Weber Canyon Slide- Guided group 1 fatality

**powdork** · 03-13-2023, 10:23 PM

From 4 days ago, March 9
https://utahavalanchecenter.org/avalanche/76444

**Core Shot** · 03-14-2023, 03:41 AM

Ooof. “Guided”.

RIP.

Tourons have so much faith in guides. But there’s no guarantees.
Thing two is getting smarter in snow science. But I’m worried about thing one. It’s a calculated decision. Every time. But it seems easy. Until it isn’t.

**Rudimatt7** · 03-14-2023, 09:12 AM

Tourons as you say, think lift op is a job that lets you ski a ton, not. Being a ‘guide’ in America means you know about the mountains, not. Euro guides from Europe are a different story.

**muted reborn** · 03-14-2023, 09:21 AM

Can you clowns be quiet until the final report comes out? Core shot, you are the definition of a touron - you go out west maybe once a year and live in the midwest. No one cares you got rad for a few seasons -20 years ago- at jackson before moving east and your deep thoughts about an avie 1000 miles away. Rudi, you are indirectly shitting on a guide who killed a client (or maybe the guide died?) without knowing anything about him/her.

**Core Shot** · 03-14-2023, 09:39 AM

Ouch. Mute yourself and get reborn.

It was a small comment about faith in guides vs making your own assessment of snowpack.

And Rudi made a fair point about US vs euro guide certification.

PS. I am a touron. And yes my best days are behind me. But I still like to ski and live another day to ski again. Sorry. Vibes.

**Coño Frío** · 03-15-2023, 08:16 AM

I’ve skied with this operation. They are professional and “know about the mountains”. They haven’t had a fatality in their nearly 3 decades of operation. Tragedies happen in the mountains. In the US. In Europe. In Japan. “Tourons” die, pros die, guides die. It’s not a joke to dunk on. Muted reborn gave you good advice, wait for the final report. Learn it’s lessons.

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**whipski** · 03-15-2023, 08:23 AM

Word

**tgapp** · 03-15-2023, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by muted reborn

Can you clowns be quiet until the final report comes out? Core shot, you are the definition of a touron - you go out west maybe once a year and live in the midwest. No one cares you got rad for a few seasons -20 years ago- at jackson before moving east and your deep thoughts about an avie 1000 miles away. Rudi, you are indirectly shitting on a guide who killed a client (or maybe the guide died?) without knowing anything about him/her.

+100

thanks Muted

RIP to the individual who passed away, and sincere condolences to the guide and outfit - that must be incredibly difficult. jesus.

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**Boissal** · 03-15-2023, 10:59 AM

Elevation, aspect, and terrain features are somewhat reminiscent of the White Snake slide in BCC some years back, also a guided party, also a fatality. Very different snowpack this year, and there's rarely any comparison between what we get in the Wasatch and in the Uintas.
No conclusions to be drawn yet, except maybe that those S faces which I (we??) traditionally regard as safer (given their lower likelihood of developing hoars/surface facets which eventually turn into a persistent weak layer) are in fact not something that can be trusted blindly.

RIP to the victim, and best of luck to those involved as I'm sure there's some mental trauma there to be dealt with.

**powdork** · 03-15-2023, 11:20 AM

Looking at the picture, shadows, and the terrain map, the overall slope angle is SE but that side of the small gully looks to be much more straight east or even slightly ENE.

**zion zig zag** · 03-15-2023, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by muted reborn

Can you clowns be quiet until the final report comes out? Core shot, you are the definition of a touron - you go out west maybe once a year and live in the midwest. No one cares you got rad for a few seasons -20 years ago- at jackson before moving east and your deep thoughts about an avie 1000 miles away. Rudi, you are indirectly shitting on a guide who killed a client (or maybe the guide died?) without knowing anything about him/her.

Originally Posted by Coño Frío

I’ve skied with this operation. They are professional and “know about the mountains”. They haven’t had a fatality in their nearly 3 decades of operation. Tragedies happen in the mountains. In the US. In Europe. In Japan. “Tourons” die, pros die, guides die. It’s not a joke to dunk on. Muted reborn gave you good advice, wait for the final report. Learn it’s lessons.

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Thank you.

