Backpack: shedding weight

[lorcar]

I use the Jones 32l backpack, and learned that both the Ortovox and BD are lighter, even though few hundreds grams.
I would guess the heaviest stuff is the avalanche set, so probably one could search for a lighter shovel?
Thermos bottle/liquids in general are also heavy but needed.
Is there any recommendation/lesson learned to reduce backpack weight? At the end I bring one vest (ME Switch no hood), one hard/softshell (like Arct Gamma LT) and something even lighter for the way up like the BD Alpine Start hoody. Obviously as the temperature goes up, also the midlayer (norrona alpha) and the jacket (Arct Proton) end in the backpack, and I wear either the vest or the BD Alpine over the first layer.
At some point i guess there isn't much you could do to reduce the weight, so i was wondering if you have any smart suggestion.

[thecazdog]

I think my winter touring pack is all up just under 5kg, including an airbag (base weight, no food or water).

Light but functional avalanche gear is good (eg. ARVA shovel, skimo style probe). Light emergency gear, a bothy bag and clothing/shell layers. If avalanches aren't an issue I can drop a kilo or more (ditch the avalanche pack, add in crampons and whippet heads).

[gaijin]

Xxxx

[mrkbrnblm]

Light but functional avalanche gear is good (eg. ARVA shovel, skimo style probe). Light emergency gear, a bothy bag and clothing/shell layers. If avalanches aren't an issue I can drop a kilo or more (ditch the avalanche pack, add in crampons and whippet heads).

If you showed up to the trailhead with a skimo style probe to save 50g, I'd make fun of you and then refuse to ski with you... This is not the place to save weight, nor is there much weight to save since the probe is a small percent of the total weight you're hauling uphill. You need a real >300cm probe and a real avalanche shovel. You can get a carbon probe, but don't get a short skimo probe.

Save weight on skis, skins, bindings, and boots. What's that saying about a pound on your foot?

[riff]

I’m mostly with Mrk on this one. Weight attached to the far end of your legs makes way more impact on fatigue than weight in a decent pack. I go burly on avy tools, repair, first aid, clothing, water and food. I guess those categories are actually everything you carry touring unless you’re a photographer, but it feels worth it to me if something goes sideways. In twenty years of touring I haven’t used any emergency stuff in the real deal, but it’s comforting to know I have it.


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[XXX-er]

I go 40L and don't sweat it cuz let alone enough gear to protect me IME I might have to carry all my gear including skis boots poles and the suspension system of the pack needs to handle it

it was summer sking some snow patches but here it was snowing uphill, I'm walking a ridge in a very big wind blowing from my right using a Dakine apex mtn bike pack figuring just some water & skins but with boots/ skins it sucked/ couldn't handle the load, tactical error

[hutash]

Lose the X lbs around the waist is the best way to lighten up.

[lemonhead]

I think one thing that cracks me up is when weight weenies have a metal bottle.

[tang]

^^^ Totally! Ditch the thermos. Go with a foldable plastic h20 "bottle".
Also lightweight food like a bar and some dried mangos.
Make sure your pack doesn't just accumulate stuff over a season... I'll sometimes dig through and find like 5 bars in different spots.
By mid spring, I also ditch the avy pack and switch to a minimalist Pat Ascensionist - still bring shovel & probe, but no dedicated pocket.
But yes, always a puffy, first aid kit and some fix-it stuff.

[LHutz Esq]

What cracks me up when weight weenies are 10-25 lbs over fat.

It's me, I am that guy.

If you are worried about the weight of your probe - have a shit before heading out.

Save weight on your comfort and safety - maybe. But saving weight at the expense of the safety of your partners is kinda a dick move imho. That probe is for your buddy not you.

Skimo races have support people and if your probe breaks someone else's won't.

[Ørion]

Ditching the thermos would be the first move. Reduce number of organizing sacks if you're the type to have everything in their original bag. Don't skimp on safety equiptment.

Double check for redundancies. Backups are good, pointless extras are not. Do you really need an entire bottle of Advil or a full leukotape roll in your FAK, for example?

Check weights within the class of items. Are you carrying a 10 oz "night skiing" headlamp when all you really need is a 1-3oz dawn patrol or GTFO emergency light? Is your multitool a 12oz behemoth that could be replaced by a 5oz skeletool or a mini bit driver with pliers?

If you really want to get serious, the ultralight backpacking community uses https://lighterpack.com/ to inventory their packs and posts links for shakedowns.

[auvgeek]

Maybe this is an oversimplification, but I think it really helps me to think about it as an energy balance instead of "weight."

Aside from necessary rescue/first aid stuff, almost everything in your pack is in there to save energy. Carrying too much food/water is a waste of energy; carrying too little food/water is a waste of energy (aka you rely on burning fat calories instead of ingesting calories). Carrying too many clothes is a waste of energy; carrying too few layers is a waste of energy (being too cold is a HUGE waste of energy).

A thermos is heavy but hot water/tea/electrolyte mix is a great source of energy on a long, cold day. But hot water when I'm already warm does nothing, and I use squishy/foldable "bottles" from my running vest most days.

Carrying an overengineered pack (for the load) is a waste of energy, but a pack that's too light (flimsy suspension) for the load in it is also a waste of energy. I use a frameless pack when I can skin from the trailhead, but I opt for better suspension when I have to carry boots and skis on my pack for a while.

You can often save weight on food and water by starting the day fueled and hydrated. I rarely carry more than a liter of water anymore and instead drink a lot before and after skiing.

Thirded that you need a real shovel and probe.

[f=ma]

If you showed up to the trailhead with a skimo style probe to save 50g, I'd make fun of you and then refuse to ski with you... This is not the place to save weight, nor is there much weight to save since the probe is a small percent of the total weight you're hauling uphill. You need a real >300cm probe and a real avalanche shovel. You can get a carbon probe, but don't get a short skimo probe.

Save weight on skis, skins, bindings, and boots. What's that saying about a pound on your foot?

Agreed, if you're in the PNW, a 300+ probe is pretty much mandatory. We get a lot of snow and need our probes to be as long as possible, imo.

[tang]

I like the energy idea. I also like thinking on space, as well as weight.
Have generally ditched goggles for photochromatic shield glasses that work great short of a full-on blizzard, and can wear all-day from dark at TH to bright mid-day.
Also, more often now just have whippet vs. full axe - for late spring objective stuff.

[rod9301]

I like the energy idea. I also like thinking on space, as well as weight.
Have generally ditched goggles for photochromatic shield glasses that work great short of a full-on blizzard, and can wear all-day from dark at TH to bright mid-day.
Also, more often now just have whippet vs. full axe - for late spring objective stuff.

If you have to climb a couloir on the spring, often you have to alternate plunging the ice axe into the snow vs just using the pick.

I find the ice axe so much more versatile that i stopped using the whippet

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