Shell fitting boots for Morton’s toe

[CouloirInTheLines]

I have a longer second toe than big toe (i.e. Morton’s toe) and I’m in early stages of thinking about new boots. One question is if I go to a store and try shell fits should I be checking heel distance with only the second toe against the front of the shell? Or should I curl/smash that toe a bit so that more of my toes touch the front, with a plan to have them do boot work to make room for the second toe? I’m thinking the latter for a tighter fit overall but I’m pretty unsophisticated on the boot fitting front.

On my current boots I don’t have dowels but based on finger spacing I think I’m about 1/2-3/4” from the back of my shell with the second toe just barely touching the front. But if I mash my toes forward it is more like 1” of space which I think is making the fit too loose.

5’11” 185 lbs size 10 shoes skiing Hawx Ultra 110 26.5s from a few years ago. Looking at heavier, stiffer options like the Redster CS 130.

If it matters I’m what I’d call a lazy aggressive resort skier. I saw someone on another thread describe themselves as “expert mediocre” which also seems apt. I like to find the steepest technical lines on a mountain and make my way down them unceremoniously then straight line the groomers back to the lifts. Occasional drops and jumps but nothing too crazy. ~15 days a year in mix of east/west trips across all conditions.

[Duffman]

Lazy aggressive and Expert Mediocre are excellent descriptions, hit close to home here.
I have a mild Mortons toe also , more prominent on my longer right foot. In my older OG Cochise 130 Pro , the toebox was pretty pointy and narrow, and the effect of cramming my toes all together laterally smashed my second toe against my big toe and made my Big toe effectively the most prominent in length.

With the new Cochise 130 version, the toe box is much roomier, This is great because I don't smash my big toe against the shell anymore and get a blakc toenail, and my toes aren't getting painfully compressed laterally. But since the toes have room to sit more naturally now, the second Mortons toe is again longer and is getting wacked against the front of the shell pretty uncomfortably now. I need to get some work done to fix this but haven't had it done yet, I'm not sure how easy it is to make length in that very specific mid toe spot of the shell.

The moral of the story, it likely depends on the overall fit and shape of the shell, it may not make as much difference in some boots vs others. But I would shell fit length with plans to make room for that toe as opposed to going up a shell size , provided the rest of the fit is good.,

[Dee Hubbs]

Punch for the Mortens Toe.
I have a slight Mortens, and I shell fit until I feel my big toe touch the front of the shell. In some boots the big toe touches first, and some boots the 2nd toe touch's first and I have to acknowledge that and keep pushing until I feel the big toe hit.
I can be a tricky punch (or just need a skilled fitter) when the boots toe lug, or tech fittings are close to that punch area.
As mentioned above, it all depends on the boots toe box shape. My Lange's toe box does not need a punch, but my Fisher boots do.

[skuff]

Touch your big toe to the front of the boot when shell fitting. If you don't, you risk getting a boot that's too long/big.

I've been using a Full Tilt First Chair boot with Full Tilt Pro Wrap liner for the past 3 years that fit beautifully, no punching. My 2nd toe is at least 1/2" longer than my big toe on both feet. I believe the First Chair boot shape is slightly wider in the toe box than the Kneissl Flexon that I was using before I got the First Chair, and the Pro Wrap liner has a bit more room in the toe area by using a thinner foam than a regular Power Wrap

Pretty sure K2 makes that First Chair boot now, but I don't know what they call it

[gregL]

I have no idea how loose your street shoes are, and there is a big difference between 1/2" and 3/4" - if the former, stick with a 26.5 in the Redster CS. You know most people can comfortably ski with their 2nd phalanges bent, since there is an extra joint that isn't present in the 1st phalanges? (also it's a smaller diameter digit).

[gregL]

I have no idea how loose your street shoes are, and there is a big difference between 1/2" and 3/4" - if the former, stick with a 26.5 in the Redster CS. You know most people can comfortably ski with their 2nd phalanges bent, since there is an extra joint that isn't present in the 1st phalanges? (also it's a smaller diameter digit).

Whether it's worth it to drop down a size for an "expert mediocre" skier putting in 15 days a year depends on the shape/volume of your foot - if it's very narrow and the reduced interior dimensions of a 25.5 (2mm narrower, but also lower and snugger everywhere) seen desirable, it might be worth the trouble of punching for the 2nd toe. if you already have a decent fit in a Hawx Ultra, the Redster CS is way snugger where it counts (midfoot and navicular) anyway.

