Chargey, Damp, but Surfey Hardpack Ski?

[plugboots]

Pick a ski you like and detune the tails.


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[2FUNKY]

The word surfy is what caused all this because a hard pack ski isn’t surfy. I now understand it as OP wants a hard pack ski that is slarvy, not surfy as surfy would imply flotation.


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Why I originally suggested the skis I did as a couple others. The og cochise recco was pretty funny as well. They suuuuck on hard pack.


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[Muggydude]

Slarvey might be a better word than surfey. I’ve done some reading on the Masterblaster, they actually sound really like what I’m looking for. The J skis fastforward also seems interesting, maybe even better for a hard snow focused ski? Not sure if the 92mm waist or 99mm would end up being better for hardpack/no new snow and spring tahoe days.

Im probably inbetween sizes unfortunately with the 181s and 187s though on both skis (both measure a couple CM short).

Anyone have any insight on Masterblaster vs Fastforwards? Wondering which ski will end up being more stable and better busting through chop. The Masterblaster has more heft but also more rocker it looks like.

[altacoup]

They’re actually great on hard pack, if you slarve them at 40mph. They do suck carving at slow speeds and short radius turns( less than super g size). The reputation for dampeness is over hyped. The defining trait of the og Cochise is lack of side cut. Straight side cut really helps chatter. Hence why early aughts stocklis are unreal. Super damp construction (stockli rep told me the secret is the glue) and minimal side cut. Stance 102 is the modern cochise that carves like a demon.

[mr_pretzel]

They’re actually great on hard pack, if you slarve them at 40mph. They do suck carving at slow speeds and short radius turns( less than super g size). The reputation for dampeness is over hyped. The defining trait of the og Cochise is lack of side cut. Straight side cut really helps chatter. Hence why early aughts stocklis are unreal. Super damp construction (stockli rep told me the secret is the glue) and minimal side cut. Stance 102 is the modern cochise that carves like a demon.

What length have of the stance 102 have you skied?

[altacoup]

I have the 183 for Alta and the 190 for the bird. And I’m a 4frnt not salomon fan boy. Excellent skis. I’d call them the best firm condition comp style ski on the market right now. I know Salomon softened them up for next year. But maybe they’ll be damper

[mr_pretzel]

I have the 183 for Alta and the 190 for the bird. And I’m a 4frnt not salomon fan boy. Excellent skis. I’d call them the best firm condition comp style ski on the market right now. I know Salomon softened them up for next year. But maybe they’ll be damper

Awesome, I’ll have to try a pair, mount on rec?

[enginerd]

I’m new to the kendo 88 but when someone mentioned it here I was surprised it didn’t come to mind in my original post.

I picked it up on a whim as a hard pack ski that would be more fun more of the time that my old fischer World Cups. It’s more forgiving than the m102 and a lot turnier. fun to carve around on. has enough early rise tip and tail that it will break out of a turn whenever you want and has never felt hooky at all. For an 88 it does a lot better in variable than I expected (expectations low).

Don’t think I would call it chargy. Realize I might have made a mistake going for that instead of the Brahma or whatever Head replaced the monster 88 with. Maybe that’s why it didn’t come to mind.


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[jackattack]

I'm shocked no one else has mentioned wrens. Maybe even narrower wrens like the old 96s. I mean, this is exactly the type of conditions and the quality of snow they were made for, right?

I had the wren 88s for a while that were good enough on hardpack. I honestly think the rest of them sucked. They were off piste focused but they would get you across a firm groomer in one piece, sorta. I didn’t spend much time on the 96.

I’m with 2funky. If the ski is surfy, it’s a shit hardpack ski.

[SacTo]

Slarvey might be a better word than surfey. I’ve done some reading on the Masterblaster, they actually sound really like what I’m looking for. The J skis fastforward also seems interesting, maybe even better for a hard snow focused ski? Not sure if the 92mm waist or 99mm would end up being better for hardpack/no new snow and spring tahoe days.

Im probably inbetween sizes unfortunately with the 181s and 187s though on both skis (both measure a couple CM short).

Anyone have any insight on Masterblaster vs Fastforwards? Wondering which ski will end up being more stable and better busting through chop. The Masterblaster has more heft but also more rocker it looks like.

I don’t think you can go wrong with either, size up unless you ski tight trees a bunch. Fastforward will be better early season on firmer snow and cold days. Masterblaster will be better in chop and soft days.

[ApexSkua]

whatever Head replaced the monster 88 with

Haha, yeah about that

[TeleBeaver]

I had the wren 88s for a while that were good enough on hardpack. I honestly think the rest of them sucked. They were off piste focused but they would get you across a firm groomer in one piece, sorta. I didn’t spend much time on the 96.

I’m with 2funky. If the ski is surfy, it’s a shit hardpack ski.

This. I have over 100 days on Wren 96's and they are a directional soft snow shape in a hard snow width. As soon as the tune gets knocked down they are downright scary on true hardpack. Even when they are sharp they barely cut it on the groomed. Easy enough to slarve around in bumps and off piste, but a groomer ski they are not. Just sold them in favor of some moment commander 98s, which have been night and day better in the edge hold department, while still releasing predictably when needed. Much better skis overall. I'm an ON3P fanboy and love the ride but I will stick to the fat soft snow shapes.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Circling back to the HLS r99 AM. It really is what the title asked for if by surfy the op really meant loose. They have great edge hold but you can feather the edges and drift or starve at will while remaining quite “chargey”. I think the key is a more upright progressive style. You can drive the tips but they feel more solid and stable driving with your whole foot.


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[altacoup]

Awesome, I’ll have to try a pair, mount on rec?

