Fucked up shoulder

[Touring_Sedan]

I was scoped as well. There's still some weird numbness/phantom shit going on near the incision sites. I'm assuming they chopped a nerve bundle.

[Dantheman]

T-minus one week to the end of my summer. Feels a bit weird going through with this since it feels pretty good most of the time. I can ride bikes, do pullups, pushups dips, etc. and I haven't had subluxation since my MRI. The only thing I haven't dared try is throw.

But, occasionally one of those flaps of labrum will get caught up in there and while not very painful it definitely feels "not right" for a hot second, which can't be good long term. I keep reminding myself that I have excellent dynamic stability, which is great, but eventually I'm going to find myself in a fall or other unexpected situation where I can't engage that dynamic stability and it's virtually certain I'll blow it out again.

[Dantheman]

Nine anchors. Apparently that's a lot.

[californiagrown]

a recliner, some weed, some movies, an icewater machine, eating a lot of good food, drinking a lot of water, stay ahead of the pain with pills, but not too many, and squeezing a ball to pump blood through your arm. Youll get through it. Itll get better.

[Norseman]

Good luck with recovery, Dan.

[Dantheman]

Brachial nerve block, so no pain, but my whole arm is numb which is rather uncomfortable.

[Bunion 2020]

a recliner, some weed, some movies, an icewater machine, eating a lot of good food, drinking a lot of water, stay ahead of the pain with pills, but not too many, and squeezing a ball to pump blood through your arm. Youll get through it. Itll get better.

I found the recliner for sleeping didn't help. Could not get comfortable sitting up so I made a big sitting up wedge out of pillows for my bed. It was still a week before I could get any meaningful sleep. Ice machine was also kind of a bust, another guy who had gone through the same thing gave me some synthetic ice packs that were easier to manage.

Ah yes the numbness. I am now approx. 1.5 years post op and the numbness in my wrist is getting less and less as the nerves regenerate, 70% back now.

Good luck Dan.

[Dantheman]

Ah yes the numbness. I am now approx. 1.5 years post op and the numbness in my wrist is getting less and less as the nerves regenerate, 70% back now.

Whoa, wait, what? From the nerve block?

[Norseman]

... gotta be from the incision...

[Bunion 2020]

^^^ my guess as well.

[Dantheman]

The carnage

[californiagrown]

The carnage

Nice. It always looks like they are just throwing paracord into your body haha.

Dan, you know your shit with training recovery, make sure you dont forget your shit right now because you're tired, in pain and high. Same principles apply so make sure you implement the full gammut. Diet, quality sleep, lowered stress, hydration, supplementation etc, etc, etc all have very meaningful impacts to your recovery rate. And the faster you can get initial healing to occur, the faster you can get to PT which will really kickstart healing as your body is forced to adapt to the stimuli. The inches add up to weeks and months off recovery to say nothing of a more complete long term recovery. So make sure to push nutrients into your body, make sure to push blood through the site of trauma, make sure to rest, and make sure to limit stress as much as possible. For me, and many others, the progress came in spurts, its not always steady so dont get discouraged, keep grinding and trust the process.

Curiously, any thought of using peptides (BPC157, TB500) or AAS to help recovery? The peptide route doesnt have enough hard proof of efficacy for my liking, but when i get my shoulder done im thinking ill be looking at var/deca (obviously they work for hypertrophy, but they also have a number of studies backing their postsurgical efficacy to heal muscle and tendon repairs).

[Dantheman]

The peptide stuff still feels way too experimental and sketchy to me, especially since most are injected. The FDA banned BPC157 recently. I'll ask if he ever does "augmented" recovery though.

Definitely doing all the other things you mentioned and taking collagen and glycine. Still almost no pain so barely touching the hard stuff. Sleep is tough just because of the sling and I'm naturally a stomach sleeper.

[Touring_Sedan]

Y'all are really considering AAS for shoulder surgery recovery?!!! WITAF?

[Bunion 2020]

Can you clarify AAS? Saw lots of definitions that don't seem to fit.

Numbness: Mine started post op as the anterior surface of my affected arm, from the wrist to almost the elbow. Only the subcutaneous layer was presenting and it varied from full loss of sensation to 90% there. Gradually it has come back and now I have about 70%-100% sensation and the area is from the wrist to about the middle of the humerus. Still have some minor pain in the shoulder if I get lazy with strength training.

IMO, time and PT are what will get you back to 99%.

[skaredshtles]

Can you clarify AAS? Saw lots of definitions that don't seem to fit.

Numbness: Mine started post op as the anterior surface of my affected arm, from the wrist to almost the elbow. Only the subcutaneous layer was presenting and it varied from full loss of sensation to 90% there. Gradually it has come back and now I have about 70%-100% sensation and the area is from the wrist to about the middle of the humerus. Still have some minor pain in the shoulder if I get lazy with strength training.

IMO, time and PT are what will get you back to 99%.

Anabolic steroids

[Bunion 2020]

??? Yeah, hard pass.

[californiagrown]

??? Yeah, hard pass.

