs which is a bummer, but its not as bad as I feared it might be, might be do-able for me. The forefoot is actually pretty good for me (my Zero Gs had numerous punches on them). I wish the forefoot buckle was farther posterior/back, providing some heel hold. I personally don't feel much benefit from buckles over your foot (none from toe buckles on 4 buckle boots) and feel if its a two buckle boot the second buckle would be more useful to help pull your foot back into the heel pocket, like the instep strap on Maestrales (which isn't actually over your instep) or the second buckle on Kryptons. If I end up keeping them I might play around with moving that buckle or something.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Posts
    13
    What are the differences between the Backland XTD Carbon 120, and the Backland XTD 110? Seems like...

    120
    -- cam strap
    -- carbon loaded PA
    -- 3D platinum tour liner

    110
    -- velcro strap
    -- standard PA
    -- 3D gold tour liner

    Anything else? What's the diff between the platinum and gold liners?

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    SW CO
    Posts
    5,603
    Will be very interested to see how these compare to the Transalp pro carbon. Weights are very close according to skimo.co scale in size 27.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Summit Park UT
    Posts
    1,102
    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    Will be very interested to see how these compare to the Transalp pro carbon. Weights are very close according to skimo.co scale in size 27.
    I’ve tried both on, granted it was inside. The Transalp is probably a bitter stiffer but has a much more limited touring range of motion, especially rearward. Its rearward motion doesn’t seem any better than my Zero Gs. The Backland range of motion is impressive. Both have way too much volume for my foot and the Z closure things do nothing to hold my foot back in the ankle pocket.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    227
    Have a pair as well. Agreed with the previous comments on ROM, its pretty amazing. The slight wobble/click in ski mode is slightly concerning. Overall definitely roomy but I have a high instep and the Z closure works for me.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Kaprun, Austria
    Posts
    421
    Quote Originally Posted by rjenz View Post
    What are the differences between the Backland XTD Carbon 120, and the Backland XTD 110? Seems like...

    120
    -- cam strap
    -- carbon loaded PA
    -- 3D platinum tour liner

    110
    -- velcro strap
    -- standard PA
    -- 3D gold tour liner

    Anything else? What's the diff between the platinum and gold liners?
    3 main upgrades of the 120:
    1. Stiffer flex, achieved through carbon-loaded PA.
    2. Platinum liner = firmer fit, achieved through denser heat-moldable foams
    3. cam strap = snugger fit at the top of the cuff

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by onenerdykid View Post
    3 main upgrades of the 120:
    1. Stiffer flex, achieved through carbon-loaded PA.
    2. Platinum liner = firmer fit, achieved through denser heat-moldable foams
    3. cam strap = snugger fit at the top of the cuff
    Cheers! How punchable is the carbon-loaded PA, composite materials are usually a bit trickier hey? I tried on the 120 in a shop the other day and found the 26.5 a better touring length/forefoot volume for me, but the 25.5 was a better fit everywhere else... (put me down as one of the folks that would be super keen for a Backland XTD based on an Ultra fit instead of the Prime )
    Last edited by rjenz; 10-04-2023 at 01:11 PM.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Fairhaven
    Posts
    260
    I put my foot into a 27.5 Backland XTD 110 last night while my wife was getting some Backlands punched. The boot was comfortably roomy around the toes vertically and in width, the length was what I would expect compared to the Backlands that I've had previously. My normal problem spot is my navicular bone which would take the same amount of work that I would expect in other Backlands. The carpet flex felt soft to me but higher quality than Backland. I'm looking forward to getting into a pair of 120s and think they will make for a nice touring boot for longer tours where the skiing is still the objective, not the means to reach a destination. I think the Hawx XTDs will still be my boot of choice for lift access back country and normal mid-winter tours.

    My feet measure out at 283r/285l and I wear Backlands in 27.5 with a lot of shell stretch from an aggressive oven session and I wear Hawx XTDs in 28.5. I'd be tempted to drop to a 27.5 in the Hawx as well but the last time I tried I couldn't actually get my foot into the 27.5 but could get into the 28.5.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    North Vancouver/Whistler
    Posts
    14,050
    Quote Originally Posted by rjenz View Post
    Cheers! How punchable is the carbon-loaded PA, composite materials are usually a bit trickier hey? I tried on the 120 in a shop the other day and found the 26.5 a better touring length/forefoot volume for me, but the 25.5 was a better fit everywhere else... (put me down as one of the folks that would be super keen for a Backland XTD based on an Ultra fit instead of the Prime )
    Haven't had mine punched yet but shop fitters have punched a couple and they said the boot holds the punch

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Ogden
    Posts
    9,212
    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    Haven't had mine punched yet but shop fitters have punched a couple and they said the boot holds the punch
    Curious when you would punch vs doing the memory shell fit? I finally tried mine on and wore them around a bit and I will definitely need some width in the forefoot of both boots. Do I try heating and molding the shell and liner first and then going with a punch? Liner only and save the shell? Liner mold and then punch?