**zion zig zag** · 03-15-2023, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Boissal

Elevation, aspect, and terrain features are somewhat reminiscent of the White Snake slide in BCC some years back, also a guided party, also a fatality. Very different snowpack this year, and there's rarely any comparison between what we get in the Wasatch and in the Uintas.
No conclusions to be drawn yet, except maybe that those S faces which I (we??) traditionally regard as safer (given their lower likelihood of developing hoars/surface facets which eventually turn into a persistent weak layer) are in fact not something that can be trusted blindly.

RIP to the victim, and best of luck to those involved as I'm sure there's some mental trauma there to be dealt with.

Agreed, this one is spooky.

**GravityDT** · 03-15-2023, 06:41 PM

That area is pretty wild.... Toured out there a ton during my days in PC in the 90s and early 2000's before the operation took over and we lost one of the better touring zones.
Vibes to All who were out there the other day... RIP

**406** · 03-15-2023, 08:27 PM

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...anche/3186326/

**tele.savalas** · 03-16-2023, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by Coño Frío

I’ve skied with this operation. They are professional and “know about the mountains”. They haven’t had a fatality in their nearly 3 decades of operation. Tragedies happen in the mountains. In the US. In Europe. In Japan. “Tourons” die, pros die, guides die. It’s not a joke to dunk on. Muted reborn gave you good advice, wait for the final report. Learn it’s lessons.

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Fuck PC Powcats. While it’s true they haven’t had a fatality, they certainly have had clients take rides with their “guides” in the past. Mrs. Savalas took a ride after following her guide. Lost skis and partial burial. Thankfully she was uninjured.

Those motjerfuckers were more concerned about bad press than her well being. Not even a phone call to see if she was okay.

Fuck Weston D and Scott H. PCPC quietly swept this under the rug as they were trying to join WBR. They’re still not part of WBR.

/end rant

Condolences to the victim’s family.

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**cbgarrett** · 04-11-2023, 08:17 PM

It only took over a month for the final report.

https://utahavalanchecenter.org/avalanche/78246

**ridge_skier** · 04-11-2023, 09:14 PM

The lack of photos and/or videos in this report compared to previous ones is interesting.

**Bunion 2020** · 04-12-2023, 07:45 AM

How so? The report is informative and complete and tells the story.

The operation is probably going to get sued so they are doing what most companies do when faced with possible litigation.

**goldenboy** · 04-12-2023, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by Bunion 2020

How so? The report is informative and complete and tells the story.

Compared to what the CAIC puts out, that report was lacking. That was my first thought when reading it.

**ridge_skier** · 04-12-2023, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by Bunion 2020

How so? The report is informative and complete and tells the story.

The report on the Pole Canyon avalanche had pictures from multiple angles of the slide path and crown and had two videos; one of which included fly over drone footage of the entire avalanche and debris. This report has one photo, taken from a distance.

Just seems like less documentation than the UAC normally provides on these sorts of reports.

**muted reborn** · 04-12-2023, 09:10 AM

They didn't say if skier 3 or skier 4 died, weird.

**muted reborn** · 04-12-2023, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by goldenboy

Compared to what the CAIC puts out, that report was lacking. That was my first thought when reading it.

usually avie reports from here are very thorough, like this one : https://utahavalanchecenter.org/avalanche/59084

**goldenboy** · 04-12-2023, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by muted reborn

usually avie reports from here are very thorough, like this one : https://utahavalanchecenter.org/avalanche/59084

True. That one is pretty much required reading. Although I can't think of many CAIC reports that seemed as light on info as this Weber Canyon one. As noted above, one photo that barely showed anything, etc. And guide 1 passed a beacon? It wasn't that clear how that happened, IMO. But I guess it shouldn't be too surprising given that this was guided and as Bunion noted, there may be lawsuits.

**crankplank** · 04-12-2023, 11:25 AM

burial times, photos conspicuously absent.

I want more discussion of the actual slide- we got a lot more from the pole canyon event. I only follow the Salt Lake region, where the S facing weak layer had been a forecast discussion point (but not a full PWL forecast item) for some time. I suspect UAC is freaked out as well and staying somewhat mum in addition to playing ball with PCPC to provide with even what weve got here.

Not pointing fingers- this is a terrible event and I can only imagine what the affected parties (bereaved, PCPC, UAC) are going through. Not pretending that I know any better. I just hate that our tendency towards litigation gets in the way of fully transparent and open discussion and learning.