To each their own. Dummies running crazy cycles and folks who use them long term or to pursue unhealthy hobbies are generally the folks that have issues. For a man in his middle age, with all the kids he'll ever want, under the watchful eye of a doctor running the correct labs, and with a smart cycle with clear intentions for recovery from injury/surgery, the risks are really low. Like, much lower than the surgery itself or with the other meds you get prescribed.

Personally, im very interested in ways to speed up my recovery and strengthen the musculature and tendons/ligaments themselves. Again, to each their own, and i realize the majority of TGR is not the right crowd to discuss this topic.

[Touring_Sedan]

under the watchful eye of a doctor running the correct labs, and with a smart cycle with clear intentions for recovery from injury/surgery,

Suuuuure. That's what's going on.

[2FUNKY]

The use of steroids, AAS, as an effective means of recovery post op are mainly non impactful. Not enough significance to make a discernible difference per many studies. You’re a smart guy DTM so as I suspect you will do your due diligence on this subject. Here is one study. Best of luck on a full and strong recovery!

https://josr-online.biomedcentral.co...1749-799X-5-93


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[californiagrown]

The use of steroids, AAS, as an effective means of recovery post op are mainly non impactful. Not enough significance to make a discernible difference per many studies. You’re a smart guy DTM so as I suspect you will do your due diligence on this subject. Here is one study. Best of luck on a full and strong recovery!

https://josr-online.biomedcentral.co...1749-799X-5-93


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This metastudy abstract says the below. Again, to each their own on this one (as with most health things that arent totally clearcut). Personally, i am very interested in the benefits, and will likely use them to help recover from my future shoulder surgery. i was wondering if Dan had considered, and what his thoughts were, as he is likely at least passingly familiar with their recreational uses and the potential benefits with surgery. And yes, you would be an abject moron to forgo proper rest/diet/recovery and PT thinking AAS are all you need.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34982051/


Despite the well-documented effects of testosterone and its synthetic derivatives-collectively termed anabolic androgenic steroids (AASs)-on the musculoskeletal system, the therapeutic use of these agents has received limited investigation within the field of orthopaedic surgery. In the last 2 decades, preclinical and clinical research has started to identify promising applications of the short-term use of AASs in the perioperative period. There is evidence to suggest that AASs may improve postoperative recovery after anterior cruciate ligament reconstruction and total joint arthroplasty. In addition, AASs may augment the biological healing environment in specific clinical scenarios including muscle injury, fracture repair, and rotator cuff repair. Current literature fails to present strong evidence for or against the use of AASs in orthopaedics, but there is continuous research on this topic.

[2FUNKY]

Not arguing for or against, that’s a personal decision. I opted not to for my Achilles recovery after much deliberation with several surgeons and doctors. I am for doing everything possible to help facilitate recovery on a personal level.


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[californiagrown]

Not arguing for or against, that’s a personal decision. I opted not to for my Achilles recovery after much deliberation with several surgeons and doctors. I am for doing everything possible to help facilitate recovery on a personal level.


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Curiously, what was your rationale/thought process? concerned about health risks? PITA and cost of sourcing and sticking a full high quality cycle? Not enough evidence of efficacy to bother?


the thing i always hear is that unless your doc is knowledgable about AAS and their application in sports, they will almost always just wave off the suggestion and warn against it. Its not taught in med school, and its not part of continuing education (because its illegal and not approved so the studies are limited) so unless they are interested/involved in that niche, most will just wave it off because of lack of knowledge.

[2FUNKY]

Curiously, what was your rationale/thought process? concerned about health risks? PITA and cost of sourcing and sticking a full high quality cycle? Not enough evidence of efficacy to bother?


the thing i always hear is that unless your doc is knowledgable about AAS and their application in sports, they will almost always just wave off the suggestion and warn against it. Its not taught in med school, and its not part of continuing education (because its illegal and not approved so the studies are limited) so unless they are interested/involved in that niche, most will just wave it off because of lack of knowledge.

Not enough efficacy, cost, procurement. My docs were/are all sports related so have a high level of understanding the influences around them. All of them said it’s my choice but gave me insight to make an informed decision for myself. I chose to attack my recovery with nutrition, supplements, PT, sleep etc. Very happy with my results.


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[Dantheman]

The use of steroids, AAS, as an effective means of recovery post op are mainly non impactful. Not enough significance to make a discernible difference per many studies. You’re a smart guy DTM so as I suspect you will do your due diligence on this subject. Here is one study. Best of luck on a full and strong recovery!

https://josr-online.biomedcentral.co...1749-799X-5-93


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That paper certainly doesn't make me *less* interested. Better outcomes across the board with little to no reported side effects. You do have to wonder if the results from "multimorbid" patients would translate to fit people, but it's not like this isn't happening with elite athletes. Just the impact wearing a sling all night has on my sleep has probably made my T and HGH take a big hit. There's certainly an argument to made that just correcting that deficit until you get back to sleeping properly is a pretty reasonable thing to do.

I definitely agree with californiagrown that in a focused context and done with the right physician there's basically no risk. The only question seems to be how much upside is there when considered against the cost and hassle. If my doc offered it up saying he's seen it work, it's his standard protocol for people 40+, and the cost was reasonable I probably wouldn't hesitate. But, I'm not about to spend time and energy going doctor shopping to make that happen. That effort is better spent on PT and recovery.