    I don’t need any room in the ankle, if anything, I could stand to take up some ankle volume. What’s the order of operations here? Thanks!

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    North Vancouver/Whistler
    Posts
    14,050
    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    Curious when you would punch vs doing the memory shell fit? I finally tried mine on and wore them around a bit and I will definitely need some width in the forefoot of both boots. Do I try heating and molding the shell and liner first and then going with a punch? Liner only and save the shell? Liner mold and then punch?

    I don’t need any room in the ankle, if anything, I could stand to take up some ankle volume. What’s the order of operations here? Thanks!
    I think I would punch a bit at the forefoot for toe space for touring if I use Intuition liners but I'd first try memoryfit.

    From what I recall Memoryfit for the Backlabd would be shell +liner so I'd do a mild cook of both and work it in slowly

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Kaprun, Austria
    Posts
    421
    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    Curious when you would punch vs doing the memory shell fit? I finally tried mine on and wore them around a bit and I will definitely need some width in the forefoot of both boots. Do I try heating and molding the shell and liner first and then going with a punch? Liner only and save the shell? Liner mold and then punch?

    I don’t need any room in the ankle, if anything, I could stand to take up some ankle volume. What’s the order of operations here? Thanks!
    Memory Fit is good for:
    -doing a lot of shell & cuff reshaping
    -you don't have the time to go back to a boot fitter for multiple refits
    -you might prioritize comfort over all-out-performance

    Traditional Stretching is good for:
    -you don't need a lot done to the shell or cuff, just specific zones
    -and/or you are able/willing to go back to your fitter for multiple refits
    -and/or you prioritize performance over comfort, or don't want to sacrifice performance for the sake of comfort

    You've said you just need the forefoot adjusted and you don't want a looser ankle/heel. For me, this has the traditional approach written all over it. Expand where you need to, don't mess with the zones you don't.

    Order of operations:
    1. you have a supportive, aftermarket footbed that works with your foot shape.
    2. boot fitter has checked to see how much space is in your shell, length & width.
    3. if you already have decent space in the forefoot, then maybe you only need to heat mold the liner.
    4. if you don't have decent space in the forefoot, then you should have the shell stretched where you need it.
    5. the liner can then be heat molded to that new shell shape, or you can ski it as is, depending on how well it fits you as is. I generally heat mold liners, I find that things feel more uniform and ready to go.

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Kaprun, Austria
    Posts
    421
    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    From what I recall Memoryfit for the Backlabd would be shell +liner so I'd do a mild cook of both and work it in slowly
    Here's where it admittedly gets a little confusing with how we have named the procedures...

    For Backland & Backland UL, these boots use a glued-in boot board. If you were to remove the liners from the shells and heat the shells, the boot board would become unglued, and when you reinsert the liner, the boot board rolls up into the toe box. No bueno. So for these boots, we recommend leaving the liner in the shell during Memory Fit and cook both at the same time.

    For Backland XTD, these boots use a traditional, drop-in boot board, just like Hawx & Hawx XTD. With any boot that has such a boot board, you take the liner out of the shell and only heat the shells. Then you add the liner once they come out of the oven. These boots are also just as tall as Hawx Prime XTD and you most likely won't be able to fit a complete boot into the oven anyway. Liner needs to come out for these models.

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Ogden
    Posts
    9,212
    Quote Originally Posted by onenerdykid View Post
    Memory Fit is good for:
    -doing a lot of shell & cuff reshaping
    -you don't have the time to go back to a boot fitter for multiple refits
    -you might prioritize comfort over all-out-performance

    Traditional Stretching is good for:
    -you don't need a lot done to the shell or cuff, just specific zones
    -and/or you are able/willing to go back to your fitter for multiple refits
    -and/or you prioritize performance over comfort, or don't want to sacrifice performance for the sake of comfort

    You've said you just need the forefoot adjusted and you don't want a looser ankle/heel. For me, this has the traditional approach written all over it. Expand where you need to, don't mess with the zones you don't.

    Order of operations:
    1. you have a supportive, aftermarket footbed that works with your foot shape.
    2. boot fitter has checked to see how much space is in your shell, length & width.
    3. if you already have decent space in the forefoot, then maybe you only need to heat mold the liner.
    4. if you don't have decent space in the forefoot, then you should have the shell stretched where you need it.
    5. the liner can then be heat molded to that new shell shape, or you can ski it as is, depending on how well it fits you as is. I generally heat mold liners, I find that things feel more uniform and ready to go.
    This is great info, thank you so much!

