Chargey, Damp, but Surfey Hardpack Ski?

[TeleBeaver]

Ti's or no? My 102tis have miles better grip than the Wrens I've been on without metal. Way more damp too. So much so they're the most narrow ski I own now.

Non-ti, I always wanted to try the 96ti, could also have been the ticket for me, but the reduced tip rocker/splay of the commanders was calling my name. If the 96ti was still made or more common to find used I might have tried them. Also I'm on 188 commanders vs 184 wrens. The wrens never lacked in stability though, just grip.

[Self Jupiter]

ya no kidding. I feel like that’s what I keep chasing for a low tide tool.

Sent you a pm

[54-46]

ya no kidding. I feel like that’s what I keep chasing for a low tide tool.

I picked up a pair of NOS 188.7 Daemons and have been really enjoying them.


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[Muggydude]

So I got a really good demo day in on Saturday at Squaw. Conditions were pretty perfect for a hard-snow demo day, cold refrozen and icy groomers, bumps, and crud in the morning, got a little looser and softer as the day heated up. Later afternoon a bit of slush. Got both icey bumps and groomers, and softer cut up variable and groomers on most runs. Was mostly skiing red dog and Far East, I got the Mantras over to other parts of the mountain too. As a reminder, I'm 5'10, stepped on the scale this morning at 215lbs, probably in the best skiing shape I've ever been in (more of a linebacker build).



I’ll give a little run-down on all the skis I tried (in vague order of least favorite to best). I didn’t get a ton of time on most of the skis, as I ended up focusing on the Volkls at the end.

186 Rossignol Sender 94ti: Just kind of meh ski to me. Did well everywhere, reasonably damp, I could ski tighter bumps decently and get good cares in. I felt in-between sizes on these. I swapped them out after 1 run.

186 Nordica Experience 94: Felt similar to the Senders, I felt in between sizes and the 186s were likely too long. Damp but didn’t like the tail or maneuverability.

184 Vokl Kendos: Very lively and quick, but not too stable and got pushed around and chattery a lot more than I expected. Surprised they got deflected as much as they did. Energetic and had good pop – overall mainly just disappointed that they seemed to get deflected as much as they did, and didn’t do as good a job as damping out bad snow as their bigger brothers.

K2 Mindebender 89TI 182cm: This was an interesting ski. They were surprisingly loose, particularly the uphill ski felt like it wanted to wander. They were damp though and could carve well if you pushed the shovels hard. Really good bumps and tree ski, maybe one of the most maneuverable skis of the day. These struck me as a ski a lot of intermediate skiers would really love.

Rossignol Black Ops 98 182cm: These were one of the pleasant surprises of the day. Super fun ski, very quick and able to pivot, smear on a dime, or make any turn shape. They also carved well and were a very intuitive bumps ski. Main knock was they still were in a different class (step down) and got deflected in hard crud and couldn’t hold an edge as well as other ski on Icey patches. I think for anything soft (including warm spring snow) these would be an amazing ski for bumps, trees, and all over the mountain – more soft-snow oriented than the quiver spot I’m trying to fill.

Blizzard Bonafide 97 183cm: Really nice ski. Kind of felt like a Cadillac, smooth suspension, carved very well, could bust through crud with ease. Predictable, locked in tail feeling. Did not have the “special sauce” that the Volkls below had though, and I think they would be a more tiring ski by the end of the day. Just not as nimble or exciting.

Salomon stance 96 182: These were also a surprise ski in the top 3: They were very quick edge to edge, could release the tails very well when desired, yet still carved and charged hard on icey sections and chunky crud. Quick in bumps. Did well at all speeds, allowed multiple turn shapes. Quite damp and good suspension. Overall, just a great all-rounder. Not the most damp/crud bustable, or the quickest ski I tested – but a good balance of everything. Little more forgiving than the Mantras. These can be found on sale pretty cheap, I’m tempted to grab these. Overall, just a great all-arounder that seemed to do everything well and never surprised me. Little more forgiving than the M6 and M102.


Side note: I got on My Piste Jibs the following day at Alpine, and was reminded both why I love them, and why I’m looking for a ski with metal haha. On the really icy, frozen chunk snow, chalk, and groomers (which there was a lot of that day, with a couple inches of heavy wet snow on top) – the lack of metal and a long effective edge was noticeable and I felt the imperfections. As the day progressed and got softer, the skis really started to shine. Just so fast, pivoty, and smearable, yet have not real speed limit to speak of, and kill it in the trees and steeps. Smoother and/or softer groomers and they kill it mopping down the hill. End of the day soft chop they also are sweet skis to just mob down the line. So in short, as long as you’re not expecting them to be a metal layup carving/variable ski - they rock.

[Muggydude]

Now on to the main course:

Volkl Mantra M6 184cm: Really fantastic ski. Live up to the hype. Very nimble and quick edge to edge, seemed like they had just the right ability to release the tails, yet they still railed on groomers and through crud. Really nice intuitive bump ski. Damp, had a good energetic feel. They definitely wanted you to drive the tips, and were really good when you were going fast and driving the shovels (maybe this is the 3D sidecut)? Hard feeling to describe, but just felt like I had a lot of control being on the front half of the ski. No real speed limit that I found. A little forgiving if you got a little more centered, but definitely kicked your ass a bit if you were backseat. I did find that on icey or hard chunk and crud, that they did not damp out the snow as well as the M102 and were not as confidence inspiring. Overall, an athletic ski that wants to perform, but is surprisingly accessible for how confident inspiring it is.

