SRAM Eagle T-Type drivetrain and Code Stealth Brakes

**El Chupacabra** · 03-22-2023, 09:29 AM

$2000+ new "standard" that isn't compatible with existing parts. Sounds about right. Maybe we can get a new hub spacing and cassette driver interface to go with it soon.

**bagtagley** · 03-22-2023, 10:23 AM

Only option on the Santa Cruz bikes I looked at today. It's bananas that the low end of a bike range is $8k.

**toast2266** · 03-22-2023, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs

SRAM introduced the UDH as a Red Herring. It was the only way they could convince a bunch of frame manufacturers to build their bikes to the spec that SRAM needed.
Brands thought a UDH would be a good idea, and SRAM said here are spec, build it like this..... a few years later they now have a majority of brands with the correct spec for for their new "transmission".
Pretty smart in my opinion.

You make it sound like SRAM pulled something on the frame manufacturers, but I would bet several shiny nickels that every frame manufacturer that switched to the UDH knew full well that a direct mount derailleur was in the works. The UDH was a good idea in and of itself, but it's not been a particularly well kept secret that a direct mount system was coming down the pipe.

I bet we see a direct mount groupset priced at a smidge under $1k within a year. And I bet the majority of bikes priced over ~$4500 are going to come with some version of the Transmission drivetrain within 2 years. I think this is going to push Shimano back into being a small minority supplier, similar to how it was when SRAM released their 1x drivetrains and Shimano was still clinging to front derailleurs.

I still hate the idea of having to keep my drivetrain charged, but it's realistically the direction things are going.

**SkiLyft** · 03-22-2023, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by toast2266

You make it sound like SRAM pulled something on the frame manufacturers, but I would bet several shiny nickels that every frame manufacturer that switched to the UDH knew full well that a direct mount derailleur was in the works. The UDH was a good idea in and of itself, but it's not been a particularly well kept secret that a direct mount system was coming down the pipe.

I bet we see a direct mount groupset priced at a smidge under $1k within a year. And I bet the majority of bikes priced over ~$4500 are going to come with some version of the Transmission drivetrain within 2 years. I think this is going to push Shimano back into being a small minority supplier, similar to how it was when SRAM released their 1x drivetrains and Shimano was still clinging to front derailleurs.

I still hate the idea of having to keep my drivetrain charged, but it's realistically the direction things are going.

QFT

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**Phall** · 03-22-2023, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

$2000+ new "standard" that isn't compatible with existing parts. Sounds about right. Maybe we can get a new hub spacing and cassette driver interface to go with it soon.

One nice thing is that the vital/pinkbike did state that this was death to superboost 157 on trailbikes, so it seems like they actually eliminated a "standard" that didn't really take off, which I see as a win.

**Dumbest Known Time** · 03-22-2023, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by toast2266

You make it sound like SRAM pulled something on the frame manufacturers, but I would bet several shiny nickels that every frame manufacturer that switched to the UDH knew full well that a direct mount derailleur was in the works. The UDH was a good idea in and of itself, but it's not been a particularly well kept secret that a direct mount system was coming down the pipe.

I bet we see a direct mount groupset priced at a smidge under $1k within a year. And I bet the majority of bikes priced over ~$4500 are going to come with some version of the Transmission drivetrain within 2 years. I think this is going to push Shimano back into being a small minority supplier, similar to how it was when SRAM released their 1x drivetrains and Shimano was still clinging to front derailleurs.

I still hate the idea of having to keep my drivetrain charged, but it's realistically the direction things are going.

Yeah I think multiple places openly mused about how the UDH would sure make it easy for a direct mount derailleur when it was launched. Definitely a clever move by SRAM but not quite a full on bamboozle.

**Eluder** · 03-23-2023, 08:49 AM

I would consider the X0 kit for one of my bikes; the problem is that one isn't UDH. There is also the fact I am pleased with X0 mechanical...

Also, the thread title should say "Transmission" per Sram

**Wes Mantooth** · 03-23-2023, 10:01 AM

I think it looks pretty sweet. Easier to justify spending dumb money on this than on a shiny XX1 drivetrain (not that I can currently afford either). Being able to smash your derailleur on a rock and not have to adjust it anymore sounds pretty nice to me. Sure it’s heinously overpriced but so is everything that goes on or anywhere near a bike

**SkiLyft** · 03-23-2023, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Phall

One nice thing is that the vital/pinkbike did state that this was death to superboost 157 on trailbikes, so it seems like they actually eliminated a "standard" that didn't really take off, which I see as a win.