I’m +1.5 on both

[SnowMachine]

4FRNT MSP99? They feel like a slightly easier, slightly less chargy M6/M102

I've heard really great things about the MSP's in all widths. A friend was raving about his 107's.

I was making an argument last night for a full Enforcer quiver. I'm pretty sure I could be happy in every condition with a 94, 104, 115 lineup. My 110's are the first ski I've ever had that have me thinking I could ride them every day of the year and not be mad. Sure they are heavy for park riding. Sure they don't float as good as they could. I've now ridden them in all conditions, all over the mountain, and I haven't found a place that they didn't work. Plus I'm a Dad, so I fit right into the Enforcer crowd...

[EWG]

This. I have over 100 days on Wren 96's and they are a directional soft snow shape in a hard snow width. As soon as the tune gets knocked down they are downright scary on true hardpack. Even when they are sharp they barely cut it on the groomed. Easy enough to slarve around in bumps and off piste, but a groomer ski they are not. Just sold them in favor of some moment commander 98s, which have been night and day better in the edge hold department, while still releasing predictably when needed. Much better skis overall. I'm an ON3P fanboy and love the ride but I will stick to the fat soft snow shapes.

But isn't that what's he's looking for? A damp ski to bust through crud, something chargable but slarvable. He's not looking for a edge ripper. Or at least that's how I read it.

Hell I'd almost put the woodsman in this category.

But maybe I misunderstand what OP is after.

[sf]

This. I have over 100 days on Wren 96's and they are a directional soft snow shape in a hard snow width. As soon as the tune gets knocked down they are downright scary on true hardpack. Even when they are sharp they barely cut it on the groomed. Easy enough to slarve around in bumps and off piste, but a groomer ski they are not. Just sold them in favor of some moment commander 98s, which have been night and day better in the edge hold department, while still releasing predictably when needed. Much better skis overall. I'm an ON3P fanboy and love the ride but I will stick to the fat soft snow shapes.

Quoted for truth


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[bodywhomper]

I have a pair of liberty vmt76, that I got from PB (thx again!). They’re now known as the v76. I have them in their longest length, 179. I generally have used them as a “groomer zoomer,” but have found them to be surprisingly more versatile. For me, they’ve been fun in bumps and winter soft snow up to knee deep. I haven’t skied them in Sierra mank. Their slight tip rocker (and apparently their tail construction) allows them to be buttered or slarvy a bit more than the stokli’s I’ve skied with similar dimensions. They don’t seem to like to be run flat at high speed, but are very stable at high speed when on edge. I’ve found that I can easily finesse a fun carve at speed in a radius larger than designed and can easily vary turn radius at high or low speed. I’m 155lbs and making tele turns, meaning I’m not weighing the downhill ski as much as when making alpine turns. I’m not sure how a heavier alpine skier would experience the ski.

http://www.exoticskis.com/forum/defa...?g=posts&m=754

[SoVT Joey]

I just bought a black crows orb. It’s supposed to do all of these things. I’ll report back after I get them.

[Duffman]

I've heard really great things about the MSP's in all widths. A friend was raving about his 107's.

I was making an argument last night for a full Enforcer quiver. I'm pretty sure I could be happy in every condition with a 94, 104, 115 lineup. My 110's are the first ski I've ever had that have me thinking I could ride them every day of the year and not be mad. Sure they are heavy for park riding. Sure they don't float as good as they could. I've now ridden them in all conditions, all over the mountain, and I haven't found a place that they didn't work. Plus I'm a Dad, so I fit right into the Enforcer crowd...

Ha , Enforcers, the Dad Rock of the Mountains. Each purchase comes with free tickets to a Foo Fighters show 🤣

Everyone I know says similar things about the 110. I've considered a similar quiver but my 94 as my EC / hardpack ripper and my Praxis Q on the fat end instead of the 115 What gives me pause is I love the Q so much in any legit depth snow that I don't think I really need the 110s pow performance. Maybe the 104 free or Unleashed 108 instead. Or maybe I should just stop trying to buy skis and deal w the big 94 to 118 gap

[lrn2swim]

I'm shocked no one else has mentioned wrens. Maybe even narrower wrens like the old 96s. I mean, this is exactly the type of conditions and the quality of snow they were made for, right?

No clue, they're exactly what everyone is looking for here. They absolutely rip hardpack and float and slide great when needed. My favorite all mountain ski of all time no doubt.

This. I have over 100 days on Wren 96's.

Ti's or no? My 102tis have miles better grip than the Wrens I've been on without metal. Way more damp too. So much so they're the most narrow ski I own now.

[SacTo]

I just bought a black crows orb. It’s supposed to do all of these things. I’ll report back after I get them.

You been on the Serpo yet?
Skimonster gushes about them.

[SoVT Joey]

You been on the Serpo yet?
Skimonster gushes about them.

ya, they were too soft and swervy, just didn’t mesh well with them, too much rocker, not as much as the justis, but the orb is supposed to follow the Corvus more in rocker profile, so much flatter. Corvus is my DD so this should compliment well I hope.

my buddy skis the justis and the serpo though and loves them both. So it’s probably something to do with me more then the skis, they don’t like to be driven as hard as I’d like.

[Robik]

ya, they were too soft and swervy, just didn’t mesh well with them, too much rocker, not as much as the justis, but the orb is supposed to follow the Corvus more in rocker profile, so much flatter. Corvus is my DD so this should compliment well I hope.

my buddy skis the justis and the serpo though and loves them both. So it’s probably something to do with me more then the skis, they don’t like to be driven as hard as I’d like.

It sucks that Black Crows discontinued Daemon

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[SoVT Joey]

It sucks that Black Crows discontinued Daemon

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ya no kidding. I feel like that’s what I keep chasing for a low tide tool.