[Duffman]

I have no idea how loose your street shoes are, and there is a big difference between 1/2" and 3/4" - if the former, stick with a 26.5 in the Redster CS. You know most people can comfortably ski with their 2nd phalanges bent, since there is an extra joint that isn't present in the 1st phalanges? (also it's a smaller diameter digit).

This is what I'm doing now in the new Cochise (skiing w 2nd toe a little bent, but teu tip of it gets very sore after a day of skiing from banging into the front. How difficult is it ro have a small punch right there without interfering with the roe lug ?

[gregL]

This is what I'm doing now in the new Cochise (skiing w 2nd toe a little bent, but teu tip of it gets very sore after a day of skiing from banging into the front. How difficult is it ro have a small punch right there without interfering with the roe lug ?

Not difficult if you have the right equipment and some experience.

[CouloirInTheLines]

Whether it's worth it to drop down a size for an "expert mediocre" skier putting in 15 days a year depends on the shape/volume of your foot - if it's very narrow and the reduced interior dimensions of a 25.5 (2mm narrower, but also lower and snugger everywhere) seen desirable, it might be worth the trouble of punching for the 2nd toe. if you already have a decent fit in a Hawx Ultra, the Redster CS is way snugger where it counts (midfoot and navicular) anyway.

Thanks. Hawx Ultra is ok but always feel like my heel/ankle area is a bit loose. If I crank down the buckles then foot goes numb or cramps up. So I spend most of the day either too tight or too loose - unbuckling for chairlifts, rebuckling at the top, and tightening before I go into a steep section or a planned jump.

After a few phone calls it’s clear none of the shops within an hour or two (I’m in NYC/Westchester) carry these kinds of boots and even shops up in Vermont are low on sizes/choices at this point in the season. I’ll wait until next winter to figure this out but appreciate the advice.

[gregL]

This is what I'm doing now in the new Cochise (skiing w 2nd toe a little bent, but teu tip of it gets very sore after a day of skiing from banging into the front. How difficult is it ro have a small punch right there without interfering with the roe lug ?

Are you sure the boot is too short? What is your shell fit in millimeters? Somewhere in one of these threads I mentioned a bunch of other things that can contribute to toe bang, among them inappropriate footbed, inadequate hold around the ankle/midfoot/instep (both allow the foot to move in the fore/aft plane - if you have a very low volume foot or skinny ankle and are in an average volume boot like the Cochise this could be the case), excessively long first or second toes (concentrate pressure on a small area rather than distributing it between five toes), backseat skiing/hucking to tails of your skis, etc.

[Duffman]

Are you sure the boot is too short? What is your shell fit in millimeters? Somewhere in one of these threads I mentioned a bunch of other things that can contribute to toe bang, among them inappropriate footbed, inadequate hold around the ankle/midfoot/instep (both allow the foot to move in the fore/aft plane - if you have a very low volume foot or skinny ankle and are in an average volume boot like the Cochise this could be the case), excessively long first or second toes (concentrate pressure on a small area rather than distributing it between five toes), backseat skiing/hucking to tails of your skis, etc.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure in this case it's the length. No issues with the toes of the left foot which is close to a half size shorter. Borderline 1 finger shell fit in the right foot in the 27.5 Cochise with a high instep that is actually crushed a bit right now (in the Verifit threat you told me my instep would be borderline without work) . I had similar right foot length issues in my older 27.5 Cochise but the pressure concentrated on the big toe and outside edge of the third toe,had a small punch done at the big toe.

[rod9301]

Thanks. Hawx Ultra is ok but always feel like my heel/ankle area is a bit loose. If I crank down the buckles then foot goes numb or cramps up. So I spend most of the day either too tight or too loose - unbuckling for chairlifts, rebuckling at the top, and tightening before I go into a steep section or a planned jump.

After a few phone calls it’s clear none of the shops within an hour or two (I’m in NYC/Westchester) carry these kinds of boots and even shops up in Vermont are low on sizes/choices at this point in the season. I’ll wait until next winter to figure this out but appreciate the advice.

If it's loose in the ankle area, try gluing some firm foam in the front of the tongue, this will take out space

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