Thank god, hope Evil and Pivot get the picture so I can buy a new boost offering

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**smmokan** · 03-23-2023, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth

Being able to smash your derailleur on a rock and not have to adjust it anymore sounds pretty nice to me.

This is one thing I've been reading over and over... but can you really? Just because SRAM says you can, doesn't mean it's true. They also said the clutches on the AXS drivetrains were just as strong as the cable-actuated derailleurs, but we all know that ended up being BS. I'd like to see some real-world proof that these things aren't breaking, instead of just accepting the typical marketing BS as gospel.

**toast2266** · 03-23-2023, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by smmokan

They also said the clutches on the AXS drivetrains were just as strong as the cable-actuated derailleurs, but we all know that ended up being BS.

This is my 2nd biggest hang up on AXS (the first being the batteries). I tried an AXS setup for a week and the clutch pretty much immediately shat the bed. I dropped more chains in that week than I have in years.

**Andeh** · 03-23-2023, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by smmokan

This is one thing I've been reading over and over... but can you really? Just because SRAM says you can, doesn't mean it's true. They also said the clutches on the AXS drivetrains were just as strong as the cable-actuated derailleurs, but we all know that ended up being BS. I'd like to see some real-world proof that these things aren't breaking, instead of just accepting the typical marketing BS as gospel.

I've been running regular AXS since Feb 2021 and put on ~2.5k miles on it. The body of my derailleur is very well scarred, and I've even hit it hard enough to bend back the little plastic cover that says "X01". I just bent it back and re-stuck with double-sided tape. It still shifts the same as when it was new. There are a couple of tight right hand corners on our local trails that I end up smacking the derailleur on about 25% of the time because that's my weaker corner. The only maintenance I've done on it (besides charging the battery) was replacing the jockey wheels with GX wheels when the stock ceramic ones died, and putting fresh Loctite on the B-tension screw at like ~1,500 miles.

I just put GX AXS on the ebike I got this Christmas. I find with the increased torque there, having really precise shift timing helps a lot. I plan on running that setup until GX cassette wears out, then upgrading to the new X0 cassette/chain & XX RD (for the "Magic Wheel"). I'll keep my existing shifter/controller, and get their cheap ebike 104 BCD chainring. Shifting better under load and ebike sounds like a perfect match.

I honestly have no idea if the clutches get weaker or not, since I always run chainguides. I've never dropped a chain with them, so who knows. My old enduro bike had mediocre chainstay protection, so I honestly couldn't say if any chain slap noise is due to the clutch or the bike. The GX AXS on my Levo (with great CS protection) has been super quiet so far, but it's only got 300 miles on it so far.

My only gripe with what I see on the Transmission stuff is that they aren't releasing a 3-bolt chainring, so if & when I eventually upgrade the system on my enduro bike, I'll need to run an aftermarket chainring on my cranks. Prices are high, but that's to sucker the early adopters.

**Wes Mantooth** · 03-23-2023, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by smmokan

This is one thing I've been reading over and over... but can you really? Just because SRAM says you can, doesn't mean it's true. They also said the clutches on the AXS drivetrains were just as strong as the cable-actuated derailleurs, but we all know that ended up being BS. I'd like to see some real-world proof that these things aren't breaking, instead of just accepting the typical marketing BS as gospel.

Yeah I dunno. Seen a lot of videos of people stomping on them and then riding the bike but they’re all sponsored riders and maybe just put a new one on immediately after

**smmokan** · 03-23-2023, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth

Yeah I dunno. Seen a lot of videos of people stomping on them

The marketing seems to be working.

**toast2266** · 03-23-2023, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth

Yeah I dunno. Seen a lot of videos of people stomping on them and then riding the bike but they’re all sponsored riders and maybe just put a new one on immediately after

All the videos I've seen involve people stomping on them with the bike laid on the ground. So they're basically just stomping on the axle. I'm not worried about rock strikes on my axle. I want to see someone stand the bike upright and punt the thing on the clutch / P-knuckle.

**D(C)** · 03-24-2023, 07:40 AM

Here’s a video where they smash the derailleur until it breaks. It’s some small component in the parallelogram that fails first.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i3QzPxdN1e4

**toast2266** · 03-24-2023, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by D(C)

Here’s a video where they smash the derailleur until it breaks. It’s some small component in the parallelogram that fails first.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i3QzPxdN1e4

Nice. That's the test I wanted to see. And yeah, that thing took an impressive amount of abuse.