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Denial
    Posts
    2,582
    I have now put 6 days on these boots and will try and write a little review.

    My goal was to get a touring specific boot that skied well, I tried on so many boots in the 1300-1500g class and ended with this one. I have a high arch, a somewhat wide foot, and skinny ankles. Everything else I tried on just didn't fit and this was "closest" so off we went. After 6 days I have had them punched a few times to go wider in the fore foot, there is a pressure point on my arch which I can feel, but isn't an issue, the open top design seems to accommodate the high arch well enough. I did flip flop the straps to try and move the point the boot closes higher up my foot, and I'm not sure how well that worked. I have some movement in the ankle, and I will probably have to get new liners sooner than later to try and take up that volume.
    Overall though, I think it was the best boot I tried on, and I am not unhappy. After 6 days I am getting them broken in, and my feet are warm, and probably one punch away from being comfortable.

    Skiing: They ski excellent. Nothing like a resort boot, but I like them better than my XT3 Tours, and my Lupos. The adjustable forward lean is great. The flex isn't as smooth as a resort boot, and I wish I had experience in more touring boots to compare them to, but once you start skiing this is less noticeable. I do find myself pulling up on the tongues to try and get them in the right spot. May try a booster strap to smooth out that harsh feeling initial flex, or a new liner with a slightly thicker tongue would help this.

    Touring: What I really came for. The ROM is incredible, the pivot point feels spot on, and they transition efficiently. Effortless strides, and no fussing about, I have a long stride and usually use risers on not that steep of stuff. The ROM on these has made it so I haven't used a riser yet this year. I haven't done any boot packing in them yet, I am curious to see if it keeps your foot secure enough to stay comfy.

    Other thoughts: The gaiter is somewhat annoying if you take your liners out, the front and back have a really nice pull loop, but the sides can bunch up a little. Not a deal breaker.
    The power strap has little ridges on it that you can feel while tightening, this is kind of neat and you can feel it ratchet down. Has helped me keep from over tightening.
    I usually have cold feet, and my feet have been warm in these.
    The whole human race is de evolving; it is due to birth control, smart people use birth control, and stupid people keep pooping out more stupid babies.

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    216
    So for those who've adopted the Backland XTD 120, has this replaced your Tecnica zero Gs or Hawx Ultra XTDs? Currently, I'm looking for a beefier touring boot to drive my wider ski and days when I feel like charging. The Salomon MTN Summit Boot is great for long days, but loses precision on a bigger ski. I currently have the Fischer Transalp Pro but I decided that it doesn't fit my heel very well. I'm deciding between these and the Tecnica Zero G Tour Pros.

  17. #67
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    SW CO
    Posts
    5,603
    Quote Originally Posted by abcdethan View Post
    So for those who've adopted the Backland XTD 120, has this replaced your Tecnica zero Gs or Hawx Ultra XTDs? Currently, I'm looking for a beefier touring boot to drive my wider ski and days when I feel like charging. The Salomon MTN Summit Boot is great for long days, but loses precision on a bigger ski. I currently have the Fischer Transalp Pro but I decided that it doesn't fit my heel very well. I'm deciding between these and the Tecnica Zero G Tour Pros.
    I think it really depends on how long you want to tour with your "beefy" touring boot. To me, the Backland XTD as a beefy touring boot only really makes sense if your light touring boot is under 1kg.

    The Backland XTD 120 is ~200g more than your Mtn Summit, which isn't all that much. And the emphasis of the Backland XTD is how well it walks for a 1400g boot, not how well it skis for a 1400g boot. I would personally want a substantial improvement in skiing to differentiate between the two boots.

    If you want to replace your mtn summit with a boot that skis a bit better but tours about as well, then I'd think the Backland XTD would be on the shortlist. Otherwise, I'd pick a 1500g boot that skis substantially better than your Mtn Summit. Just my $0.02.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    North Vancouver/Whistler
    Posts
    14,050
    Quote Originally Posted by abcdethan View Post
    So for those who've adopted the Backland XTD 120, has this replaced your Tecnica zero Gs or Hawx Ultra XTDs? Currently, I'm looking for a beefier touring boot to drive my wider ski and days when I feel like charging. The Salomon MTN Summit Boot is great for long days, but loses precision on a bigger ski. I currently have the Fischer Transalp Pro but I decided that it doesn't fit my heel very well. I'm deciding between these and the Tecnica Zero G Tour Pros.
    Replaced the ZGTP. And fwiw I agree with that auvgeek said

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by Yukonrider View Post
    I have now put 6 days on these boots and will try and write a little review.