Volkl M102 184cm: Man, I’m really having a hard time deciding between the M6 and M102. They ski quite similarly, but I was actually pretty surprised at the difference the two seemingly had on the hill. Much more than a 6mm waist difference would imply. The M102s are definitely a powerhouse, they want to ski fast. I read something in a review that these are not the ski for you if you have to think about every turn you’re going to make, and I agree – they reward a fast and intuitive ski flow – the harder you push them and the faster you go, the better they feel and more maneuverable they get. The M6 as the same way, but certainly more forgiving. I felt the tail more on the M102, and if I wasn’t driving the shovels – the tail didn’t release quite as well (or if I got back seat, would really remind me it was there). Both skis definitely reward powerful/athletic (and heavy) skiers, I think partially that’s why I got along so well with them. The big “Wow” factor for the 102 was how hard they carved and busted through crud, ice, and shit snow. Full speed send, just didn’t care about what were in their way. The suspension and dampness was unmatched, yet could dump speed and make quick changes in direction if you’re driving them. I’d almost describe these as a 1000HP Trophy truck. Big, with a ton of muscle and mass, but also maneuverable and able to go over just about everything.

So overall, I’m pretty torn. I loved the M102s and how they dealt with shit snow. Just didn’t care and busted though and over everything – really smoothed out crud. Pretty amazing how quick and maneuverable they were given my previous sentence. Hold an edge super well and gave me the biggest shit eating grin after full speed runs carving through chop and cut up groomers. Downside – tail didn’t want to release quite as easily as the M6s, and not as quick edge to edge or in the bumps. The M6 overall would probably be more versatile for trees and steep bumps, and forgiving when
I’m not 100% on my game or at the end of the day (or early season when I’m out of shape haha). The M102 seems like it would force me to be a better skier and have great technique. If I do get the M102, I’m hoping that a little tail detuning might help the tail release easier and be less grabby, which might be my only real complaint from the demo. As a side not, whoever is in charge of the Topsheet graphics at Volkl needs to be fired. Most butt ugly skis I’ve ever been on. Germans I guess…

I really wish I had a chance to demo some J Skis Masterblasters in 181 and 187cm. The 187cm measures 184.5cm, vs the 183.2cm M102s – so it seems like the longer MB length might be more equivalent. The blister review and others I’ve read just make it seem like a really fun playful ski that’s also very heavy and damp, which seems like I’d get along with them well.


Anyone have time on Mantras and Masterblasters who’d care to comment?

[2FUNKY]

Excellent reviews muggydood! Based on your two likes you should try to get on the HL R99 Comp. Skied mine yesterday in the exact conditions you are wanting and they rule.


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[Bandit Man]

Now on to the main course:

So overall, I’m pretty torn. I loved the M102s and how they dealt with shit snow. Just didn’t care and busted though and over everything – really smoothed out crud. Pretty amazing how quick and maneuverable they were given my previous sentence. Hold an edge super well and gave me the biggest shit eating grin after full speed runs carving through chop and cut up groomers. Downside – tail didn’t want to release quite as easily as the M6s, and not as quick edge to edge or in the bumps. The M6 overall would probably be more versatile for trees and steep bumps, and forgiving when
I’m not 100% on my game or at the end of the day (or early season when I’m out of shape haha). The M102 seems like it would force me to be a better skier and have great technique. If I do get the M102, I’m hoping that a little tail detuning might help the tail release easier and be less grabby, which might be my only real complaint from the demo.

The newest M102 is just a little more all the way around vs the M6. Really cannot go wrong with either. The versatility and quickness of the M6 can make you almost giddy. My buddy tried the original 191 M102 and found it to be a little much. He recently bought some 191 M6’s and couldn’t be happier.

Agree with detuning the tails a bit more. It should give you the feel you are after. Also, if you haven’t tried the K108 yet, add that to your list. It has a slightly shorter tail and I feel it’s even easier to slide around and scrub speed with.

All those skis are excellent. Just pick the flavor that fits your style best.

[MD12]

For a one ski quiver the m102 is hard to beat. If I only had one ski, m102 would be it without a doubt. M6 might be second choice.

[kootenayskier]

Ideal Spring conditions lately: bluebird, windless, solid freeze-up overnight, softening predictably through the day. From frozen cord to thick schmoo, my new 184cm M6s seem impossibly versatile, pretty much faultless.

[Merlyn]

I couldn’t decide between the M6 and M102. So I own both. Gun to my head? M6. I think.

[Muggydude]

I couldn’t decide between the M6 and M102. So I own both. Gun to my head? M6. I think.

Do you think the 102 is significantly stabler in chop? Or the M6 significantly easier in bumps and tight trees?

Not sure which has more trade offs. Or if I just need to detune the tails of the 102 a bit and it’ll be perfect

[MD12]

Do you think the 102 is significantly stabler in chop? Or the M6 significantly easier in bumps and tight trees?

Not sure which has more trade offs. Or if I just need to detune the tails of the 102 a bit and it’ll be perfect

I find the m102 significantly more stable in chop. Tips don’t get knocked around at all.

Detune and sharpen the 102 for the conditions and how you’re skiing that day. It makes a massive amount of difference.

[Djongo Unchained]

Do you think the 102 is significantly stabler in chop? Or the M6 significantly easier in bumps and tight trees?

Not sure which has more trade offs. Or if I just need to detune the tails of the 102 a bit and it’ll be perfect

I found the m102's to be significantly easier in bumps and tight trees than they should be.

I found the M6's to be significantly more stable in chop than they should be.

102's punch down and the m6's punch above their class. Both benefit from the extra skillset.