If be interested to see the same test on a traditional X01.

**hick** · 03-24-2023, 03:32 PM

^^sweet video! Now if they could make that without another damn battery I have to charge in addition to all this other electronic bullshit I’ve convinced myself I need and have to charge all the time

Plus, nobody ever wants to talk about where we get all the stuff that powers these sweet little batteries…hello child labor in a mine in the Congo!

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**SkiLyft** · 03-24-2023, 03:57 PM

Awesome video, this thing is superior in so many ways!! Well done SRAM! Love that the components on the derailleur are replaceable, seems it will be cheaper than we initially thought to keep redundant parts.

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**XXX-er** · 03-25-2023, 08:20 PM

https://nsmb.com/articles/lost-in-transmission/

and here is NSMB biting the hand that feeds them or sft

**volklpowdermaniac** · 03-25-2023, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by XXX-er

https://nsmb.com/articles/lost-in-transmission/

and here is NSMB biting the hand that feeds them or sft

Loved this.

But I’m
Just a Luddite. The thing I just can’t wrap my head around is why everyone and every company wants us to have batteries/motors on every part of the bike , but we’ve beat that to death. I’m just sad that’s all..

**thefortrees** · 03-25-2023, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by SkiLyft

Awesome video, this thing is superior in so many ways!! Well done SRAM! Love that the components on the derailleur are replaceable, seems it will be cheaper than we initially thought to keep redundant parts.

How is it cheaper? You still need 2x of every part in the repair kit to keep running. Great engineering - making it a self-serviceable and modular system. Sram went the modular route for a reason… because they know all sorts of shit will break? There are always trade-offs.

Primary gripe: What happens when you’re on the road and break component A, B, or C? We are years out, if ever, from the LBS keeping replacement parts in stock for this drivetrain. I’m currently running shimano cranks/chainring/chain with x01 cassette/derailleur on my new bike (gasp!!!) because that’s what I had. Either don’t ride while waiting for the back-ordered 165mm Sram cranks to arrive or get the bike running. Franken-setups like that aren’t possible with the transmission.

How many hangers or derailleurs have you broken or bent? I’m guessing not many if you’re drinking the transmission marketing kool aid

Don’t get me wrong, this is great tech. But “superior” is relative.

“People like to buy products when they hear about them. It’s something we’ve never done in the past, but it’s what bike shops want, it’s what the OEs want, and it’s what bike riders want.”—Michael Zellmann, senior PR manager, SRAM

**SkiLyft** · 03-25-2023, 11:45 PM

^^ good insights @4trees.

Yeah; I’ve torched 1 hanger in my 3 years of riding so can’t say I have gone through many.

I see your primary gripe, and this certainly does make put SRAM in a class of its own when it comes to not playing nice in the sandbox.

I guess what I’m stoked about is that they are actually looking at a way to build a better derailleur. Now my next question is… do we need one? Experienced riders know the quirks of their particular bike and can shift to avoid them.

That said, if we draw a parallel to cars why would we expect to put a ford #transmission in a Toyota? I mean you wouldn’t… so maybe a divergence from the mix and match system we currently have is a good thing? Just spitballing here.

I think innovation is good and necessary for the progression of a sport, so my excitement is in line with this. If the masses reject this… and everyone buy Shimano… then I think that will be very telling.

My real joy comes from hoping this catches on so that super boost can DIE forever!

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**toast2266** · 03-26-2023, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by XXX-er

https://nsmb.com/articles/lost-in-transmission/

and here is NSMB biting the hand that feeds them or sft

That's a great write up.

**smmokan** · 03-26-2023, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by volklpowdermaniac

Loved this.

But I’m
Just a Luddite. The thing I just can’t wrap my head around is why everyone and every company wants us to have batteries/motors on every part of the bike , but we’ve beat that to death. I’m just sad that’s all..

I’d be interested in hearing the reasons from SRAM (and Shimano?) as well…. Is it cheaper to produce, more profitable, etc? Or is it just considered a natural progression? Because IMO it’s not better, it’s just different. And from a consumer/end-user perspective, I personally don’t like it at all due to needing batteries and they’re significantly more expensive to replace if something breaks. But I also know that we’re being force fed this BS, so it’ll be impossible to resist at some point soon.