    ...

    Skiing: They ski excellent. Nothing like a resort boot, but I like them better than my XT3 Tours, and my Lupos. The adjustable forward lean is great. The flex isn't as smooth as a resort boot, and I wish I had experience in more touring boots to compare them to, but once you start skiing this is less noticeable. I do find myself pulling up on the tongues to try and get them in the right spot. May try a booster strap to smooth out that harsh feeling initial flex, or a new liner with a slightly thicker tongue would help this.

    ...
    Hey @Yukonrider, I see you enjoyed skiing these more than your Lupos. Can ya elaborate on that at all? Or even better, how you'd compare the fit between the two? I'm currently on some heavily modded Lupos but not super stoked on them, aside from the massive ROM with the tongue out.

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by Yukonrider View Post
    I have now put 6 days on these boots and will try and write a little review.

    My goal was to get a touring specific boot that skied well, I tried on so many boots in the 1300-1500g class and ended with this one. I have a high arch, a somewhat wide foot, and skinny ankles. Everything else I tried on just didn't fit and this was "closest" so off we went. After 6 days I have had them punched a few times to go wider in the fore foot, there is a pressure point on my arch which I can feel, but isn't an issue, the open top design seems to accommodate the high arch well enough. I did flip flop the straps to try and move the point the boot closes higher up my foot, and I'm not sure how well that worked. I have some movement in the ankle, and I will probably have to get new liners sooner than later to try and take up that volume.
    Overall though, I think it was the best boot I tried on, and I am not unhappy. After 6 days I am getting them broken in, and my feet are warm, and probably one punch away from being comfortable.

    Skiing: They ski excellent. Nothing like a resort boot, but I like them better than my XT3 Tours, and my Lupos. The adjustable forward lean is great. The flex isn't as smooth as a resort boot, and I wish I had experience in more touring boots to compare them to, but once you start skiing this is less noticeable. I do find myself pulling up on the tongues to try and get them in the right spot. May try a booster strap to smooth out that harsh feeling initial flex, or a new liner with a slightly thicker tongue would help this.

    Touring: What I really came for. The ROM is incredible, the pivot point feels spot on, and they transition efficiently. Effortless strides, and no fussing about, I have a long stride and usually use risers on not that steep of stuff. The ROM on these has made it so I haven't used a riser yet this year. I haven't done any boot packing in them yet, I am curious to see if it keeps your foot secure enough to stay comfy.

    Other thoughts: The gaiter is somewhat annoying if you take your liners out, the front and back have a really nice pull loop, but the sides can bunch up a little. Not a deal breaker.
    The power strap has little ridges on it that you can feel while tightening, this is kind of neat and you can feel it ratchet down. Has helped me keep from over tightening.
    I usually have cold feet, and my feet have been warm in these.
    When you say flip flop the straps to get them to hold higher up your foot what did you do?

  21. #71
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    216
    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    Replaced the ZGTP. And fwiw I agree with that auvgeek said
    How does the ZGTP walk compared to the Atomic Hawx XTD in terms of range and friction? I had the 2020 Hawx previously to compare.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    2,496
    Quote Originally Posted by abcdethan View Post
    How does the ZGTP walk compared to the Atomic Hawx XTD in terms of range and friction? I had the 2020 Hawx previously to compare.
    I think the shells have very similar walking abilities. Apart from the first year or two of production the Hawx was specced with much beefier liners than the ZGTP so its tough to compare unless you are using identical liners.

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Golden
    Posts
    1,030
    Quote Originally Posted by abcdethan View Post
    How does the ZGTP walk compared to the Atomic Hawx XTD in terms of range and friction? I had the 2020 Hawx previously to compare.

    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Very similar. I went from an old hawx xtd to a new zeroG. Both have a ROM that is limited by the cuff rubbing against the top-front over lap of the lower shell on a long stride.

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    2,325
    i tried Back XTD 120s back to back with my stock ZGPTs in a shop, and the former both felt more supportive and their ROM was vastly better. The reason for the former was mostly that the boot just fit my foot better, causing less shell deformation when flexing into the boot. The outcome surprised me - I did not expect the BXTDs to be that supportive.

    I have not tried thhe ZGPTs with Intuition liners yet - that migh even out the flex characteristics a bit - if not the ROM.

    I can't afford to get the B XTDs at this point in time - perhaps later this winter.

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    2,496
    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post

    I have not tried thhe ZGPTs with Intuition liners yet - that migh even out the flex characteristics a bit - if not the ROM.
    Intuition liners will likely walk noticeably worse than ZGTP stock liners, but they will ski better. The B XTD liner is a work of art, combining support and ROM better than any touring liner probably ever.

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